The Origins of Christianity

Originally posted by MagnumOpus
In case you find yourself caugt in the cult like organized church, there is help in these words of advice:

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freethought.mbdojo.com...
Is Christianity a Cult?

1) Probably, you would say that members of a cult have lost the ability to think for themselves. They abandon rational, critical thinking. (Most normal people would not accept the idea of salvation in the tail of a comet.) Now, consider the claims of the bible- walking on water, parting of the Red Sea, sticks to snakes, Jonah and the whale, Noah and the Ark, etc. Do people accept these things without question or critical thinking? They most certainly do!

2) You would probably say that they do not have any thoughts that are different from their leadership. Now, do most Christians hold wildly different viewpoints from their leaders? No.

3) You would also say that they do not question what their leaders say, and are willing to do ANYTHING they are told to do for salvation, including the killing of others, or themselves. Most Christians would not question what their minister or priest told them, and they would do anything to secure their salvation, if they were told to do it by their leaders.

4) You would say that they deeply and sincerely believe that they have found the truth, and that they are strongly defensive when they are confronted on areas of their beliefs. This statement applies exactly to all Christians.

5) Also, you know that people who are in cults always deny that they are in a cult...

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You also obviously have no idea about true orthodox Christianity - and are just spewing the same crap floating around.

My Christian church teaches: 1) Question everything. 2) Think for yourself. 3) examine the words of Jesus in the Bible and live them to see if they make a difference or not. Test what you read and are told. Question it, challenge it, try to prove it's not valid as if in a scientific manner. 4) Don't believe everything you read or hear. 5) Don't agree with everything your religious leaders tell you. 6) Don't do Anything told to you unless you have prayed about it and found that that thing is in keeping with God will for your life ( as you understand it)

Nothing is forced, nothing is brainwashed into you.

This is true orthodox Christianity. Most people don't see that but only see the Catholic version or the Protestant version ( which is the same as the Catholic version just in a different wrapper - as all protestant religions sprang out of the Reformation of the Catholic Church.)

Originally posted by Symbiot

P.S. Jesus did exist, but he was actually just a magician hired by the Roman authorities to trick their illiterate slaves into believing in the new religion. Most Roman slaves did not care much for the Roman empire, few people like to be conquered, so they used reverse psychology to trick their illiterate slaves into believing that Rome was against the new religion. The slaves bought it and thought they had won when Rome converted to Christianity.

Mmmm, whilst I agree with much of what you have written, the above PS Paragraph is nonsense.

Fact the Roman Empire under Constantine invented Christianity 300 years after Yeshua ben Yosef (Jesus) died! He was not a 'magician' but a Jewish teacher (Rabbi) who taught the law (Torah).

The Roman Empire (military) became the 'Holy" Roman Empire (Religious and military)! and survived to become the richest organisation to ever exist!

I am currently in the Philippines where the country is indoctrinated with Cathlocism and as usual the people are kept dumbed down, they don't even know much about Jesus!

Like Central & South America the people are kept 'dumbed down' and poor, if they really cared about their flock they could sell anyone of their paintings in the Vatican and feed the starving people of the Philippines for years!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Symbiot

 

Sweet....can you provide some links to back this up?
I'm very interested to know the actual history of the current 'doctrines'.

A really good read on this subject is a book called "The Jesus Mysteries" - by Timothy Freke and Peter Grandy

en.wikipedia.org...

There are other books, but this one is one of the best sourced books on the real development of the Christian religion that's widely available. The best part of it is the bibliography, since it lists a lot of reference material that you can then research for yourself. I counted 229 books in the bibliography, including many that might be tough to find outside of government and academic libraries. Still, the sourcing (the footnoting is really impressive) is worth the cost of the book if you're serious about fully understanding exactly how the Christian church developed from the small Hebrew God-Man Mystery cult that it is based on.

The notion that the Roman Emperor, after the fall of the empire itself, migrated his title into the already available position of Pope is pretty well known within secular world history circles, even if they don't go so far as to publish to that effect. The Roman Senate migrated into the College of Cardinals, and the assortment of Bishops were populated by the ranks of those who would've otherwise occupied governor-type positions if the secular empire had survived. It was a strict caste system, and based on family heritage, as you'd expect. The only thing that changed was that the army was replaced by angels and the generals replaced by saints. Then, for the next 1,000 years, it was the only centralized power source in the western world. Brilliant pivot and the most successful empire of all time.

Originally posted by CB328
Yes, christianity is partly based on Egyptian religions, partly based on paganism, and partly jewish. It's amazing how modern christians don't see how so much of their religion is based on these other ones, like christmas (pagan), Sunday worship(sun god) and of course saying Amen is obviously from the Egyptian Amen-ra.

They do not see it, nor will some ever see it, because to be a Christian you only read (cough!) the Bible, (certain verses only) and believe everything in there is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. (God wrote it) Read around in the religious threads, most of them still think their religion is older that Pagans and it the only path to God, while the others are false and will send you to Hell.
This is Brainwashing 101.

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by CB328
Yes, christianity is partly based on Egyptian religions, partly based on paganism, and partly jewish. It's amazing how modern christians don't see how so much of their religion is based on these other ones, like christmas (pagan), Sunday worship(sun god) and of course saying Amen is obviously from the Egyptian Amen-ra.

They do not see it, nor will some ever see it, because to be a Christian you only read (cough!) the Bible, (certain verses only) and believe everything in there is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. (God wrote it) Read around in the religious threads, most of them still think their religion is older that Pagans and it the only path to God, while the others are false and will send you to Hell.
This is Brainwashing 101.

You really believe that drivel don't you?

Orthodox Christianity has it's services on Saturday, just like the Hebrews..This was changed by Man, again the Romans to separate their new Catholic religion from the true Christian religion the Hebrews and Gentiles followed. After all Christianity is an extension of the Hebrew religion, Not a separate religion. The term Amen may be similar to the Egyptian word and that makes perfect since because Moses, was a high priest of the Egyptian religion and had a high standing in the Egyptian government.- He borrowed from the Egyptians liberally in many places when he continued the work Abraham started to further the Hebrew religion. This is because after being enslaved for generations by the Egyptians, these concepts were what the People were used to. It does not mean the Christian religion is The Same as the Egyptian religion.

True Christianity asks it's followers to Not read only certain verses but to also examine other texts that were written and challenge them all in light of what works and doesn't work for your personal spiritual walk.

Again, what your talking about is the Catholic and Protestant form of Christianity, Not the true orthodox Christian church.. seems none of you know anything about the true orthodox church ! Therefore none of your arguments can be valid.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

You really believe that drivel don't you?

I believe what is tangible, what I can see, hear, touch. Moses was not an Israelite, he was a Sumerian, and this is alluded to in the "Sword of Moses." Moses was well schooled in High Egyptian Magick, and I strongly believe Moses was responsible for writing the Qabbala, or Kabbalah.

The so called "enslaved Israelites were in fact disgruntled Egyptians, Mercenary Soldiers under the command of Moses. Remember, they went through the city "well armed," and they "sacked" the city before leaving. The grave site surrounding the Pyramids are those of respected craftsmen, and stone masons, not slaves. And Christianity is not an extension of the Hebrew religion, it is in fact an extension of the Roman Catholic Church, started by Peter, rumor has it his original church still stand beneath St. Peter's Basilica.
Christianity is based on Jesus being the Messiah, and God on Earth, and the Hebrews do not believe this at all, nor do they believe in the Christian Devil. Do your research before making such statements, friend.

reply to post by Hongkongphooey


I suppose the idea that the Roman empire survived in secret as the Catholic Church is debatable, but I've moved away from that idea. Rome itself was constantly changing hands, the upper class members were always fighting for control and emperors were assassinated all the time. Some of them were just plain crazy or even mentally retarded.

So even if Rome did survive as the Church it would still be just as it was, constantly changing hands with no real direction. Connection to any Roman agendas would have been severed long ago in one of the Church's many change overs. Even today I'm sure the Pope is frightened every time he turns out the lights knowing that there are any number of wealthy upper class members gunning for him, all with their own agendas.

"Et tu, Brute?" - Julius Caesar



Edit: If there is anyone on Earth that can truly trust absolutely no one it's the so called powers that be. Well, there is at least one trustworthy person out there, but he's not really on any of their sides.

I want to thank everyone in this thread who has provided links and titles for further reading....

I will check all of them out, and consider my ignorance even further "denied"!
I heart ATS.

Originally posted by autowrench

And Christianity is not an extension of the Hebrew religion, it is in fact an extension of the Roman Catholic Church, started by Peter, rumor has it his original church still stand beneath St. Peter's Basilica.
Christianity is based on Jesus being the Messiah, and God on Earth, and the Hebrews do not believe this at all, nor do they believe in the Christian Devil. Do your research before making such statements, friend.

There is no way Christianity can be an extension of the Roman Catholic Church when we KNOW it was started way before the Romans got involved - by the Hebrew people who saw old testament prophetic fulfilled.

Yes, most Hebrews do not believe the fulfillment of the prophecy but those that did carried on the 2nd incarnation of the Hebrew religion and thus Christianity was born. Peters "church" was NOT in Rome
Peter went on various missionary journeys, with his wife (1 Corinthians 9:5),

Peter began his preaching in Jerusalem, giving the first Christian sermon at Pentecost, after the falling of the Holy Spirit.He undertook a missionary journey to Lydda, Joppa and Caesarea (Acts 9:32-10:2), becoming instrumental in the decision to evangelise the Gentiles (Acts 10). He was present at the Council of Jerusalem, where Paul further argued the case for accepting Gentiles into the Christian community without circumcision. (Acts 10)

He is traditionally given the honor of having founded the christian community in Antioch (Galatians 2:11; early christian writers back this) then made his way to Rome where he assisted and preached to the Christians that were already there. Tradition says he was martyred for his faith while in Rome (and this seems to have been the prediction by Jesus for him in John 21:18-19).

There may have been a building (St. Peters Basilica or what's underneath it) that was associated with Peter in later times after Peters death and after the Roman Government established their bastardized version of Christianity called Catholicism - But during Peters travels while he was alive they did Not have or use public church buildings hey had to meet in secret ! This is purely an invention of the Roman government and Catholic religion. There is No historical documentation to back up the claim Peter was ever in or used such a building.. much less to say that this building was built on his behalf for Him to use as the first Catholic Pope is purely Fantasy.. it's not biblical nor does historical documentation back this up.

They can claim all they want about the possible church ruins under the Basilica because they KNOW it can never be proven.

Remember Peter was even Killed by the Romans for his beliefs.. way before Constantine adopted their form of Christianity called Catholicism, so there is No Way he could have been their Pope !! Constantine wasn't even born yet during the time of Peters life and Christians in Rome had to sneak about meeting in secret because they were being hunted down and murdered by the Roman Government.

It's all made up lies to control the Roman Population through religion.. the Romans saw how popular the idea of Christianity was and they felt it was a threat to their rule.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by CB328
Yes, christianity is partly based on Egyptian religions, partly based on paganism, and partly jewish. It's amazing how modern christians don't see how so much of their religion is based on these other ones, like christmas (pagan), Sunday worship(sun god) and of course saying Amen is obviously from the Egyptian Amen-ra.

They do not see it, nor will some ever see it, because to be a Christian you only read (cough!) the Bible, (certain verses only) and believe everything in there is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. (God wrote it) Read around in the religious threads, most of them still think their religion is older that Pagans and it the only path to God, while the others are false and will send you to Hell.
This is Brainwashing 101.

You really believe that drivel don't you?

Orthodox Christianity has it's services on Saturday, just like the Hebrews..This was changed by Man, again the Romans to separate their new Catholic religion from the true Christian religion the Hebrews and Gentiles followed. After all Christianity is an extension of the Hebrew religion, Not a separate religion. The term Amen may be similar to the Egyptian word and that makes perfect since because Moses, was a high priest of the Egyptian religion and had a high standing in the Egyptian government.- He borrowed from the Egyptians liberally in many places when he continued the work Abraham started to further the Hebrew religion. This is because after being enslaved for generations by the Egyptians, these concepts were what the People were used to. It does not mean the Christian religion is The Same as the Egyptian religion.

True Christianity asks it's followers to Not read only certain verses but to also examine other texts that were written and challenge them all in light of what works and doesn't work for your personal spiritual walk.

Again, what your talking about is the Catholic and Protestant form of Christianity, Not the true orthodox Christian church.. seems none of you know anything about the true orthodox church ! Therefore none of your arguments can be valid.

Unfortunately they do believe the world of lies which are a mile high at this point. They want to believe that the Romans invented the Hebrew Christian religion because it allows them to live comfortably in their lives and to justify never getting down on a bent knee to seek the truth from God Himself. They will believe what their false teachers tell them because it feels good.

So in light of this, they choose to ignore your comments that the entire scripture from start to finish is the religion of the ancient Israelite Hebrews - that "Christians" took the title signifying their acceptance of their Christ.They can't see that Catholicism today is a different religion because it formed out of the Roman Empire that was full of those Israelites and other nations. Catholicism is no different than the religion Jesus denounced time and time again, that of the doctrines of men. The power of the Pharisees = the powers of Pope/Cardinals. They are also happy in their lack of knowledge to believe that the religion of the OT is that of Judaism, and again their love of wickedness keeps them believing lies rather than the truth.

A person confronted with the truth on any matter will do one of two things: 1) stick with the lie because its more comfortable and appealing or 2) accept the truth and conform their mind to it. God is truth, and all those who love truth in their hearts will come to Him. Amen.

reply to post by Cor Leonis

Christianity began on the Day of Pentecost, when for the first time throughout history as we know it, Christ came to live in the believer by means of the gift called holy spirit.

So that has nothing to do with when Jesus told Simon Peter to "Build my Church here, on this Rock"? Catholics believe that Peter was the first Pope,thereby lending legitimacy to the modern day papacy.

Historically speaking, Christianity is a first century spin-off of monotheistic Judaism. The label “Christian” comes from the book of Acts. According to the author of Acts (believed to be Luke), the name was attributed to the “disciples” of this new faith first in Antioch sometime in the middle of the first century.

Many of Christianity's critics, however, contend that Christianity borrowed its beliefs from pagan religions. If one studies and researches the Pagan Religions, one can easily see the correspondences and similarities between the two. The cross was once a Pagan Symbol, and the Pentacle was once a Christian Symbol, for one instance. Churches were build on Ancient power points, where Pagan Temples once stood.

Following his death, many of Jesus' followers claimed that he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. The most influential of these followers were Peter, a disciple who accompanied Jesus during his active ministry, and Paul, who authored over half the New Testament. So, in essence, Peter was the main one crowing of the ascension of his Lord, and he was the one who write a great deal of the story in the first place. A former Roman Soldier.
All roads lead to Rome, Christians, if you want to research your religion.

This is to those who have been watching me:

It would be nice, I suppose, if someone simply asked me, or her for that matter, but instead they choose to watch from the shadows and come up with their own conclusions.

I cannot remember the last time I asked my girlfriend to do something. Never once told her to believe one thing or another, only told her what I believed and she chose to believe it herself, of her own free will.

Not long ago she decided to rake our lawn after it was mowed. I actually told her that it was not necessary as the grass would become fertilizer, but she wanted to collect it for her compost pile. Our neighbor approached her with a consoling voice saying "oh you shouldn't have to do that." She found it odd that he would say that since she already knew she didn't have to, she wanted to. It's nice that the stereotypical "the woman belongs in the kitchen" idea is gone, but I see that the stereotypical "the man belongs in the field" is still around.

On many occasions she becomes annoyed at our current living situation and I tell her that although I feel there is an end she is certainly welcomed to leave whenever she wishes, but she has no desire to return to the world that exists out there.

Sometimes she tells me the things about me that annoy her, but I refrain from telling her the things that annoy me about her because even though they sometimes annoy me I do not want her to change them on my account. I am not a cult leader, she knows full well that she may leave and chooses to stay because I am the only one that refuses to beat her into submission. The only one that accepts who she wants to be. The only one that allows her the freedom to be that which she chooses to be. She stays because I love her and she loves me. She stays because she receives no such love from anywhere else on the planet and it is not because that is what I say, but because that is what she sees.

She tells me there is a gentleman on Facebook whom she believes is stalking her at the behest of others. In the past I have asked her not to jump to conclusions and he's probably just a talkative guy. Lately I've changed my mind on this, but still I do not talk to her about him.

She, herself with her very own eyes, sees the attempts of others to oppress her. I do not see this for her.

For the record, by that definition, Anarchy is the only thing not a cult.

Edit: I ask her to be her own leader. I ask her not to let I or anyone else tell her what to do or who she is. She believes me because she wants to. She believes me because she sees it. She believes that we were meant for each other and I believe the same. I have let her know that she is welcomed to find someone else if she so chooses, but that she at least let me know so that I may realize my mistake in believing that we were meant for each other, she has found no other.

Given our past, you and I, I'm sure you will twist my words, but the truth is she stays because you beat her and I don't.


Oh and I don't travel much because I have nowhere to go, I have no money. Sometimes I take a walk, but for the most part I don't really enjoy walking for the sake of walking, I like to have a destination.

Thanks for being a complete and total jack ass [sarcasm]




Edit: Oh and about that Facebook "friend" of hers. It upsets my girlfriend when he contacts her because she knows, so please stop sending your assassins. It upsets me a bit too, partly because he's an assassin and partly because I have to hear about it every time. I don't have to hear about it, but my girlfriend needs a shoulder to cry on and most of the time I do my best.


Sometimes I need a shoulder to cry on too, but I really only have my own. My girlfriend comforts me too, but I have trouble sharing my pain.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

There may have been a building (St. Peters Basilica or what's underneath it) that was associated with Peter in later times after Peters death and after the Roman Government established their bastardized version of Christianity called Catholicism....

Although it did not begin at a specific point in history like the Protestant denominations, in its long history Roman Catholicism has evolved into a distinctive branch of Christianity with beliefs, practices and organization that differ from both Protestantism and Orthodoxy.

Roman Catholicism is by far the largest Christian group. With more than one billion adherents, Catholics constitute about half of the world's Christians.

source
Who is to say which is true, and which is a bastardized version of Christianity? How can anyone who did not live in the time know what really happened that got this religion thing going so strongly?
And further, the different sects of Christianity fight each other more than the Christians as a whole fight against the Pagans and Atheists. I love it when someone's Ego gets to inflated that they suddenly believe their brand of religious belief is true, and everyone else's is a big fat lie. There are many paths back Home, people. No one faith has the only true path.

I have to agree with the OP's statement regarding the Bible. I have read through countless generally translated ancient documents regarding the creation of the New Testament, the determination of Canon, even the debates regarding the divinity of Jesus or lack there of. Prior to the Catholic church deciding what texts should be included in the New Testament, and set forth what was Canon there were many small groups meeting in individuals homes reading from a great many different books, gospels and texts.

The process for creating the New Testament involved amassing as many of these different texts as possible, then Men (not angels, not apostles, just simple men) determining what went along with their personal ideas of what the rest of mankind should know and what they should never read. While some books were designated as Apocrypha, more historical and less focused on Jesus specifically, were not included in the New Testament, other books such as those designated as the Gnostic Gospels were declared heresy, and it was determined that no man should ever lay eyes on them. These texts they attempted to destroy completely but some still remain. And finally there were some texts that were completely destroyed to prevent man from ever laying eyes on them.

Such a great loss, we have scriptures in which Christ warns his disciples to beware false prophets, and logically the only way to truly protect oneself from being led astray by a false prophet is for one to read and investigate everything passed down and discern the truth for themselves, but how can one expect to fully be able to do so when those "Men" who determined what the New Testament should and should not contain, intentionally destroyed texts that did not follow the direction and beliefs that they determined should be portrayed. What if what was written in those texts was crucially important, but was destroyed because it was not "politically correct" in the minds of those human men who took it into their hands to determine what mankind from that day forward should or should not read or know.

Mary Magdalene was labeled as a prostituted until 1969 and then she wasn't any longer. When the Gnostic gospels brought to light a Gospel of Mary, and a Gospel of Judas the possibility of there being any validity to these Gospels was firmly and strongly denounced by the Church, Catholic and other Christian faiths. The texts did not fall into place smoothly with those texts that Men centuries ago chose to determine how the events of those times should be portrayed. Women were not considered to be worthy of any type of stature or place in the church as men were, their monthly periods made them unclean, childbirth made them unclean..and so forth. The concept of a WOMAN being an apostle of the Lord was simply unthinkable....but then Mary Magdalene carried the label of a prostitute until 1969.

Regarding the Gospel of Judas, if one reads through the accepted Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the order in which they are included in the New Testament, one will find that Judas is not nearly as reviled in the first telling as he grows to be by the last telling, with each telling he becomes more and more "evil". But there is logic to be found in the Gospel of Judas despite the fact that it goes against the image of him that Christians have been taught since the creation of the New Testament. The coming of Jesus was prophesied long before his birth, his life, his message, his death and his resurrection were according to God's plan, if after spreading his word and teaching all that would listen, he eventually quietly died of old age and was resurrected, as opposed to going through the dramatic, painful, horrible death on the cross, and then resurrection, it is less likely that so many would be so moved by his existence and have such faith in him, it is the very act of him going through such pain and suffering to take the sins of man upon himself and offer all a path to salvation through him that has moved so many to place such faith in him.

*continued in next post*

So in consideration of the Gospel of Judas, although it goes against his portrayal in the acceptable Gospels, if considered logically....that Jesus knew it was an important part of God's plan and his message that his death occur as it did to show us the sacrifice God was willing to make for our salvation, it only goes to follow that to ensure that this very important even critical element of His plan take place, he would need one of his apostles to "betray him" and lead his persecutors to where he prayed in those final hours before his arrest.

Now if you were in His position, and knew how critical it was for that "betrayal" occur, who would you choose to act as the betrayer? It would be more logical to choose one who's faith and commitment is so strong he will follow through without question (which is how Judas is portrayed in the Gospel of Judas), than to entrust such a critical act to one whose faith is faltering, is likely fearful about questioning his faith, and who no longer sure in his faith might fail in his task fearful and unsure of himself.

And finally while there are many historical records one can read to get to know what the climate was like around the time of the creation of the New Testament, even including some long and detailed letters and documents written regarding what should be considered Gospel and Canon and what should not, what should constitute heresy and what should not and what changes occurred in the religious environment during those early years after Christianity was legalized in Rome. Knowing that what was chosen to be included in the New Testament initially was exclusively conducted by the Catholic church, and that some texts were completely destroyed in this process based on a monk's decision that no man should ever lay eyes on those texts. I have to question what else is being kept from us, hidden away in the Vatican secret archives. What need is there for Secret Archives when the word of the Lord was meant for everyone.....supposedly.

Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies which were written centuries before the Roman empire.

reply to post by ArmorOfChrist


wait...what????????

reply to post by ArmorOfChrist


Depends on how you look at it. There are no coincidences.

You know when I quit my job I sorta went out with a bit of a bang

Have some fun with it!

reply to post by Symbiot

This is to those who have been watching me:

It would be nice, I suppose, if someone simply asked me, or her for that matter, but instead they choose to watch from the shadows and come up with their own conclusions.
.....

????????

What the hell are you talking about? Is this in the correct forum??