The Origins of Christianity

reply to post by Symbiot


See i never said anything like that, if i did you could easily quote the post.

Originally posted by DavidWillts
reply to post by Symbiot

 

See i never said anything like that, if i did you could easily quote the post.

Really don't care what you or anyone else thinks. I read what I read. Don't believe me? Ask me if I care.

reply to post by Symbiot


Do you care?

reply to post by DavidWillts


Really more of a rhetorical question, but technically it depends on what it is that you are asking if I care. Do I care if you or anyone else believes me? Hmmm...

Well, in one respect I could say yes because I believe that what I say can help those that are beaten down by the traditions of their murderous forefathers. In another respect I could say no because I'm not about to give others the ability to control my actions by manipulating that which I care about.

So yes I care for you and your well being, but no I do not care if you choose to disbelieve me for your ignorance is your own doing. I need not the acceptance of others to be that which I choose to be.

Am I crazy? Really don't care, I like what I am, if you think that's crazy I think you're crazy.

reply to post by Symbiot

So yes I care for you and your well being, but no I do not care if you choose to disbelieve me for your ignorance is your own doing.

So if someone does not believe you they are ignorant? Im going to bookmark this page as I cannot think of a better example of how to show someone what closed mindedness is.

reply to post by DavidWillts


I said what I read was you saying gay sex can result in a child. Is that not true, are you going to tell me that what I know I understood is not what I understood. I know what I understood and neither you or anyone else can tell me otherwise.

Edit: If you believe that I misunderstood what you said then you are welcomed to say so. You could say "this is what I said and here is where I believe you misunderstood me, please allow me to clarify." You do not say such things, instead you choose to call me names and belittle me. I feel like I'm on TV's spin zone here.


Mr. Willts perhaps we should start over because I feel as though we're getting off on the wrong foot here. I already told you what I understood from what you said and that is true as in that's what I understood from your statement. You've asked me to prove that's what you said, but I don't need to prove it because I already know what I heard and what I understood. So I would ask you, did I misunderstand you?

reply to post by Symbiot

I said what I read was you saying gay sex can result in a child.Is that not true, are you going to tell me that what I know I understood is not what I understood. I know what I understood and neither you or anyone else can tell me otherwise.

I know you said that but you can't fault me for your literacy level.

If you believe that I misunderstood what you said then you are welcomed to say so.

I asked you to point out where I said that, and you still have not.

Christianity and/or being a Christian has nothing to do with other religions, paganism, ect... and Christianity certainly did not originate from Egypt, Rome or from the pages of Huckleberry Finn. True the enemy of our souls has won many battles so as to water down truth. He is just pi__ed off because the spiritual war was won when Jesus Christ, God"s SON went to the cross and layed down his life for the sins of all mankind. He was raised from the dead and is preparing a place for those who love him.

Christianity began on the Day of Pentecost, when for the first time throughout history as we know it, Christ came to live in the believer by means of the gift called holy spirit. A true Christian has CHRIST IN them. Having Christ in was impossible prior to the death, burial and ressurection of the Son of God. Without faith in the Son of God it is impossible to please God. If you have the Son then you have the Father as well. Observing or not observing Christmas, Easter, and any other such holidays does not define Christianity. Whether or not a persons sins are washed in the blood of the lamb of God defines whether or not a person is Christian or not. Christianity is not a position obtained by merit. Being a Christian is a gift. One cannot earn their way to heaven. Being saved is by God's mercy and grace which is undeserved favor of God.

Other than the Lord Jesus Christ who's blood was pure blood and who lived a sinless life who's death satisfied the penalty for sin of all, no one else in this world is perfect. We all sin, even believe it or not, the Christian. As long as people continue to judge Christianity by the life of the Christians, they will always come away a little disappointed. I wish I was a better example of a Christian at times and I know I miss the mark many times. But, I still thank God for His Son and for saving me. Salvation comes before perfection and I know He is still working on me.

Originally posted by DavidWillts
I know you said that but you can't fault me for your literacy level.

Again with the name calling rather than trying to clear up any misunderstandings.

I asked you to point out where I said that, and you still have not.

You see I have nothing to prove. What are you asking me to do? You are asking me to prove to myself that which I already know. If you feel that I am mistaken then why don't you prove it to me.

reply to post by Symbiot

Again with the name calling rather than trying to clear up any misunderstandings.

What name did I call you?

How can i clear up any misunderstanding if I don't know what post you misunderstood? So I asked you to post what post of mine it was that you understood me as saying that gay sex can produce children.
So what post is it? Please share, do it now.

Originally posted by DavidWillts
I know you said that but you can't fault me for your literacy level.

You insulted my literacy level, akin to name calling. If you don't see it that way that's fine, but I find such a thing to be related to name calling.

You only mentioned gay sex once in this thread, feel free to scroll around to find it on your own. I'm sure you are capable of reading your own words.

Edit: Mr. Willts, like I said earlier, I am willing to admit if I misunderstood you should you show me that I misunderstood you. Are you willing to say that I misunderstood you and point out where it was that I misunderstood?

Originally posted by Symbiot

Originally posted by DavidWillts
I know you said that but you can't fault me for your literacy level.

You insulted my literacy level, akin to name calling. If you don't see it that way that's fine, but I find such a thing
to be related to name calling.

I did not insult your literacy level. I was just stating a fact, you cannot blame me for your literacy. And furthermore if you feel that it is low you should do something about it and not take out your frustrations on others.

You only mentioned gay sex once in this thread, feel free to scroll around to find it on your own. I'm sure you are capable of reading your own words.

ahh yes here it is

having gay sex does not eliminate one's ability to procreate.

That is true, having gay sex does not eliminate one's ability to procreate. I could provide a video with 2 guys and a fat chick illustrating how this is true but I don't think the mods would appreciate that. But before we move on to such advanced topics like religion and biology i feel that we should take a step back and examine the root of this whole problem which is ignorance.
Without the ability to receive and properly communicate ideas one will remain ignorant as they would be severely limited in the information they can take in.
We should start here
www.gcflearnfree.org...
They are free lessons designed for adults of all ages.
dictionary.reference.com... this will help you understand some of the larger terms that are used.
And once you have done that for a bit we can go back to the topic in the OP so I can continue to pick it a part without having to fork off into comprehension issues.

Good Luck!

reply to post by DavidWillts


You did just insult my literacy level again and then stated that you were stating a fact as if you knew me. I do not know you and you do not know me. So now you are saying things and calling them facts when we know full well they are not. Obviously I can read otherwise I would not be here reading and writing now would I?

So you are under the impression that gay Roman slaves would willingly have sex with women even though they don't like having sex with women? I know a few gay guys and as I understand it they dislike the idea of having sex with a woman as much as I dislike the idea of having sex with a man. No one is gonna make me have sex with a man, it's not my cup of tea.

I can see, though, where a slave might be willing to do such a thing if he were under the impression that he would go to hell if he didn't.

The Op's post proves he knows nothing about true Christianity.

Rome did take advantage of books and letters that were already written by the Hebrews and by New Testament Christians to establish their own form of Christianity - Catholicism - But, Christianity had been in place as an already established religion way before Rome created it's version.

We know this because of historical documents written throughout the ages by non religious peoples or historians who were not employed by the Roman government. We have many years of historical documentation about Christianity and the new religion that started on the day of Pentecost that predate any Christian movement in Rome or any form of Catholicism.

We have historical documents that tell of New Testament happenings that were the fulfillment of prophesies from the Old Testament - again, that predate Roman Catholicism.

The problem is too many people who do not know the differences between Catholicism and orthodox Christianity make the mistake in thinking that Catholicism and orthodox Christianity are one and the same. They are not, in fact, they are worlds apart in doctrine.

You have to understand WHY Rome adopted a form of Christianity suddenly when previously Rome went about persecuting Christians. This had largely to do with the Emperor Constantine who during a battle that he was losing, saw the sign of a cross in the sky. He saw a vision of this cross with a message that said, " In this sign conquer" Constantine took this as a sign from God that if he would adopt Christianity, God would help him come beck from certain defeat and win the war. Well this gave Constantine a second wind and through almost seemingly impossible odds, he came back to win the battle.

Sure the leaders of Rome saw this as a good chance to do some political posturing. Constantine declared that from now on Christians would no longer be persecuted and could worship freely (in Rome). This is what started the ball rolling for the Roman Government to create the new government sanctioned "church" . Rome could not have it's peoples worshiping a Hebrew God - that wasn't going to fly. That would be like Obama suddenly saying the United States new religion would be Muslim ( for example) and everyone had to adopt Allah.

Rome had to twist Christianity into something that would appease the people and at the same time allow them to retain control - both politically and "spiritually". This the Roman Catholic form of Christianity and The Pope was born. Rome would then spread this bastardized form of Christianity through all of Rome and convince the People that this was the official Christian religion - ( and yes, this was done by adopting books and letters to form a "Bible" and establish practices like virgin Mary worship, idolatry through the use of statue worship, crosses, relics, and a whole host of things Catholics do that aren't biblical etc.) Those who practiced the religion before all these shenanigans knew better. Those people would be branded as traitors and heretics and put to death - to stop the truth from getting out.

See Church In History by B. K. Kuiper www.amazon.com...

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I'm really not in the mood to go over your entire post right now, perhaps later.

Let's assume I am wrong and Christians are right. Christ's body was made of bread and we need to beat our children with wooden sticks. God created the entire universe, but only listens to you if you're in a man-made church. God created all people, but only likes the one's that believe in one of the many different man-made religious texts.

God's son said to accept each other, but God only gives riches to those that are exclusive. God said to love thy enemy, but only cares for those that wage war on their enemies. God's son said being humble is quite worth your while, but God only cares for those that seek massive riches.

God said that you will find him in the stones and meadows, not the masonry of houses and castles, but he wants you to follow not natural things, but instead man-made things.

Edit: What's that you say about Christ's body being made of bread? Oh it's a metaphor... Got ya

reply to post by Symbiot

You did just insult my literacy level again and then stated that you were stating a fact as if you knew me.

When you can't understand simple sentences it speaks to your literacy level. That is your doing not mine and please, stop blaming me for your short comings. I am actually trying to help you, did you even check the link?

So now you are saying things and calling them facts when we know full well they are not. Obviously I can read otherwise I would not be here reading and writing now would I?

When you can't understand simple written things it demonstrates a literacy level-FACT.
I never said that you couldn't read i was talking about your literacy level, maybe i can help clear that up as you obviously are misunderstanding me again.

lit·er·a·cy (ltr--s)
n.
1. The condition or quality of being literate, especially the ability to read and write. See Usage Note at

lev·el (lvl)
n.
1.
a. Relative position or rank on a scale:

See? Literacy is not an on/off switch kind of thing. It is measured by levels, i never said that you could not read or write- that would be foolish as you obviously can.

So you are under the impression that gay Roman slaves would willingly have sex with women even though they don't like having sex with women? I know a few gay guys and as I understand it they dislike the idea of having sex with a woman as much as I dislike the idea of having sex with a man. No one is gonna make me have sex with a man, it's not my cup of tea.

Do you know what a slave is?

slave (slv)
n.
1. One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.

Do you think slaves willingly worked in the mines for nothing more than food to survive?
Like I said earlier, lets fix the reading comprehension before we start trying to take on religion.

Originally posted by Symbiot
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

I'm really not in the mood to go over your entire post right now, perhaps later.

How can you debunk something if you refuse to even examine it?

My point is that the title of your thread should be "The Origins of Catholicism" not The Origins of Christianity". Your opening post does nothing to prove or disprove the origins of Christianity - you don't even cover that topic !

If you knew and understood the difference between Catholicism and Christianity, you would see why I say this.

What you are doing is trying to make a point why Christianity is a bunk made up religion - but your not speaking from a position of facts. Unless you have experienced true orthodox Christianity first hand ( not the Catholic kind) you have no ground to stand on. You misconstrue some ideas many people have about Christianity and how it works. (I've read your other posts in this thread) I could tackle them one by one but we'd be here all night. suffice it to say, your opening premise on " the Origins of Christianity" is way off because you lack an understanding of what Christianity really is.. that's the point I'm making.

BTW, the rest of your reply to me had Nothing to do with my post - It's like you didn't even read my post! No wonder people are jumping on you for your literary skills.

I can see that denial is strong here. It's the first stage so just bear with it for now I suppose. I have no need to make any further replies for the time being. I do not mean for my words to hurt, they do for reasons beyond my control. Because of this they seek to hurt me, but I am not hurt.

The truth is the stick with which kiddies are to be beaten. I'm sure it is painful.

In case you find yourself caugt in the cult like organized church, there is help in these words of advice:

======

freethought.mbdojo.com...
Is Christianity a Cult?

1) Probably, you would say that members of a cult have lost the ability to think for themselves. They abandon rational, critical thinking. (Most normal people would not accept the idea of salvation in the tail of a comet.) Now, consider the claims of the bible- walking on water, parting of the Red Sea, sticks to snakes, Jonah and the whale, Noah and the Ark, etc. Do people accept these things without question or critical thinking? They most certainly do!

2) You would probably say that they do not have any thoughts that are different from their leadership. Now, do most Christians hold wildly different viewpoints from their leaders? No.

3) You would also say that they do not question what their leaders say, and are willing to do ANYTHING they are told to do for salvation, including the killing of others, or themselves. Most Christians would not question what their minister or priest told them, and they would do anything to secure their salvation, if they were told to do it by their leaders.

4) You would say that they deeply and sincerely believe that they have found the truth, and that they are strongly defensive when they are confronted on areas of their beliefs. This statement applies exactly to all Christians.

5) Also, you know that people who are in cults always deny that they are in a cult...

-------

So, how does one recover from the Jesus Cult, or any other cult? How does a person heal the wounds of religious abuse? Hopefully, within a caring and understanding new social setting. This can be a family, a support or therapy group, or an organized community such as a secular club or humanist society. It should also be done with patience and the consideration that recovery will take time and effort. The following are some ideas for persons who have walked away from religious abuse and who are on the road to reclaiming their lives.

* Work towards trusting yourself and relying on your own abilities.

* Put your experience down in writing. This will help you to evaluate, understand, and cope with your past involvement in the abusive group.

* Get in touch with other people who have gone through similar experiences, either one-on-one or in a support group.

* Find a hobby or pastime to reinforce a positive sense of accomplishment.

* When floating occurs, firmly remind yourself that the episode was triggered by some stimulus. Remember also that it will pass. Identify the trigger, learn to make a new association, and repeat the new association until it overrides the old one. Talking it over with someone who understands can really help, too.

* Handle decisions, tasks, and relearning of interpersonal skills one step at a time. Don't rush yourself, talk and think things over, and don't be afraid if you make mistakes - we all do!

* Be more willing to help people as you go along. This builds up self-esteems and exercises your problem-solving skills.

* Take a breather from organized religion for about three to nine months, at least. Deal with your questions about religion, ethics, and philosophy in an honest and challenging manner.

Remember, you are no longer a victim but a survivor!

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Most of the world is discoving the deceptive methods of the organized church. There is a reason they could not say the word for their god, as it would distroy the hole game.

Look up Jahve, the god of Jethro, the high Priest of Midian. Moses' father-in-law and the one that taught Moses about Jahve.

Telling folks the name of their god was Jahve would distroy their entire mystery and show them to be nothing more than a pagan cultist group. imho

reply to post by MagnumOpus


When you are letting someone else do your thinking for you and letting them do your speaking for you does it really matter if they are christian or not? I can't see the difference between a fundamentalist copy/pasting the bible and you copy pasting some other dribble.