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Did MI6 'dry clean' this flat to cover up the spy in a bag murder? Not one fingerprint and five...

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posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 05:09 PM

Did MI6 'dry clean' this flat to cover up the spy in a bag murder? Not one fingerprint and five missing hours before police called

It is a phrase now being used frequently in connection with the case of MI6 spy Gareth Williams, whose body was found locked in a sports bag at his home 20 months ago. The question being asked in law enforcement circles is, was the flat where he lived ‘dry-cleaned’ before police even arrived?

Williams was found dead locked inside a North Face holdall in the bath of his flat, pictured

edit on 7-4-2012 by cerebralassassins because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 05:09 PM
Do you all remember this case file, well its been two years down the track and the official word is...well you simply read it above.

Its interesting to see how one closes loose ends or should i say, how they deal with internal issues of that nature. But, sexual or not, i don't buy it, not by a long shot. Lets not forget the other gentleman who was found at the local trash pile some years ago and that still hasn't been made clear how a person based on video footage showing him staggering or in an eradicate behavior ended up how he did. I guess in the u.k. they call it "dry cleaning" kinda of wondering what they call it in the u.s., ummm any takers ?

(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 05:39 PM
Anything like this involving mi5, mi6, 7, gchq, g13 the inc ect ect
Will always be sanitised before the cops are allowed to do their thing
Anything at this level is first a national security matter
Civil security second
For a lot of reasons but usually to protect individuals identities and any security materials hard or soft ( who's prints could be there and do you want them involved in a criminal enquiry that would become public domain )
The us tend to use the word sanitise or white wash
But it's become widely referred to as cillit bang
BANG and the dirt is gone

posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 05:58 PM
Yup, I have always thought that this guy was assassinated by the increment, Group 13, GB 75, X squadron or whatever the heck you want to go calling the guys that are doing the government’s wet work these days. My guess would be that he was going to defect, break the official secrets act in some grand expose or any other number of possibilities right out of a Hollywood blockbuster and “they” killed him for it.

Just like Poor old David Kelly.

Which also means we will never know the truth.

posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 06:16 PM
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Good to see someone knows
But that's 4 different groups
The increment are selected serving personnel
Group 13 are selected NON serving personnel
X squadron is a mix of sbs/SAS/srr ( regular special forces ) selected to operate at lengths independent from a chain of command ( guerilla style )
And gb75 being the ones that foster uprisings/political movements where needed

And then theirs a few more lol
Those Brits eh
They love their sf and mercs lol
Ah the good old British mercenary

posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 06:24 PM
reply to post by Neocrusader

Yup four different groups but nobody really knows what they are but all are very interesting. I find it humorous when Americans talk about the ultra secretive SAD or Gray Fox when we have groups like GB 75 that was set up by none other than David Sterling, according to the myth.

I would love to get into the Special Forces Club in London for just one day lol!

posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 06:35 PM
I suspect the bloke knew too much about something or other. Or possibly he was getting involved with (what his employers might view as) 'inappropriate' people and he was killed by his employers to ensure he kept his mouth shut. As a previous poster said this is similar to the David Kelly case. Killed for trying to expose the corruption and lies of our government. What confuses me about the 'spy in a bag murder' is why leave him in a bag? Was he put in alive and just left to slowly die? And why no obvious cause of death found? I personally think he was killed elsewhere, put in the bag, carried to his flat, then dumped in the bath. Maybe he was killed by enemy spies? The telegraph published an article (in the last few years) saying that the number of Russian spies operating in the UK is now back to cold war levels.

posted on Apr, 7 2012 @ 06:39 PM
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Stirling was a visionary and the vast majority of world special forces can trace their history and lineage to stirlings SAS
But even the Brits say Mossad are the daddy's (mostly due to ct capabilities)
But of all the us's sf that I've had the ........pleasure...... to work with the green berets were the guys
Who incidently make up most of grey fox ( so they say )
As for SAD Never had anything to do with them ( as far as I know )
So could only speculate or relay what I've been told

The sf club in London is more of a museum/tribute
It's open to international members so theres nothing REALLY juicy to see

edit on 7-4-2012 by Neocrusader because: Auto

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 03:33 AM
What sticks out like a sore thumb was the fact that no media on a world scale or perhaps on a national scale other than tabloid outlets is approaching the subject, this also applies to ats members. Perhaps its safer to reply to topics regarding anything but to a government hot potato thread, as i have noticed a shift in the methodology of content type material being presented to ats members. The actual fail safe button so to speak has been pressed across multiple boards when several years ago the fail safe button was a dusty and often forgotten button as true threads that required thought and rational interaction are being systematically avoided for fear of the unknown, or should i say from fear itself.

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 06:57 AM
reply to post by cerebralassassins

Is vetted, screened and censored by the British before it goes to press/reported In the news
Nothing about special forces or the intelegence community is reported without the Brit govs permission
This agreement has been in place ......well I don't know how long exactly but at least 30 years
Infact in .....??......??......2005?......yeah 05
A British news paper ( think it was the sun ) ran a story about a punch up between uk sf members in a night club
In dover ( if memory serves me right )
They got the story from one of the people in the fight
The day the story ran, the sf member was booted out ( f new guy anyway )
And the sun was reprimanded and 'left out the loop' for a few high profile missions and reportable stories as punishment
And generally only report what they are allowed
As it so happens the story that was reported and then printed was inaccurate anyway but meh

With regards to David Kelly ( notice this thread isn't attracting too much attention)
What if he was a lying POS that was bought and paid for by the government that sold the WMD's to Iraq after the 1991 embargo
One of the main countries against the 2003 invasion
Whom also happened to be one of the permenant members of the security council
Already feel like I've said to much haha
Catch me if you can
I'm the gingerbread man

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:13 AM
reply to post by Neocrusader

Basically you’re talking about the DA-Notice regarding Special Forces, it’s important however to point out that this is not legally binding but just something that all news editors in the UK agree to. They probably know however if they were to break the DA-Notice they would probably end up losing many of their connections to the government and are therefore in a sense forced into it. If they do try to break the DA-Notice then the government do have other ways around enforcing them.

I think it’s sad how this thread gets no attention, here we have a British spy who is killed under very suspicious circumstances and nobody on ATS bothers about it. Its not the first time David Kelly is hardly ever mentioned on ATS. And speaking of the DA-Notices I would bet that very few people on ATS know what the Baker Street Robbery was all about and the D-Notice that went along with that. Basically if it doesn’t involve America in some way most on ATS don’t give a dam, it feeds their ignorance.

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:30 AM
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

F***ing love you gumbo

It's nice to see someone that knows his stuff
That's right the DA notice - which very very VERY few know about
But I know what you mean about non American threads ! If only they knew eh !
Although I'm not a yank - or a Brit
To see the bigger picture - you first need to know there is a bigger picture and be willing to step back and look at EVERYTHING
Not just what you THINK is relevant to your country

But I'll admit subjects like the good doctor make me a little nervous
That's why I like the quieter threads lol
I'm not here for stars or flags
I'm here for therapy, to flip 'them' the bird with a smile on my face and to hopefully point a few in the right direction while in disguise as a conspiracy nut lol

Infact a few weeks ago some one posted a thread about government agencies targeting posters for security disclosure posts - with a link to a wanted ats member ( that view own profile link ) so it must have been April fools
Any way the wife - who uses my account viewed that thread clicked on the link
Saw my profile
Totally shat herself and tore me a new one saying "what have you done .......what have you posted need to be carefull..."
I then pointed out the joke and she calmed down lol
So take from that what you will

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:33 AM
Bag wise, I'd do that sort of thing if I were about to take him out of the apartment in front of the neighbors and didn't want them to see. Sticking him in the tub would be to take care of any accidental fluid leaks in the event the bag wasn't totally tight, whilst I cleaned up the apartment.

I might have to leave him if I was about to be caught.

Don't know how the Brits do it, but he might have been leaking info whilst being blackmailed for sexual preferences., so they did him and packaged him for the cops. Or he might have been in mid-abduction by some other countries' personnel and the thing got caught before they could get him away, so they rendered him harmless and unassed the AO.

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:37 AM
reply to post by Bedlam

Yeah ease of movement
Preferably a trolley case ( you know the ones with wheels and a extending handle )
76 kilos is a lot to carry !

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Neocrusader
reply to post by Bedlam

Yeah ease of movement
Preferably a trolley case ( you know the ones with wheels and a extending handle )
76 kilos is a lot to carry !

In town such a thing is far easier to do if you use an ambulance than trying to pack them out in a piece of furniture by "delivery truck men" or in luggage like this. If you have time to plan out the logistics, maybe a day's worth, you rig up a faux ambulance (or borrow the real thing if you're MI5) and show up at the apartment for a bit of the old surprise visit, whack them on the head or shoot them up with something fast acting like the old Versed/etomidate cocktail and toss them on the gurney. The neighbors will even assist, most of the time, like the good folk they are.

Of course, it being a safe house, I'd also suspect one of the neighbors watches for that sort of thing as a side job. Not that that would stop you if you are efficient about it.

Edit to add: there's also the old standby of sticking them in the fridge and taking them out on a dolly
edit on 8-4-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:06 AM
reply to post by Bedlam

lol talking like that scares folk on here lol trust me I know
But your correct about the safe house surveillance
But the problem with using furniture is that when the Feds turn up ( sorry fed generic for authorities )
There's then a large pice of missing furniture leaving outline marks on the wall/flooring
And all this attracts attention especially the ambulance method so as such are only used in certain scenarios where you have control of information and most parties involved

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 02:25 PM
interesting. I have heard of this happening a few times now.

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 02:45 PM

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by Neocrusader

Basically if it doesn’t involve America in some way most on ATS don’t give a dam, it feeds their ignorance.

Unfortunately I do not know much about the subject but love a good cloak and dagger story. I am listening......

I have the feel that many people here on ATS read but do not dare to give comments on politic sensitive subjects....just in case big brother is watching......and reading.

Thx for the thread..

PS..I am from 'Dutchland'

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 05:04 PM
Well, the pros already covered everything I was gonna say. But I will add that some of us are interested in worldwide events, especially in a country we are tied so closely to. Lol some of the comments here remind me of a guy I used to know, used to work private security. Obviously I'm not gonna say too much, but he would often apologize for his morbid sense of humor. It was no big deal to me, as I always had a matter-of-fact way of thinking about certain situations that might require "desperate measures". One thing I never understood, and im sure I can share this without giving up his identity, is he told me when he met some Egyptian merc or military guys, not sure, they were telling him, and he later explained to me, how they would dig a 10-12 foot deep hole, place a horizontal board 5-6 feet down and put a guy on the board, standing on it or maybe tie his feet to it, and then bury him up to his neck, and this was supposed to be some kind of torture. Like it would take days to die, but something about every breath you take, the surrounding dirt would crush your chest and compact further, eventually making it impossible to breath. All the while I'm guessing they would interrogate him, or maybe it was list intended for a painful death... Do any of you pros know anything about this procedure that you would be WILLING to share with me? U2Us are always welcome. I'm just curious because we don't talk anymore, as he's the type to move around without notice so I never know when or if I might see him again, and although he never told me TOO much, our conversations got me interested in the parallel world some of you live in, and the info hidden from the average joes. Goes along with "conspiracy nut" type stuff, but is more of a specialized topic, very hard for a civie like myself to get a hold of. Man, I miss having him around. Even if he was always ultra paranoid about security and ambushed... It made my civilian life a lot more exciting, and since I never had a father, it was cool to have someone who would teach me things, and show me how to "be a man" and how to defend myself. I was always rather timid before, and now I have confidense, and some knowledge that others don't have to help me tip the scales in my favor in a home security or self defense situation. I wish I could say more, but I never screw over any of my sources. In fact some of the details in the above story were fished in a way that doesn't change the story but adds further layers of protection for my friend. Or am I just saying that to confuse any onlookers even further? Maybe I'm just a nutjob who made up the whole thing... Seriously though, I want to know if anyone's heard of this torture?/interrogation? technique. I'm kinda ocd so its just something that's bothered me for a while. I can't stand it when I do not fully understand something. I think the hole was supposed to be dug in the sand, if that makes a difference...

posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 05:07 PM
Reply to post by cerebralassassins

Wet work.

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