Nobel prize winner: "Israel threat to World peace".

It's very sad, actually. The Israeli government propagandizes its citizens severely, going as far as telling them that all gentiles are prejudiced against Jews and want to kill/hurt them. It's all about keeping the victim identity alive, then using "vengeance" as an excuse to engage in hyper-nationalism.

That's the only real connection between Nazism and Zionism; both are hyper-nationalist parties, both justify their crimes by declaring themselves "chosen" or "superior."

Read up on the Israel/Palestine issue before you take sides; it's not exactly black and white, but much blame lies on Israel's shoulders.

reply to post by Suffi

Like the song says "I aint as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was".

And here is the poem.

www.sueddeutsche.de...

Google Translate:

Why I am silent, silent about too long,
what is obvious and in simulations
was practiced, as at the end of survivor
We are footnotes at best.

It is alleged that on the first strike,
of the subjugated by bullies
organized and directed rejoicing
could wipe out people of Iran,
because in the sphere of construction
a bomb is suspected.

But why do I say to myself,
that other country to call by name,
In the years since - though secret -
a growing nuclear capabilities available
but out of control, because no test
accessible?

The general concealment of this fact,
which my silence has subordinated
I feel as burdensome lie
and is forced, the penalty in view,
when it is ignored;
the verdict of "antisemitism" is familiar.

But now, because in my country,
from the very own crime
who are without comparison,
Time to time will be sought and taken to task,
turn and purely commercial basis, albeit
with nimble lip declared as restitution,
another U-boat to Israel
be delivered to the specialty
in it, everything is devastating warheads
there may be direct, where the existence
a single atomic bomb is unproven,
wants to be but as a fear of evidentiary value,
I say what needs to be said.

But why I kept quiet until now?
As I said, my background,
which is never subject to tilgendem flaw
forbid this as a fact distinct truth
the land of Israel, whom I am connected
and wants to stay, be expected.

Why do I say now only
aged and last ink:
The nuclear-armed Israel at risk
the already fragile world peace?
Because it must be said
what tomorrow might be too late;
also because we - as a German loaded enough -
Suppliers could be a crime
that is predictable, which is why our complicity
none of the usual excuses
would pay off.

And yes, I hold not more,
because I was the hypocrisy of the West
'm tired, also is to be hoped
There may be many free of silence
the cause of the apparent danger
to renounce violence and call on
also insist
that unrestricted and permanent control
of Israel's nuclear potential
and the Iranian nuclear facilities
by an international body
is approved by the governments of both countries.

Only then is all, the Israelis and Palestinians
more, all people working in this
region occupied by the delusion
live close to enemies close
and ultimately to help us.

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by KillThePoor

 

I agree with your statement that no government should be run by religion.

Infact, I believe my own religion demands a 'no government' type existence. Governments where men form an organized structure to boss everyone around are generally evil structures rife with corruption.

As does mine to a degree. In my religion there are many warnings about people political. But there are also teachings on how to govern. As societies we must strike the balance, as having governance is essential. Therefore the balance needs to be found, and this becomes a choice of the people on how to govern themselves, usually chosen by the majority.

I don't listen to Nobel Peace Prize Winners. Obama (who bombed more countries than Bush43) and pedophile mass murderer Arafat are 'peace prize' winners. The title means nothing anymore.

Originally posted by SavedOne
The significance of the Nobel has steadily eroded over the years, but when they awarded Obama the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009 they officially tossed out whatever vestiges of prestige the award had left. So the headline might as well read "German Cracker Jack prize winner Günter Grass is in the international spotlight after labeling Israel a “threat to world peace" in his new poem". His opinion is no more important than that of any other Tom, Dick or Harry.

I'd agree with you, but Günter Grass won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1999, so it may be possible that he received his award before those in charge of the Nobel Prizes became corrupted.

Anyway, I agree with him that those who control Israel are certainly a threat to world peace.

Of all the articles I have read regarding this issue this one is my favourite not only because it is realist but it also considers non-biased practicability from all sides namely Germany, Israel, Iran and US to some extent, which are major players in this event. I would request anyone who is interested to once read this article printed by a very reputable source Spiegel.de. I think it is a very thought inspiring article.

A View on Günter Grass. Why We Need an Open Debate on Israel

haha... it's good to see that the world is slowly waking up from their hypnotic comas induced by the 60+ years of jewish propoganda that has been pumped into their heads by the mainstream media/tv.

I could not agree with Günter Grass more.

Israel a 'threat to world peace'. It is amazing - if of course you are a student of history - that in every generation, some Jewish entity, whether that be the "Jewish Bolsheviks" or the "Jewish Capitalist Bankers" are targeted as the cause of the world's miseries.

If people had just a little sense, coupled with a knowledge of political philosophy-science, they would understand that what's going here is not as it's projected to be, but precisely made that way by certain complicit powers.

Does this Nazi (undoubtedly, a character who shares the same Wagnerian-schopenhaurian aversion to the Jewish mentality, a subject of Nazi obsession) care that Iran has threatened Israel? That the founder of it's present political ideology - ayatollah Khomeini - called for Israel to be erased from the annuls of time? A statement repeated by the present prime minister of Iran. Does this bother him? I'm sure this same miscreant would deny the Holocaust ever happened, after all, why should Israel be bothering themselves with veiled threats? With a government that financially supports it's two biggest problems, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza; a government which also commissions the creation of antisemitic movies like "the sabbath hunter". Why should Israel worry that a government such as this is seeking nuclear capabilities? Well, perhaps because such a power in Iran's hands would result in the vaporization of Tel-Aviv-Haifa, effectively destroying the Jewish state, murdering some 3-4 million Jews, and avoiding Arab casualties (who mostly live in the Galilee and Jerusalem area)....

Nobody here worries themselves about this plausible scenario, since, why on earth would Iran commit an offense so egregiously opposed to their interests: Why would they hurt themselves just to destroy the state of Israel and simultaneously kill a few million Jews? Well, hasn't history provided us a precedent for this? Look at Hitler. Towards the end of the war, when the Nazi's decided to open a 2nd front with their operation Barbarossa against the Russians, did they throughout this sordid debacle divert their great resources from their extermination program? NO. Not a single train was diverted - not even to remedy the dearth of resources on the eastern front. On the contrary, everything in the German military apparatus was put into the service of their extermination agenda of the Jewish people. The Nazi's opened a 2nd front - probably for the purpose of conquering the pale of settlement (where some 3 million Jews lived) - DESPITE THE FACT that they had no realistic ability to deal with two fronts. ALL THEY WANTED WAS TO ELIMINATE AS MANY JEWS AS POSSIBLE. This is why Hitler forged political ties with Grand Mufti Haj Amin Al-Husseini: he desired to extend his extermination program into Palestine, right after finishing with the pale of settlement (this being Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria, Romania) The entire German war machine was seemingly for no other purpose than to rid the world of the 'insidious' jews; their war machine went into precarious areas, daftly starting a war with Russia, getting a foot in North Africa (and if the British hadnt stopped them, Germany would have been on the doorsteps of Palestine!) just to enter regions where millions of Jews lived, to efficiently gather them up and send them westward to eastern Poland where they would be turned into soot....and afterward into soap.

So, despite this morbid fact of history, you people honestly believe Iran wouldn't nuke Israel's most populous region and economic heartland? Even though such an act would be extolled throughout the Muslim world? Turning Amadinejad into a beloved figure, executor of Islamic eschatology, and a believable prospect for Imam Mahdi? You think Jews should trust YOUR judgement? I think not.

Fortunately, Israel doesn't and will not bother to consult with us westerners. Us 'westerners' have shown a callous disregard for Jews; we let Hitler butcher Jews throughout the holocaust, even though we became privy to this knowledge as early as 1940; we did 'bermuda conferences', Evian conferences, all to no avail. Just to let matters linger in a dilatory bureaucratic process, probably allowing Hitler to murder more Jews (this is a common political maneuver - see 'filibuster') Even at the end of the war, in 1944 and 1945, the Americans refused to bomb the tracks that brought Jews to Auschwitz - not even when they FLEW OVER THE GODDAMNED REGION would they spare a few bombers for this mission, despite the wheedling of American Jews to do it. So little did they care, and yet were falsely fed this idea of American troops heroically liberating emaciated Jews from their 6 year nightmare when they entered Auschwitz, Berkenau, Treblinka etc.

reply to post by Jameela


Well we are both talking about the same religion. And ofcourse there are teachings about how to govern in Islam, but there is a huge difference between governing oneself (which translates into society governing itself, society agreeing to a certain norm of laws and agreeing to obey by them) to governing through the use of a hierarchical organization, which may have been democratically elected by the majority, but still have a duty to impose and enforce certain laws. At that point, we're talking about a powerful organization which can and will keep society under control for the sake of control, and will be under the mercy of those who are in the higher ranks.

Perhaps such organizations weren't necessary back in the day since the population wasn't large enough to necessitate it. But I'm sure there are ways to develop this governance through minimal government but the ways in which to do this elude me since I'm not into studying politics and governance.

reply to post by dontreally

Originally posted by dontreally
So, despite this morbid fact of history, you people honestly believe Iran wouldn't nuke Israel's most populous region and economic heartland? Even though such an act would be extolled throughout the Muslim world? Turning Amadinejad into a beloved figure, executor of Islamic eschatology, and a believable prospect for Imam Mahdi? You think Jews should trust YOUR judgement? I think not.

edit on 6-4-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

Muslims don't hate Jews, they have no reason to 'rejoice' if Iran decided to attack Israel out of the blue. Everyone in the region knows this would start a catastrophic war, and do not wish this. Iran may bark, but its not alone in doing the barking. Israel barks as well. These two have been at it for a while. But have you seen any other Muslim countries' presidents bang on the pulpit demanding Israel be demolished? Where are you getting your utter nonsense ideas from? A propaganda website? A propaganda news channel? Watch Fox News much?

And just because Iran takes it upon itself to be the heralder of the Mahdi, what makes you think the rest of the Muslim world do so? Sunni's don't even have a 100% faith in the coming of the mahdi since the proof isn't concrete. Shiiates will ofcourse say otherwise.

Has anyone mentioned that Gunter Grass was once a member of the elite Nazi SS?

I reckon not.

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by KillThePoor

 

I agree with your statement that no government should be run by religion.

Infact, I believe my own religion demands a 'no government' type existence. Governments where men form an organized structure to boss everyone around are generally evil structures rife with corruption.

Hi nus
How does this guy fit into your equation?
President of Israel, Shimon Peres - Israel News, Ynetnews
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3479700,00.html - Similarto President of Israel, Shimon Peres - Israel News, Ynetnews

Feb 23, 2011 ... President of Israel, Shimon Peres. A world renowned politician, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize and an accomplished author with a political ...

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Perez was probably one of the most peace loving Israeli president (and PM) in its entire history. Thats why they gave him the peace price in the first place....

reply to post by TXRabbit

in nowhere in the OP's statement as said by Grass did he mention the Jewish faith or it's followers. He mentions Israel. ONLY Israel.

Right, and he should just happen to mention that Israel was a threat right around the time Netanyahu declared Jerusalem as Israel's capitol while the soon to be Pascal sacrifice about to take place on Mt Moriah for the first time in Millenia.

In his past, Grass was a member of Hitler's S.S. Not the Wehrmacht (German ordinary army), but the very organization responsible for the annihilation of the Jews throughout Nazi-occupied lands. Nowadays Grass is a leading radical-leftist in Germany, and across Europe in general. This really shows you what small difference it is for people who hold anti-semitic views (and no, this is not a way to silence criticism. The man served in the S.S!) to switch from national socialism to international socialism. Whatever ideology justifies ridiculous claims, such as that Israel actively seeks to nuclearly destroy the rest of the world, whatever calumny you can spread under the disguise of "not anti-semitic, just 'anti-zionist'", everything is acceptable when bashing the Jews.

So he is against Germany selling submarines to Israel? First of all, that makes him an anti-German as well, since selling this instrument of warfare to Israel is certainly a German interest. Secondly, these submarines are not to be used to nuclearly strike Iran, but rather to counter-attack Iran in case it attacks Israel with nuclear weapons. According to Grass, Israel is supposed to be left without the ability to reciprocate in case Mr. Ahmedinejad decides to rain some nukes on Tel Aviv. These submarines won't be used unless Israel has to respond with The Samson Option after being evaporated and obliterated, not an act of aggression, nor an act of self-defense, but rather an act of honoring the lost state by obliterating the nefarious regime of Iran. Objecting to this action is spitting on the graves of both the holocaust victims who died without the ability to extirpate their murderers with them, and the millions of Israelis (and Arabs as well) who will surely die after Iran assaults Israel. Of course, this means nothing to those by whom the holocaust is viewed in a positive light.

I must concede here that in long-term assessment (observing the internal developments in Israel during the following decades), the purchase is indeed a threat to the world's safety, as a religious Jewish state will obviously misuse its arsenals. However, two counter-points ought to be raised here: first, that the Iranian threat is more immediate, which is what really matters in the end of the day; second, Israel already owns nuclear weapons and an excellent air-force, so adding these submarines to the list of destructive weaponry Israel already owns doesn't seem to make it notably more vicious. If not for the pernicious demographic bomb of Arabs and more preponderantly, religious Jews in Israel, I'd say that I observe no manner in which these weapons could be abused.

Now, I expect a pavlovic response that Israel depends on foreign powers for its own survival. So let me address this affair beforehand: first of all, every nation does in this global village. Second, the USA's "gigantic support" to Israel is 2.7 billions annually, which all go to the IDF, and amount to merely 2% of the Israeli GDP, nothing Israel can't do without. Israel would fare much better without the USA's "support" (bribery). The USA forbids Israel from having an independent economy and military progress, and using its resources to establish deals with nations the US is concerned about, such as China. Third, the fact that the submarines are preserved for The Samson Option only proves that the Israel government doesn't hold apocalyptic aspirations, and this point cannot be overestimated -- as long as Israel remains under a fairly secular leadership, these weapons will not be misused for irrational objectives such as "restoring" the Nonexistent-Deity's "Kingdom" and likewise insane, counter-productive goals.

Grass' interest is to topple the Israeli regime, both for his personal animosity toward it and for indulging himself with the affirmation of his view of the Jewish conflict. And Muslims will not hesitate to pay him for promulgating his views.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I don't listen to Nobel Peace Prize Winners. Obama (who bombed more countries than Bush43) and pedophile mass murderer Arafat are 'peace prize' winners. The title means nothing anymore.

Seriously agree with you.The honor isn't what it used to be because of some of their"winners".Like damaged goods!

reply to post by nusnus

Muslims don't hate Jews, they have no reason to 'rejoice' if Iran decided to attack Israel out of the blue.

Oh really? why don't you peruse one of those 'palestinian media' threads and see for yourself what Muslims think, instead of swallowing the leftist propaganda that Muslims-Arabs are just as tolerant as you or I. Please, do everyone on planet earth this justice, and seek the TRUTH - not what I or someone else has to say. Look it up. What does Syria's or Egypts or Jordans or Irans media have to say about Israel and the Jews. Here's a hint: Jews aren't even allowed to visit, let alone live, in Jordan or Saudi Arabia.

Despite the peace treaty made between Egypt and Israel in 1977 which included as a stipulation Egyptian newspapers to desist from fomenting anti-semitism and anti-zionism in it's newspapers (and these ideas are VERY MUCH conflated) it has continued in breach of the agreement, despite Egypts being rewarded with the entire sinai peninsula and Israel promised nothing but 'assurances' that certain things would be honored - which haven't been.

It is a sad and sorry state of affairs that people can say "muslims don't hate Jews". Simply SEE WHAT THEY'RE NEWSPAPERS SAY ABOUT THEM. Just a few years back an Egyptian soap opera propagated that abominable and long disproved blood libel (and it was investigated by the Ottoman empire after the 1840 damascus blood libel which left 2 Jews dead, and 6 others tortured under interrogation. The Judge ordered that the entire gamut of Jewish literature be investigated to find such a procedure, which of course, wasn't there. The judge ruled that this was a blatant lie and that the Rabbis and Jews who were arrested be released) - where Orthodox Jews apparently kidnap a christian (or in this specialized circumstance, an Arab) child, sacrifice him and use his blood in the making of matzah - this repulsive lie was depicted in a Egyptian soap opera! And you still think this culture doesn't have anything against Jews - just Israel?? Tell me - would it be OK to show such a thing on TV here in the west? Do you have any qualms about that? - Or does this hateful propaganda fall under 'free speech'? If you've read a John Stuart Mill or GWF Hegel, I would hope you understand that free speech and personal liberty has it's limits: you are not allowed to perpetuate lies which could result in the physical harm of others, especially when such have a decided precedence.

. Everyone in the region knows this would start a catastrophic war, and do not wish this.

Where do you get this opinion from? I mentioned Islamic eschatology for a reason. The Hadiths (oral teachings, or sayings of the prophet Mohammad) teach that before the coming of the Imam Mahdi, the Jews will have to be defeated - this is an ISLAMIC TEACHING, followed by both Shi'ite and Sunni tradition. It's also being taught in contemporary Islamic circles that before Islam conquers the world, the land of Palestine will have to be reclaimed from the Jews - not until this is accomplished will Islam succeed in it's universal mission.

Now, the Muslim brotherhood - a theocratic government - is in place in Egypt. Likewise, Iran - a theocratic administration - threatens to erase Israel from the annuls of time. And this supposed 'rhetoric' is supposed to be interpreted innocuously, as not having any relation to their Islamic beliefs? Ah... Don't think so.