Scientists raise energy level at Big Bang machine

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by Nyiah

 

If governments cared as much about food getting to the people that need it, as they do about securing oil, we would have no people that need it.

If the governments in the countries needing help were interested in helping the people there would be no problems. As much as I am happy to have my government helping people in other countries, it's not our problem. It's theirs, and their refusal to install governments that help them is their fault.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
Smashing atoms together to get answers to questions that very few people care about instead of feeding the 1 billion people that are starving is just one of them.

We get it, Buddha man. You're pulling the moral superiority card on us.

Which only begs the question: maybe you should be out feeding a homeless person instead of complaining about the LHC on an internet forum.

Oh, you don't hold yourself to such a standard, that's right

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Our countries are the most powerful on Earth. Our governments dictate the global system. It's up to us to demand they change it.

reply to post by camus154


I'm not morally superior, I've just broken free of my cultural conditioning.

I do my part to affect the people around me in positive ways, and I financially support charities I believe in.

Ad hominem attacks don't make your position correct.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Has science ever solved the problem of poverty? Did the green revolution solve the hunger problem?

Our problems are not going to be solved with new programs they are going to be solved with compassionate hearts.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by camus154

 

I'm not morally superior, I've just broken free of my cultural conditioning.

You mean the conditioning that says, out of all the frivolous things money funds in this world, scientific advancement and knowledge of our very reality is the one you choose to complain about?

You're like the football coach at a high school complaining that the arts programs suck up too much money and should be cut.

And it's not an ad hominem. I call shenigans on your own hypocrisy because...well, because I can. You "do your part" as you so choose. But by your own admission, you're not perfect and you don't pretend to be.

Well, skipper, society and countries do their part as well. All you're doing is pointing at one particular thing that could be sacrificed for the sake of doing more. It's no different than me pointing at the cup of Starbuck's you had or the computer you own and saying, "If you really cared about others, you could have sacrificed those things to feed them."

reply to post by camus154


The cultural conditioning which says human lives on one side of an imaginary border are somehow worth less than those on my side.

Again, and I can't stress this enough, I'm NOT saying scientific discovery is unimportant. I don't think scientific discovery and helping the impoverished are mutually exclusive. All I'm saying is "Lets solve the very real problems of poverty, and human suffering before we solve the theoretical problems of physics." We don't need to do any more research to solve those problems, we just need the will to do it.

I'm not the football coach screaming for funding at the expense of others. I'm the student who's questioning the education system.

I look around and see insanity. We spend trillions on weapons of war, instead of educating our youth or healing the sick. We pour petrochemicals onto food crops, so that we'll have more food to throw away, because the agricultural industry is more concerned with making profit than growing food. We pay athletes millions and teachers peanuts. We idolize entertainers and ridicule the intelligent. We ship wood from North America to China to get turned into sawdust, which we then ship back to North America, because that is more economically viable than making it here. And yes we see a particle accelerator as more valuable for the human race than actual human lives. All these things are insanity to me. Am I crazy or is the system?

If we don't stop doing things that make no sense, because they make economic sense then we are doomed

I concede that I am a hypocrite, that doesn't make my position any less valid however.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
Again, and I can't stress this enough, I'm NOT saying scientific discovery is unimportant. I don't think scientific discovery and helping the impoverished are mutually exclusive.

All I'm saying is "Lets solve the very real problems of poverty, and human suffering before we solve the theoretical problems of physics." We don't need to do any more research to solve those problems, we just need the will to do it.

See if you can spot the contradiction between these two statements.

Look, I agree with you: what with the resources and willpower we DO collectively have, yes, it's utter insanity that such problems like hunger and homelessness still exist. No argument there.

reply to post by camus154


It's a contradiction only because of the limits of my communication skills. I'm saying we need to value both equally. As opposed to what we do now which is give lip service to one and spend billions on the other.

Thanks for the debate my friend.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Our countries are the most powerful on Earth. Our governments dictate the global system. It's up to us to demand they change it.

So you believe we should force them to submit to our moral standards? Interesting. What if they don't want what you decide their morals should be? I guess we invade them and make them like it?

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Has science ever solved the problem of poverty?

Compare poverty in technologically advanced countries (US) to those far less advanced. You tell me if science is "solving" the problem.

Did the green revolution solve the hunger problem?

Look at the above and replace poverty with hunger.

Our problems are not going to be solved with new programs they are going to be solved with compassionate hearts.

That's your opinion, even with compassion without technology you still wont be feeding people. It's also quite possible it will be solved by it being financially smart to solve it, and compassion will never enter into it. Either way, with no technology, no porblems like this will be solved. How do you plan on getting people and food there? Requires technology.

Edit to add: I understand where you are coming from, there is plenty of waste that should be scrapped, I think you just looked for it in the wrong place this time. My IQ is very high, I could be anything I wanted to. I am constantly told by co-workers at the hospital I work at I need to go to med school and become a Dr. My degree is in social work. I only say all that to say that with very few limits on what I could do with my life, I chose a path that makes little to no money, but helps people. I may not see eye to eye with you on everything, but we do share a common desire to help those who haven't the power to help themselves.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Sorry my written communication skills are not very good.

It's up to us to demand that our governments change the system. We do things because they make financial sense and not because they make sense period.

reply to post by Buddha1098


I agree, it is not up to me to demand OTHER people change their government however, it's up to me to demand what I want from my government, and allow others to do the same to theirs. I can't put my beliefs on anyone else.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Agreed.. Be the change you want to see in the world.. It's a platitude but it's accurate.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


We have the technology to get food to everyone who needs it right now. What we lack is the will to do it.

We don't grow food for subsistence. We grow it for profit. As long as agribusiness goal is profit over people we will have hunger..

And the discovery of the Higgs Boson particle, or a unified theory of everything isn't going to change that.

reply to post by Buddha1098


I argue as technology increases the cost associated with feeding less developed nations will decrease. Thus all technologies benefit feeding people.

What if the Super Collider discovered something about particles or light that caused us to come to a new view of "who we are"--- like, let's say, they found out Life is not really 'matter' but Consciousness appearing to be matter and then from that it is like they find that we can 'manifest' 'things with our minds and then that opens up a new world--- that 'economics' and governments become obsolete or 'food' becomes something like 'manna' that just appears from out of the ethers of the light in the mind's eye.

Or that they discover something wherein people must face the fact that 'my self' is not separate from 'your self' ---you know, we then become kinder and love each other as our self.

What if what they learn from the experiments that there is something that "produces" the appearances--- and that the essential acceptance of things as ordinary are soon to be seen as extraordinary. Maybe 'that there is only Light-infomation as the present Awareness that includes "everything".

and that we are not really each 'separate people born in in time'--- and or they find that time is this infinite "now" so then we find out that 'bodies' are made of "light" and are not 'really physical-meat and bones' that "what Is" is all made of Light,s there is nothing outside this total Light. the holographic universe becomes the new fact.

Maybe they discover we have twin selves in another dimension and we don't ever die---or, I don't know--

I am just trying to imagine things that might change the whole foundation of "beliefs" about Life that would change the way we live and understand the world entirely.

Like they discover a completely new "what it is and who we are". Some dynamic that alters 'everything' in respect to civilization and how we think of "our selves". What if it just blows a hole right through the concepts we accept now---and we find a total shift in our view that eliminates any need for governments, for money, for food, for authoritarian religions. what if it makes it clear that we are living under false premises and limited concepts about 'what Reality is.

Yes, like what if this Collider discovers a real Reality beyond what we think is real now--- what if it shows for sure that that what we now believe is not reality, its just an accepted premise and we have it all wrong--- and what they find is so wonderful that we really do create heaven on earth as it was supposed to be --- that we were destined to evolve this way --- and discover the Truth.

maybe? something really good will come from it?

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by BlackProjects

 

Something else...

This project is pure insanity... Not because it's going to destroy the Earth but because it is a colossal waste of energy and money.

Is it too much to ask that we make sure every person on the planet has access to clean water and food before we waste 7.5 billion Euros smashing particles together?

Yes. It is.

Science is an enabler. If you don't do the big science you don't make the big advances.

The majority of problems on the planet are social/political and due to poor human behaviour both individually and collectively. The money spent on the LHC would be swallowed up if given to charity and we would be no further forward.

We need to understand why things have mass. So we can eventually manipulate mass like we manipulate electricity. When we can do that the game is changed forever. The LHC is a step on that road.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

It's up to us to demand that our governments change the system. We do things because they make financial sense and not because they make sense period.

Take a look at the average defense budget of a county and then compare it to the budget science has to work with......