Miss Universe and Transgendered Contestants: A Tricky Social Issue

Originally posted by alfa1

I'd go much furtrher and say that anyone who has ever had any medical intervention, either surgery or hormonal treatment to make them more feminine / attractive / beautiful could never be allowed to enter such a competition.
Basically, its cheating.

You beat me to it.
But hey since society does extol the virtues of the fake beauty might as well let the odd trans try their luck.
Credit where credit is due, not every trans male ends up making a gorgeous female.

reply to post by Partygirl

I think beauty contests are joke-shop in the first place. It's not like the winner gets thrown into a volcano or anything.

reply to post by Suspiria


True!

My friend is the worst tranny ever

However is no longer suicidal and happy which is the most important thing..

They do not see surgery as cheating but as correcting deformities..

The Miss Universe competition is demeaning enough for women as it is. I can't see how having transgendered participants reduces the status of such retarded events.

Surely a good christian would be more concerned over the exploitative nature of the beauty pageant rather than those who choose to enter them.

This is far less controversial than Rene Richards getting to play professional tennis...as a woman...after having a sex change operation - now that was fundamentally unfair...as regardless of the external equipment modifications, she would have still possessed all of the normal (typical) strength/speed advantages that men (on average) have over women.

Luckily, she just wasn't a very good tennis player...

In this case, well, this is just a little silly. Next, cross-dressers will be insisting that they be allowed to enter these women only competitions...because they are being discriminated against. Or how about those men in Thailand who are somehow transformed as they grow so that they are pretty-much female from the waist up - some of them can end up pretty hot looking too.

Let her in...don't let her in...whatever.

reply to post by EvanB


Well no, it's certainly not cheating anything other than the cruelty of feeling born in the wrong body.
The lad I sat next to in RE class is now a strapping middle aged woman but happy, another friend went through it all even though half their face had been left on the pavement in a road accident. Neither of them would be up for contenders in a beauty pageant, but then I suppose neither would I.

I heard about this story a week ago or so. Apparently, the rules/contract she signed did say one needed to be a natural born female. There was later suspicion she was not and once confronted, she admitted she had been born a male and was subsequently ejected from the contest.

I personally do not judge her as a person but I can see how it might be unfair to other contestants. She might have had surgery and all the hormonal therapy in the world but some of her natural masculine physiology may give her an unfair advantage over the others, let's say a higher percentage of lean body mass, for example.

Just like the example someone mentioned above where what if a natural born female entered a transgendered contest? That might not be fair to the other transgender contestants if she has more genuinely feminine and softer features that her transgendered counterparts.

So I say just stick to the rules instead of having to be all PC.

If people were so concerned about tolerance and acceptance I think they'd extend the same courtesy to their own body rather than mangling it and having to survive on hormone treatments.

Originally posted by Firefly_
reply to post by JailTales

 

There are many female-born women who look, act, sound like men. Does that mean they are not real women?

One thing that has always got me about western culture since I was old enough to understand is how its perfectly acceptable for females to adopt male behaviour, appearance, practices etc, but when its the other way around its shameful, disgusting, even evil to some people. Hypocrisy and double standards piss me off no end.

The keyword there is female-born. A female-born woman who might look or act like a man is still a female, as is a male who might look or act like a female.

As for your perceived hypocrisy

It was only last week the BBC had an article highlighting girls raised as boys in Pakistan, putting forward the argument that it's some abuse of human rights and must be stopped.

Can anyone so much as imagine the BBC running a similar article on the many Polynesian boys raised as girls? Not at all. Nobody would dare go near it.

I happen to have nothing against transgender individuals, whether it's a woman who feels a man or vice versa. My only objection is putting someone who isn't imo a female into a female beauty contest.

Maybe it is bigoted of me - though if it is its through unrealised ignorance, rather than any sort of hate or disdain - to believe a transgender man-turned-woman is a legitimate woman, but that's how I feel. I would be lying for the sake of it if I put forward any position other than that.

My only crime is having a different definition of what constitutes a female, it seems

Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by JailTales

 

AND???

Why is that a problem for you?

Have you ever met anyone who is transgender?

I have... And believe me it is not a condition they wish on themselves... Their entire life until transition is hell... Often beaten up, murdered, shunned and disowned by their own families.. Why would they go through that for what in the ignoramus's mind is a mere "sexual perversion"?

Why would they often mutilate their own sexual organs, Bobbit style, if it was just about sex??? It is not..

In fact studies on trans womens brains post mortem have shown that they posses female brains in every way...

Can you imagine the hell of being trapped in the wrong gender?? A fair percentage commit suicide... It can therefore be a fatal condition...

On just a moral level... Why would you stop anyone from their own pursuit of happiness if it does YOU no harm??

Seriously people

GET EDUCATED

DENY IGNORANCE...

I'm not sure how this applies to anything I've said?

Gays and transexuals used to be in the closet, and now that it is more accepted in society is certainly a way to get some "fire and brimstone" weather. I just think they are bringing them out so they can get a head count and recorded for "special" treatment later in FEMA camps. Females can have children, beauty in the creator, and therefore he was not created as a female. Please don't drag(pun intended) this world into your perversions and abominations. Peace! Xenongod

Mutant
mu·tant

adjective
1.
undergoing or resulting from mutation.

noun
2.
a new type of organism produced as the result of mutation.

Mutation

mu·ta·tion
   [myoo-tey-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
Biology .
a.
a sudden departure from the parent type in one or more heritable characteristics, caused by a change in a gene or a chromosome.
b.
an individual, species, or the like, resulting from such a departure.
2.
the act or process of changing.
3.
a change or alteration, as in form or nature.
4.
Phonetics . umlaut.
5.
Linguistics . (in Celtic languages) syntactically determined morphophonemic phenomena that affect initial sounds of words.


they dont even qualify as mutants. they are simply phoney.

its entertaining watching the hippy atheistic crowd bounce back and forth on their positioning with science. When God is the topic you all cower behind science as your end-all-be-all, yet when it doesnt sync up with your liberal hippy "identity" crap you just pretend like it doesnt exist, or no longer applies.

i think ill enter my iguana in the next dog competition.

Ok people. Here I go,

My girlfriend is pre-op transgendered. We have been together for almost 6 years now I have gotten to know the TG community very well and have seen the dificultys these people have gone through just trying to live there lives and be happy, they were born in the wrong bodys!! Simple as that

Transgendered people are NOT ,
Transvestites
Cross dressers
Drag queens

These people were born with the body's that don't match there brains
They have been raped, beaten, mutilated,discriminated against and yes.....murdered!! Just because they are different

Knowing that Can happen to them at any time, why would anybody want to go through a sex change?? Because they are not happy with the body they are liveing with it tears them apart every frigging day they are alive!! A lot of TG s commit suicide at very young ages, the lucky ones have friends and family who accept who they are but a lot are alienated from family and choose to leave this life takeing the chance that they will be reborn in the right body

This contestant should be allowed to compete and now she can

Please be safe people

Originally posted by EvanB
What makes me laugh is that the western world thinks that transgenderism is ubiquitous to the western world and a modern phenomenon...

It is not.. Has been around as long as humans have been around.. It is in fact the west that does not accept transgenders... The native Americans for instance.. They were able to marry and were accepted in the tribes as women.. In India they were even worshiped and had a crude form of sexual reassignment.. Now even in the islamic world transgenders are accepted in society..

But in the so-called all encompassing world of Christianity.. In the religion that states it loves everyone and accepts all... They are shunned... They... As Jesus said" You shut up the Kingdom of God against men... For YOU neither enter YOURSELVES or allow those who are entering in to go in either"...

Hypocrites!

He also said of them"For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness"

He also said"How can you escape the condemnation of hell?"

Before you judge others that God made I suggest you kick your hypocracy to the curb or suffer the fate you judge on these poor people...

edit on 3-4-2012 by EvanB because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-4-2012 by EvanB because: (no reason given)

you seem to be under this notion that Christians believe Trannys are created as such.

it would seem that free-will does not exist in your little God breakdown.

you see, the typical Christian view is that its a choice, and there is nothing inherent or natural to this phenomenon at all.

its sort of like a criminal going before a judge and declaring that he was born a bank robber. it conveniently alleviates any and all uncomfortable responsibilities tied to the decision. and i say decision because it is in every way the result of a choice.


and im sick and tired of people lumping in and comparing LBGT to race/racism. when a black man walks into a room he doesnt have to announce to everyone in the room that he is black for them to see this.

however a gay man does. why is that?

the color of your skin is not a preference. your "sexual identity" is.

lets not kid ourselves, this is not rocket science.

i think all you bigots are just jealous because...

SHE IS PRETTIER THAN YOU.

i dont see how being male-born could POSSIBLY give ANYBODY a leg up in this competition, the sports comparison is ridiculous.

please stop spreading your hate under the guise of religion.

like it has previously been stated, transgendered people have been around for THOUSANDS of years. dont believe me? read the damn kama sutra, maybe it will help you learn things in the bedroom so that you wont feel so THREATENED by anybody who looks better than you.

P.S. my magical invisible man in the sky says your magical invisible man in the sky isnt real, prove me wrong.

I don't have a dog in this fight, as I figure that beauty contests are a useless anachronism at best. However, I can't help but juxtapose the following two posts...am I the only one who connects those dots?

Originally posted by LurkerLegacy
they dont even qualify as mutants. they are simply phoney.
its entertaining watching the hippy atheistic crowd bounce back and forth on their positioning with science. When God is the topic you all cower behind science as your end-all-be-all, yet when it doesnt sync up with your liberal hippy "identity" crap you just pretend like it doesnt exist, or no longer applies.
i think ill enter my iguana in the next dog competition.

Originally posted by viperdave
These people were born with the body's that don't match there brains. They have been raped, beaten, mutilated,discriminated against and yes.....murdered!! Just because they are different

Hatred is an ugly thing to behold, especially when a higher power is invoked.

I agree with the former ruling. Because this is a contest for women, not those who have had enhancements becoming them.

I don't actually endorse any form of beauty pageant however.

I believe very strongly that those who have strong needs to become the opposite sex through permanent means are mostly the opposite sex, and for any who made mistakes, its may not pleasant, however they were sort of going through unpleasant anyway, so I do believe there is a need to be sensitive and responsive to people.

However, making a beauty pagent about who has the best breast enhancement procedure or nose job would be even worse than the whole concept of the beauty pageant to begin with.

If people would work for equality rather than our corrupt system, like the Venus project type, and raise our children/daughters to not do this at all, maybe these pageants can become a thing of the past, the dinosaur days of inequality, exploitation and abuse over.

reply to post by NoAbsolutes


Star for you!!

I have found that most people who hate TG s are shocked that they can actualy be attracted to them

Men get pissed cuz they find them sexually attractive then find out they were born a man and that somehow makes them feel like they are gay and ashamed so they strike out in anger!!

I've seen it first hand!!

Oh and NO TG is going to try to fool you
Into sex! She will allways tell you what she is before anything sexual happends


Be safe people

Ancients use to dress up as women and casterated and cut off their penis. No difference , only now we have modern surgery.

I dont see any problem with this at all. , besides its canada

Everyone's body matches their brain. They developed in the womb together, and if mom did her job the body and brain will be a healthy match. Almost everyone has something about their body they'd like to change. But you accept it as everyone else does. Engaging in body mutilation of any form is a kind of mental defect and these people fail to acknowledge that their mind is their single most powerful tool. Your brain/mind controls your body, not the other way around. Three hundred years ago there were no gender reassignment surgeries so people either had to just accept reality or live a delusional mentally corrupt lifestyle. Some people feel compelled to eat cigarette ashes, others have to count all their beans before they can eat them. But in the end - everybody has the body they are meant to have when they're born. It's just a fact of life and if you truly love yourself you will not mutilate your only important possession.