Explore This Universe or Simulations?

Which would you choose?

I was thinking, it's clear our technological growth curve leads towards two things: exploration of our own universe, and/or exploration of simulated realities. However at our current pace, practical (FTL) exploration appears far in the distance. Computers on the other hand, with the advent of quantum computing & other constant game-changing technologies, will most likely bring simulations before this centuries' end.

With simulated reality, outside observes [players] will be in complete (optional) control over their existence. This means an indestructible 'body', preferable states of consciousness. You would be able to live however many lives, in any time in history, historically accurate; or in a fantasy world. There would also be hubs for "players" to meet, spend time together & plan out adventures of their own preferences --- literally anything the mind can imagine.

This will of course bring many philosophical and ethical dilemmas into play. Whether or not such an existence can be lived without deteriorating. On the fringes you may have the sadist, violent psychopaths, and other head-cases living their realities in a deplorable manner.

So what would you choose, and why?

ah too much effort, i'd rather just chill on my breeze way..enjoy a smoke. let existence take care of itself

reply to post by Raelsatu

Very interesting ive seen a few people discussing such theories recently. However slight note. We have FTL tech now and have for 10+ years. (Black Ops)

Although that doesn't mean the simulation route wouldn't be favoured anyway.

reply to post by Raelsatu


Cool topic Raelsatu.

I think technology like this already exists albeit in a more personal way. It is the mind. Some call it lucid dreaming or astral travel. It is amazing how real it feels and you can act out any fantasy you wish. The mind has an incredible amount of computational power. It creates only what you need for it to be realistic in the lucid dreaming state. Its hard to explain. I suppose what I am saying is that your mind doesn't need to create the whole reality. Just your experience of it. So computational requirements are lower. Kind of like a computer game where you see the mountains off in the distance appear as they come into view. They only need to be there when they are being perceived.

Problem is that it takes a lot of dedication and hard work to master OBE or astral travel. There are aids like binaural beats etc though that can help some people. At some stage the technology will be there which puts you and holds you in that state and it will be far more accessible to everyone. I reckon that would be easier than hooking up to a computer and having to have all that processing power done by the computer. We already have it inbuilt in us so why not leverage that?

So my answer would be in light of the above. I don't think you could really hook up with other people as it is more of an individual thing (having said that, some people claim you can). But right now you can experience all that you seem to want to though lucid dreaming, OBE, astral travel etc. Also why restrict yourself to just one experience. Try them all. Anything you can imagine you can experience as though it is indistinguishable from reality. One night do this. Another night do something else, be someone else.

One thing I often think about though is, if it was so accessible for everyone and it was a lot more exciting than real life surely this would lead to problems in the real world with everyone plugging in and neglecting their real lives. Like zombies hooked up to machines in the real world and just living through their mind only in some fantasy reality. That would be a possible and fairly probable downside.

reply to post by ChopperFan


Thanks for the input; astral projection and lucid dreaming are two subjects of my interest, but unfortunately I'm not the most patient with training. As for the practicality, it does usually take a lot of time to master either of those & you're not actually living in a reality (outside of your mind). We will eventually get to the point where computing power will more than suffice for such explorations, & it will be widespread. Just look at the incredible growth curve of computers since their conception; a smartphone is a supercomputer from a couple decades ago. Perhaps decades from now, we'll be wearing contact lenses with as much computing power as a modern supercomputer.
That's just taking into account classical computers --- quantum models are on their way.

Also, in a simulated reality it's near-impossible to distinguish between whether it's "real" or simulated; this simulated universe can also be filled with other sentient beings, cultures, etc. I have had some quite amazing lucid dreams before, but I still doubt they can be compared to a simulated reality.

reply to post by Raelsatu


Okay cool. Bringing the dynamic of fully living in a simulated reality changes things a bit. Its fascinating really. I am sure if we as a species managed to develop technology to that point we would be well past having to work to survive and your time would be your own to do what you want.

At that point, in real life, things would be unrecognizable from now. So you might not get as many problems by being in a simulated computer reality 100% of the time. Like a plug in matrix type thing where you fully live 100% of your time plugged in. You may be hooked up to tubes to feed your physical body and have all those physical needs taken care of automatically by machines.

It may actually solve some global problems like space, food etc. It may actually be cheaper to live like that as you wouldn’t need a massive house, or even tasty food (you would be eating the best tastiest food in the simulated reality..haha). That’s to say if money even existed at that point.

Your awareness would be fully immersed in the computer. How do you think that would change interactions between people? Would people generally be the same? Maybe the form of communication might be different but do you think fundamental interactions would be that different? Would just the setting be different but fundamental reactions be similar? Or as you say, would there be psychos around everywhere as there really is no consequence for your actions. Would the realities be very self centered or would they be service to others. I suppose you would have everything from one spectrum to the other.

What about having kids? A family? Friends? What if you wanted to be in Ancient Egypt but your friends wanted to be somewhere else? If you could just go wherever you want wherever you want from one minute to the next, how could you keep your group of friends or family together if they could do the same and jump into totally different realities or lives? Maybe you just jump into theirs when you want to see them.

What about different rule sets for different realities. Some you could fly others you couldn’t. The possibilities are endless. Pretty cool.

On the other hand, if as a species we make it to that point, earth may well be a paradise in itself and what would be the attraction of living in a simulated reality rather than actual reality.

Sorry for the long post but it is a fascinating idea. Questions we can only ponder at this stage. It certainly seems very freeing…

reply to post by ChopperFan


I very much enjoy a long post, no need to apologize. It's true there are many factors to include. Lets say humanity can prevail over this modern dilemma of world war, nuclear threats, racial/religious divisions etc; my generation and perhaps the previous are at the 'escape velocity', i.e threshold for biological immortality. This will pose an issue of overpopulation but by then I think that will be solved. Because at that point immortality won't be limited to biological means. You're right there may be a scenario where people live in pods that nourish the physical body while your conscious is hooked into the metaverse; however many might choose to eventually discard their body and completely upload themselves into the system.

The possibilities with individual and collective simulated realities are quite literally limitless. There will of course need to be precautions, preventative measures to assure nobody outside the digiverse can tamper with the technology that sustains your conscious' embodiment. Maybe at this point, once you choose to create your own realities you'll be able to completely self-sustain independently of your original reality; therefore assuring your choice to "exist".

reply to post by Raelsatu

This will of course bring many philosophical and ethical dilemmas into play

Well, for starters, in order for your grey matter to participate, something must keep your physical body going...

Now the ethics...

Ever play an MMORPG? If you have, then you'll realize one basic thing... Most people, while anonymous, and in a setting of no consequences, are absolute jerks!

Personally, I'll take the real world, where consequences force people to behave in polite society.

reply to post by Gazrok


I would also think that you need to keep your body going in order to be alive on "the system".

I also agree regarding your online gaming comments, however in the OP's post above yours, I think if we as a species overcame all of the above issues, then it may not be as much of a problem as would be now. At the moment, humanity as a collective species is very self centered. Which makes sense because in order to survive we have had to be like that. Scarcity has forced us to be like that. If we could plug into the system now, I agree it would be a nightmare. Everyone would be serving their selfish fantasies - with no rules!!

However, in order to beat all of those problems, humanity needs to grow up. In a thousand years, people will have had to learn to get along, really get along. No more division over petty differences. Taking actions to survive really should be a thing of the past. If we as humanity are so grown up, we shouldn't have people starving anywhere on earth etc etc. Basic human survival needs should be taken care of as a given if we get to that advanced point. On a side note, we really should be like that already.

Think of all the discoveries between now and that date in the future when this technology is available. We should know so much more about reality as well as about ourselves. Human awareness or consciousness should be much more evolved than it is now. Imagine if instead of working some meaningless job in order to have money to fund your house and lifestyle, you could concentrate on your passions. If everyone on the planet was doing the same thing imagine what we could achieve.

So to sum up, I think humans really need to learn to get along properly before this cyberspace technology would work. In order to get to that point without annihilating ourselves we will already have needed to get along. So I think one comes before the other really.

That's one angle to look at anyway. The issue is obviously far more complex than that but I think this would be a key ingredient to make it work.

reply to post by Raelsatu


Quite an interesting point about uploading onto the system and leaving your body behind. I haven't really given it serious consideration before. At the moment our western science says it is impossible but who knows really. Have you heard of Thomas Campbell? He has written a book called "My Big TOE". TOE stands for theory of everything.

He is a nuclear physicist who has been exploring altered states of consciousness for over thirty years. It is actually a trilogy of books. It doesn't all come together until the end and he recommends you actually read it again to pick it all up (which I am doing now). But is a really cool book which might be up your alley. I purchased the trilogy all in one book. I think you can find an online pdf as he gives it away for free. I just prefer books.

The basic premise is that consciousness is the fundamental building blocks of reality rather than matter. Under his model, it may be possible to upload to the system as everything is consciousness. Having said that in physical reality we have to adhere to the rule set of physical reality i.e. keep your body alive.

Anyway, really cool book. You may want to check out his website too which is: www.my-big-toe.com/

Anyway, just someone else to look into if you want to and haven't already.