National Debt Out of Control

I remember the days when we were approaching the 500 billion mark and now we sit on the edge of reaching 20 trillion. This is total insanity....we can not go on this way for much longer.

Just reported, the current debt at 16 trillion and if we balanced the budget, it would take 66 years to pay off the debt. Folks, that's over 3 generations. This would be your great, great grandchildren, if you're an adult with children.

What they don't tell you is that we'd have to balance the budget, reduce spending and reduce the size of government for this to be reality. We, at this point, take in approx 2 trillion in revenues and spend well over 3 trillion, borrowing the difference. In order to get this monkey off our backs, we need to reduce spending by well over 1 trillion right now. Nobody has a plan for this, with the exception of Ron Paul, and anything less is a waste of time talking about it.

Reality sucks, but that doesn't mean we ignore it. The day will come soon when no one will lend us money...then the house of cards will fall. When this happens, you'll be wishing we did something as drastic as reduce spending, government and all these radical ideas proposed by "loony types" such as Ron Paul.

I'm not religious, but I pray that we, as the people, come to our senses and at least make our government accountable for their actions and recognise the need of getting our house in order. Regardless of our political beliefs and/or affiliations, one thing we need to come together on is this.

I welcome your comments and ideas, united we stand...divided we fall!

Peace!

Merely balancing the budget does nothing to pay off the existing debt. Not in 66 years, not in 666 years.

We need to reduce government spending to the point of running a large budget surplus. Even with a $500 billion surplus, it would take between 30 and 40 years to pay off the debt.

Now don't even get me started on future debt obligations like social security and medicare that are not even included in these debt numbers.

reply to post by AnonymousCitizen


I totally agree with you. If we allow them to operate at the current rate, we'll never see it balanced let alone reduced. If we don't address it as a whole, it'll never get achieved. There are but a few in our government that want to address it, but they're labeled as loony, belittled and laughed at.

personally i dont think the united states has any intention of paying it back.
If they did then they would be doing everything they can to repay and balance it.

can you imagined america repaying china and making them richer while the USA rations its money?
this is their worst nightmare.

Remember Bush seniors' speech about the new world order? its all coming along nicely.
Total collapse and then out of the ashes the phoenix rises.

reply to post by HereAgainGoneTomorrow


I'm in the UK but things are not much different here. My take on "national debt" is that it doesn't exist! There is politicians debt, after all they are the ones taking out these loans without direct permission of the people! Even if one person doesn't want the product/services that the loans are meant to pay for then THEY are not liable! However if someone did want the services etc they are welcome to take responsibility for the debt.

In my opinion I have made no contract with these people claiming to be the 'government'! What I see is bullies with guns that are extracting money via force! It is no different to the mafia and their protection rackets! Why do people feel they owe this money is my question? Especially future generations! How on earth can they be liable when they were not even born around the time it was borrowed and used? It's ridiculous!

I think they are making these astronomical debts on purpose to enslave people! Look at greece! This is the future for all of us! Whereby the banks will dictate how the countries are run! In effect it will be a worldwide dictatorship via the back door!

What can we do about it? Well my plan is to remove myself from the system! I research about my own health care, I've not had a doctor for the past 12 years! I home educate my children, even my latest edition was born at home unassisted! No midwives or doctors etc! We researched ourselves! We are empowering ourselves! Oh and he has not been 'registered'! We have come up against certain opposition from the 'authorities' due to our decisions and it makes me realize that we are on to something! We've had them tell some really pathetic lies about us and I don't see why else they would do that!

I will not pay TAX! In reality you can not even pay tax! It's an oxymoron! You do not donate your possessions to a thief, do you? The idea that tax is paid makes me laugh! Imagine if instead of protesting everyone just said no! Just refused to work for people that steals off them on behalf of the government! And refused to hand over funds when they are working for themselves!

We need to be radical to be honest else we will stay in this cycle forever! Sorry for the long post! But phew, I feel better now venting that! lol

reply to post by HereAgainGoneTomorrow

now we sit on the edge of reaching 20 trillion.

there is a lot of money like a 30% difference between 15 and 20
build a thread about out of control on honesty

reply to post by rebellender


I take it you failed maths? It is a really easy percentage to work out too! lol The figure you're looking for is 25%. Any way there are many liabilities that are not included in the national debt as others have pointed out!

Besides, is 15 trillion not enough for you? can you even imagine 15 trillion? It's a crazy big number and when you reach something like that it is pointless to argue over another 5 trillion!

they don't have a plan my ass. their plan is to strap this debt on each and everyone of us and pay it by raising taxes to heights never before seen, at least that's my theory.

I don't think it much matters.

If we still have goods and services to offer the world, we'll be okay.

If we still have military might to force the trading of commodities so as to export a portion of our running debt, we'll stay afloat.

These are just running tabs, and since we've got AAA credit, and the institutions are all bought off anyways, there's really not a worry.

The only trouble would be the rest of the world ganging up on us, dropping the petrodolar, and then our military getting stretched thin. That means world war, and the draft.

Until then, the game plays on!

reply to post by unityemissions


So can I ask you, do you think that it is ok to pass on your debt to future generations? Do you think that your grandkids should pay for the goods and services you have used?

Also you realize that the debt is only increasing don't you? So you think there will be no limit? It will just keep going and going then? Also as the debt increases so does the repayments on the interest for these loans?

Do you balance your own budget like this? If you did, what do you think will happen?

Who cares whilst the dollar is the international reserve? Worst comes to worst the US can just default and there won't be much china and saudi could do about it. I don't think the US government has any plans on paying it back.

Originally posted by unityemissions
I don't think it much matters.

If we still have goods and services to offer the world, we'll be okay.

If we still have military might to force the trading of commodities so as to export a portion of our running debt, we'll stay afloat.

These are just running tabs, and since we've got AAA credit, and the institutions are all bought off anyways, there's really not a worry.

The only trouble would be the rest of the world ganging up on us, dropping the petrodolar, and then our military getting stretched thin. That means world war, and the draft.

Until then, the game plays on!

edit on 22-3-2012 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)

Yes, we are sitting on a $16 trillion debt bomb.

The good news is that we also have a growing GDP.

We will grow our way out of this mess starting January 20, 2013.

Originally posted by HereAgainGoneTomorrow
I remember the days when we were approaching the 500 billion mark and now we sit on the edge of reaching 20 trillion. This is total insanity....we can not go on this way for much longer.

Just reported, the current debt at 16 trillion and if we balanced the budget, it would take 66 years to pay off the debt. Folks, that's over 3 generations. This would be your great, great grandchildren, if you're an adult with children.

What they don't tell you is that we'd have to balance the budget, reduce spending and reduce the size of government for this to be reality. We, at this point, take in approx 2 trillion in revenues and spend well over 3 trillion, borrowing the difference. In order to get this monkey off our backs, we need to reduce spending by well over 1 trillion right now. Nobody has a plan for this, with the exception of Ron Paul, and anything less is a waste of time talking about it.

Reality sucks, but that doesn't mean we ignore it. The day will come soon when no one will lend us money...then the house of cards will fall. When this happens, you'll be wishing we did something as drastic as reduce spending, government and all these radical ideas proposed by "loony types" such as Ron Paul.

I'm not religious, but I pray that we, as the people, come to our senses and at least make our government accountable for their actions and recognise the need of getting our house in order. Regardless of our political beliefs and/or affiliations, one thing we need to come together on is this.

I welcome your comments and ideas, united we stand...divided we fall!

Peace!

Part of that debt is intra-governmental . It's around $4.7 trillion right now.

We are buying T-notes from ourselves.

reply to post by michael1983l


So you think that whomever is owed this 15 trillion will just say, okay then, no worries? It's about time people started to face up to reality before it is too late! Who are going to be the losers in all this? Let me give you a hint! The government has underground bases! Do you have a nice secure underground base? What makes it even funnier is that the american tax payers paid for those cosy underground bases!

If I were a tax payer over there I would be outraged! But hey don't worry about it, everything will be fine dude.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by unityemissions

 

So can I ask you, do you think that it is ok to pass on your debt to future generations? Do you think that your grandkids should pay for the goods and services you have used?

You don't seem to understand you're just rehashing news bits without clarity of mind. We've been in debt since the inception of this country. It's how economics works, sane or not. So the debt of previous generations has always been pushed to the next generations. Nearly every country is in debt to each other. Without context these words of yours are meaningless. There's so many more variables to take into considerations when trying to weigh the true value of this debt.

Also you realize that the debt is only increasing don't you? So you think there will be no limit? It will just keep going and going then? Also as the debt increases so does the repayments on the interest for these loans?

Do you balance your own budget like this? If you did, what do you think will happen?

I'm not an idiot. I realize the debt is incrasing. Go look at usdebtclock. com, and switch to the listing by country. Most countries are racking up debt. Look at the percentage of debt/GDP, and also the rate of change. We're not doing that bad.

These numbers are nearly arbitrary at this point. I see people, goods, and services flowing despite the shackling of the abstract monstrosities.

Holy Crap!!!
When did this happen ?
Oh yeah.. 1972. And then a huge chunk from
1980-88, with that crazy spender Reagan.

The number may as well be 16 quadrillion.
I used to get worked up about this but nothing ever happens.

It's a wedge that political operatives use when it suits their agenda.
Then they'll get in office and do the same.
It's the way things operate. Debt is arbitrary.
It's a specter . It's made up of nothing except a weak promise.

All countries have done this and will continue to, forever and ever Amen.
Neither Ron Paul nor JC of Nazereth can do anything about it.
It's by design. I doubt you'll truly have a need to worry about this.
Just ask the Greeks.

reply to post by unityemissions


Oh I understand very well, and I also understand that the buck has to stop somewhere! I'm bright enough to know that when you keep increasing debt and the loan repayments keep increasing eventually you will come to a point where you will no longer be able to keep up with those repayments! It's pretty much basic logic!

It's like people in their private lives, they can have a good job earn a load of money and so take out a big mortgage. Then perhaps they want the latest car. Then the want expensive jewelery etc. They can have multiple cards and loans! They can seem to be doing very well for themselves! But the reality is they are living above their means! Many, many people do this! Eventually they have to stop living like that and budget properly or they continue onto bankruptcy!

I asked you if you run your affairs like that but you didn't answer! See the thing is you have gotten sucked into all the economic mumbo jumbo! You actually think that america is doing well? For real? Let me ask you this, why wouldn't america need bloody loans if they were doing so well? This is pretty basic common sense right? If America was doing so well why aren't they actually saving money?

Okay let me ask you another thing, do you believe that millionaires take out loans? lol They could possibly over the short term to buy a new factory or some other asset but that is good debt! Ie you have something to show for it and it can make you more money! Increasing profitability over the long term! Is that how you see america? They are getting loans to gain assets so that those assets can make them more money in the long run? lol Even though you've already stated that you've always been in debt! (Btw I don't believe that to be true).


Edit: Imagine going to see an economic adviser and saying "Hey, I'm in a boat load of debt and I just keep getting more loans! What should I do" Do you think they will say, "Oh it's ok it's always been like that, if your in trouble just get another loan to pay off the first loan then repeat". Well do you? Really?

reply to post by HereAgainGoneTomorrow


Like many other people I do not understand it that so many countries at the same time have morons for finance ministers. I believe that this is no coincedence, there is something they are not telling us.

It is very easy to hide true meanings and causes of these incredible debts and crisis behind abuse of credit by consumers and flawed morgage deals. Sure there were but I find it hard to believe that all these highly educated economist with Harvard docterates, Phd's and proffesors didn't know what will happen or weren't taken serious when advising the government.

Here in The Netherlands the trouble began more or less when we switched to the euro. One euro was equal to some 2.1 dutch guilders. So when the euro was introduced all wages got cut in half and all goods got cut the same. Ove4r the years everything became more expensive and taxes and insurrances rised while most wages didn't track equally. Ofcourse there is inflation but what happened is ridiculous.

With other words, we got punked with the euro. ....Here in Holland we had just the most beautiful money bills if not among the most beautifull bills in the world. In return we received dull, pale, easy to counterfit and sloppy euro bills.

There was no referendum for the euro transition while many people did not agree or had no chance to think about it. It was shoved down our throat for a purpose. In my opinion the transition to the euro was a way to mislead the population in order to create an enormes amount of money which would be silently syfoned away. After the introduction of the euro several other ways are used by the government to syfon money away.

We too have accumulated an enormes national debt. Nothing compared to the massive -uck-up the US government has created for its citizens but considering the number of inhabitants still not funny.

The Dutch National Debt is a wopping 400 billion euro's and is increasing with 810 euro per second.

Compared to the National Debt of the US we should consider ourselves lucky.

What I do not understand is that every next day is a day as ussual and no immediate actions are taken to stop this all destructing and nation devestating increasing debt. As if the decision makers have decided that all is lost and will keep on spending untill the moment the entire economy will be trapped in an unstoppable downward spiral. Not one of them cares anymore or maybe never did, the only thing that kept them busy was how to make personal profit with their status, to secure their future and probably prepare means to escape when the SHTF.

Anyways....I have a gut feeling there is a global organised money drain going on...for something.

reply to post by mee30


15 divided by 5
5 times 3
5 plus 5 plus 5

20 is a fictitious number

get the story in your story strait and maybe dont make to problem 33.33333333333333% bigger than it already is

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by HereAgainGoneTomorrow

 

Like many other people I do not understand it that so many countries at the same time have morons for finance ministers. I believe that this is no coincedence, there is something they are not telling us.

It is very easy to hide true meanings and causes of these incredible debts and crisis behind abuse of credit by consumers and flawed morgage deals. Sure there were but I find it hard to believe that all these highly educated economist with Harvard docterates, Phd's and proffesors didn't know what will happen or weren't taken serious when advising the government.

Here in The Netherlands the trouble began more or less when we switched to the euro. One euro was equal to some 2.1 dutch guilders. So when the euro was introduced all wages got cut in half and all goods got cut the same. Ove4r the years everything became more expensive and taxes and insurrances rised while most wages didn't track equally. Ofcourse there is inflation but what happened is ridiculous.

With other words, we got punked with the euro. ....Here in Holland we had just the most beautiful money bills if not among the most beautifull bills in the world. In return we received dull, pale, easy to counterfit and sloppy euro bills.

There was no referendum for the euro transition while many people did not agree or had no chance to think about it. It was shoved down our throat for a purpose. In my opinion the transition to the euro was a way to mislead the population in order to create an enormes amount of money which would be silently syfoned away. After the introduction of the euro several other ways are used by the government to syfon money away.

We too have accumulated an enormes national debt. Nothing compared to the massive -uck-up the US government has created for its citizens but considering the number of inhabitants still not funny.

The Dutch National Debt is a wopping 400 billion euro's and is increasing with 810 euro per second.

Compared to the National Debt of the US we should consider ourselves lucky.

What I do not understand is that every next day is a day as ussual and no immediate actions are taken to stop this all destructing and nation devestating increasing debt. As if the decision makers have decided that all is lost and will keep on spending untill the moment the entire economy will be trapped in an unstoppable downward spiral. Not one of them cares anymore or maybe never did, the only thing that kept them busy was how to make personal profit of their status, secure their future and probably prepare means to escape when the SHTF.

Anyways....I have a gut feeling there is a global organised money drain going on...for something.

Jump out of the Euro ASAP. It was doomed to fail the moment it started.

Your slackers in Greece are dragging you down into a hole. Cut the rope.