How did they get there in the first place?

And that is probably my main problem with a lot of modern mainstream archeology. They're exploring these cultures on these remote islands in the middle of nowhere that were there for thousands of years and marveling over their achievements. That's all well and good, but how did they get there in the first place?

I'm supposed to believe that a bunch of Stone Age people got thousands of miles out into the middle of the Pacific on glorified canoes? Seriously?

Specifically, I am thinking about Easter Island and Hawaii.

That, I think, is one of the things that most convinces me of some sort of lost technology and civilization, whether it be human or extraterrestrial.

I have wondered this myself, and especially Easter Island.

I honestly have no clue.

"Glorified canoes" that could sail circles around the vessels of European explorers.
You know that the voyages have been recreated, right? Using the same vessels and navigation techniques, right?
en.wikipedia.org...

"Guns, Germs and Steel" is an excellent book on the spread of the human species over thousands of years written by Jared Diamond. A follow up book by him is titled "Collapse" which describes many of these ancient civilizations, isolated and otherwise, and explains their eventual collapse.

They built boats and sailed there. I know very little about the histories of Hawaii and Easter Island, but the ancient peoples didn't require lost technology to get there.

I find this thread interesting so I thought I would share a link, I'm sure this has been on a different thread before but I'll share it anyway in case none of you have seen it... its the last known tribe on the planet, these people want nothing to do with the outside world and as you can see from their body language they were probably confused when they saw a plane flying overhead. They were in normal attire (loin cloths) and once the plane flew over for a second pass they were all covered in orange or black paint from head to toe, as if they were planning on going to war.. Where do they get ink at and what makes them decide to paint their bodies? How the hell do they think to shape flat pieces of wood with spear tips on them when they've had absolutely no outside influence? These types of things blow me away... Imagine landing there with an uzi and an ipad, they would think you were gods or something....crazy..... check the link out and again sorry if you all have seen this before one of earth's last uncontacted tribes

reply to post by RichieRay


I remember seeing those pictures before, but I also seem to remember hearing it was some how a hoax - not sure on that one though. I'll research it.

Either way, it would be so crazy if these people actually existed/exist in this day and age without assimilating into a larger, more advanced society. How do they explain the machines and logging camps they come across to their young, do you think?

There is a site called Spirit Science that gives some "interesting" explanations on this subject.

With all of the information that purtains to the numerous ways Original people traveled, especially prior to the geological shift of the planet into continents, are we really asking such a question? SMH

reply to post by TerryMcGuire


agreed.

its a great book.

read it everyone.

reply to post by Phage


Not to mention that when we go back in time we can see that the ocean levels were up to 200 feet lower than they are now.

Personally speaking I would argue that our ancestors of the past are better able to survive than we are now. If we lost the modern conveniences we have come to rely on, thousands of years ago will look like the pinnacle of human existence. They were able to accomplish more with less than what we can do today.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Plus the site in Papua where they found tuna (deep sea fish) bones in a paleolithic cave site - up to 40'000 years old. This demonstrates they also had the ability to feed themselves whilst at sea, making longer voyages possible.

Admittedly though, tuna can also be found in shallower waters (sometimes) so there is a bit of debate still about this.

reply to post by Flavian


They have found the remains (fossils) of salt water animals in the middle of the Sahara, supporting the theory it was once an ocean type body and then onto the wetland with fresh water lakes.

High in the Andes they have found the remains (fossils) of salt water animals in addition to a settlement that supposedly has a port. Since the settlement is around 12k feet above sea level either the theory is wrong or what we know about our history is wrong.

Im leaning towards the latter.

reply to post by Xcathdra


The port theory though is totally out there though and doesn't have too much behind it in the way of credibility (not totally dismissing but certainly there are other possibilities). As to sea fossils in the Andes, well at one point they were under the sea so that makes sense (sames as Himalayas). My bit of the world used to be tropical reef - mad when you think how bloody cold it is these days!

I think the site in Papua New Guinea is extremely important though. For one thing, it is on the migratory path for a lot of these small islands - ocean currents would certainly help rafts, etc, reach the islands. The tuna bones (found in huge pile of discarded animal bones) demonstrate they had the ability to feed themselves whilst traversing the seas and oceans. Makes me think there may be other very cool, as yet unfound, sites in Papua that would provide more answers to human migration.

reply to post by RatoAstuto


Only three buildings to house an entire tribe?

Even if the rest of the tribe were hiding it doesn't look like there would be enough of them to supply a diverse enough enough gene pool to survive.

I'm calling Shenanigans too.

Originally posted by Flavian
The port theory though is totally out there though and doesn't have too much behind it in the way of credibility (not totally dismissing but certainly there are other possibilities). As to sea fossils in the Andes, well at one point they were under the sea so that makes sense (sames as Himalayas). My bit of the world used to be tropical reef - mad when you think how bloody cold it is these days!

Actually there is some evidence that may support the theory. In Lake Titicaca there are fresh water seahorses. There are no known locations aside from the lake where the seahorse has been located. In order for the seahorse to survive it would need to evolve and adapt.

Originally posted by Flavian
I think the site in Papua New Guinea is extremely important though. For one thing, it is on the migratory path for a lot of these small islands - ocean currents would certainly help rafts, etc, reach the islands. The tuna bones (found in huge pile of discarded animal bones) demonstrate they had the ability to feed themselves whilst traversing the seas and oceans. Makes me think there may be other very cool, as yet unfound, sites in Papua that would provide more answers to human migration.

edit on 22-3-2012 by Flavian because: (no reason given)

Sometime near the end of last year (ill look for the article) fishing hooks made out of bones were located on the coast of California. In addition certain crops / pottery / artifacts have also been located on the West coast of the US. The style of those artifacts were traced back to Japan, which suggests there were major voyages in the Pacific between civilizations.

I really do believe our current view of history is incorrect.

I like Thor Heyerdahl's theory on this:

Scroll down to part ''Theory on Polynesian origins'' for the whole part
en.wikipedia.org...

Heyerdahl said that when the Europeans first came to the Pacific islands, they were astonished that they found some of the natives to have relatively light skins and beards. There were whole families that had pale skin, hair varying in color from reddish to blonde. In contrast, most of the Polynesians had golden-brown skin, raven-black hair, and rather flat noses. Heyerdahl claimed that when Jakob Roggeveen first discovered Easter Island in 1722, he supposedly noticed that many of the natives were white-skinned. Heyerdahl claimed that these people could count their ancestors who were "white-skinned" right back to the time of Tiki and Hotu Matua, when they first came sailing across the sea "from a mountainous land in the east which was scorched by the sun." The ethnographic evidence for these claims is outlined in Heyerdahl's book Aku Aku: The Secret of Easter Island. Heyerdahl proposed that Tiki's neolithic people colonized the then-uninhabited Polynesian islands as far north as Hawaii, as far south as New Zealand, as far east as Easter Island, and as far west as Samoa and Tonga around 500 AD. They supposedly sailed from Peru to the Polynesian islands on pae-paes--large rafts built from balsa logs, complete with sails and each with a small cottage. They built enormous stone statues carved in the image of human beings on Pitcairn, the Marquesas, and Easter Island that resembled those in Peru. They also built huge pyramids on Tahiti and Samoa with steps like those in Peru. But all over Polynesia, Heyerdahl found indications that Tiki's peaceable race had not been able to hold the islands alone for long. He found evidence that suggested that seagoing war canoes as large as Viking ships and lashed together two and two had brought Stone Age Northwest American Indians to Polynesia around 1100 AD, and they mingled with Tiki's people. The oral history of the people of Easter Island, at least as it was documented by Heyerdahl, is completely consistent with this theory, as is the archaeological record he examined (Heyerdahl 1958). In particular, Heyerdahl obtained a radiocarbon date of 400 AD for a charcoal fire located in the pit that was held by the people of Easter Island to have been used as an "oven" by the "Long Ears," which Heyerdahl's Rapa Nui sources, reciting oral tradition, identified as a white race which had ruled the island in the past (Heyerdahl 1958).

& a nice read here: Mysteries of the Pacific:

Legend describes Easter Island as having once been part of a ‘much larger country’.

pacificislandsresearchinstitute.org...

reply to post by Plugin


Heyerdahl essentially proved that in actual fact, provided you had a material that floated sufficiently, it is actually difficult NOT to make the crossing in primitive rafts - a fact i think is often overlooked.

It would have been scary, physically exhausting and possibly traumatic but the main point is that it would have entirely possible and plausible.

Another uncontacted (well for very long before they kill the intruder)

Are these fine folks the Jarawa

Don't bother us!

As for the OP

Of course the Hawaiian did as they claimed, early explorers came across them at sea

You might want to consider too the peopling of Madagascar - the Indonesians got there too and their sailing technology wasn't as robust as the Polynesians


You also might wish to consider how the Sentinelese got to their island

The style of those artifacts were traced back to Japan, which suggests there were major voyages in the Pacific between civilizations.

That connection was found to imaginary when the two types of pottery were subjected to analysis

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
That, I think, is one of the things that most convinces me of some sort of lost technology and civilization, whether it be human or extraterrestrial.

Are you being serious...........you can't imagine that these people could possibly travel in boats........ but you can entertain the idea of flying machines or something even more exotic or even ET intervention?

You've been watching too many show like Ancient Aliens my friend!