Trade Professional (RE: Ancient Monuments): "I can not build even one wall. Here's a theory."

This was a great read and very interesting! Even if I didn't agree with all of it, it was still very well written/researched. It is post like this that make ATS a great place to come! Thank you!

I can't begin to describe how many of my own thoughts and theories you have laid out so eloquently in this thread. My brother is a machinist and I was an engraver for 25 years and we have often contemplated how many of the ancient megalithic sites were built.
Like you, we would have to turn down the job of trying to build one as it would be far beyond our limited knowledge to attempt.
It;s hard enough to make metal parts perfectly fit - imagine how much more difficult it would be to make the same from stone with it's varying grains, imperfections and impurities!
Add to that creating a foundation to support such immense weights and even incorporate solar, lunar and astrological cycles in to the orientation.
It's stupefying in it's complexity and to attribute such work to "bronze age" people is ludicrous.

The most important point you assert (imo) is that there has long been a campaign to destroy history and keep the people at large in the dark. It's makes great sense logically to hoard knowledge to one's own benefit by denying it to others. Take the truth and transform it in to myth .
It would only take a few nuclear weapons to destroy a small but very advanced civilization and as you pointed out time and nature do quite a number on everything but gold.

What the future has in store I think you have your finger on. It's the trump card they're saving for last.

Fantastic thread and sorely needed. Yours has been a most pleasant diversion from all the world's ills.
S&F

Great thread... cheers, applause, flag and stars...

I have not read completely thru it all, but in speed reading it I find it more than fascinating, and more than informative, I find it addressing the problem with so many artifacts we can see and touch today.

Although I was not in the trades, chose the easy way out and went to college, my father, his father and his farther and his farther and his farther before him (and family research makes it likely many more father's before too) have been skilled masons in every aspect of the stone cutting industry.

I have seen wonderful, remarkable pieces made by my family, labors of love cut/chiseled/carved/hand rubbed/hand polished in stone. My sister has them all at her home as I have no where to keep anything or I would post pictures. Never the less, having seen all these and having been told what was passed down to me about this remarkable craft from my father and grandfather tells me without doubt, some of these remarkable artifacts we see around the world today were not cut in detail by and more importantly polished and finished to the degree I've witnessed (thru pictures I've seen) by hand with rocks and copper chisels.

Now, having said that, I have absolutely NO proof there were ancient aliens on this planet (although I find it a fascinating theory and do not rule out the possibility) so my only conclusion can be to agree, there have been enumerable civilizations before us which apparently have been highly developed at some point, then lost, then reborn and lost again several times.

I also have 'never' seen on tv or otherwise stone work to the finish and tolerances indicated and having been involved in engineering at a limestone quarry for summer employment during college I had the opportunity to see channeling machines, cable saws, gang saws and many other devices and methods employed on various types of stone.

The precisions cuts and finishes shown in the photos do not represent an individual pounding away at a rock face with simple hand tools.

In closing, I would addressing the 'splitting of stone' by wedges, freezing of water and various other means and I can tell you, although possible to split, you have a more than 50% chance the fracture will in no way present itself perpendicular to the opposite face, in a straight line or for than matter end up smooth to sight or touch.

It just doesn't work that way.

If not 'outside intervention' then I can only assume 'lost civilizations'.

Give me a long 2x4 and a 1500lb object,I can move it

Yes, but try that with a 100 ton stone and see what happens.

Thank you for this very great thread! I have been discussing the idea of ancient advanced civilizations with a lot of people lately, and even came to the same conclusion you did about the secret societies holding this knowledge. It seems to be the most plausible theory on these subjects. While I have thought many of these same things, you presented it in a very effective way and backed it up with examples and the skills of your trade. Nice job. S & F

Also, you offered a lot of new information I wasn't aware of.

reply to post by Sahabi


epic thread mate. i too am on the same plane.

I am a programmer by trade and those calculations and precision are sick when you look at them. a 3D printer may be able to pull it off... but for slaves its a big no freakin way from me!

excellent post mate and a jolly good read!

Excellently done...KUDOS...for presenting as theory and saying it is theory....as that is what all the study of the ancients is....we don't have real proof .....we have bits and pieces that we put together into formats that seem plausible....None to this point can say how the structures were built.....having years of experience in buildings and building designs....I have also always been amazed by the precision of the megaliths of the past and it astonishes me.
Was it Aliens or an Advanced human race that had a longer lasting cycle of existence than we are currently in today we do not know now do we.....and the mathematics that cross the essence of time.
I am for believing that there was a space traveling race on the planet during one of these cycles just because of the interstellar alignment of some of these structures.....it is knowledge of the universe that we don't even understand ourselves as of yet.....but we are getting there.
also when i say there was this race here....I also do not for one second believe they ever were here helping the human race....they had their tech ...and we were the monkey's....and in this cycle....we are advancing a little faster than past cycles because we had interaction with these persons.....we seen them in action and we have learned some of their techniques and applied them to ourselves.
Also when they occupied this space at said earlier time...they also needed a more intelligent slave to do their bidding.....they mess with our DNA.......they created the human race through experimentation.....took what they needed from the planet....and abandoned the slaves as our use was no longer needed for their needs.
hence they gave us this planet....and left it in our care.....and aren't we doing a brilliant job.
Were they aliens....I am not sure....are we aliens.....that i am certain of....aliens to this planet.....i mean if we were not....why on this earth would we ever treat our lifes blood in such a way.

Very cool thread, and thank you.

Until we see aliens, I'm on the side of lost history/knowledge with all these interesting structures for humans, by humans, of humans.

The earth itself, as well as the sun can certainly get up to some rather fun and often devastating antics, and then there's all those rocks and balls of ice whizzing around that could impact.

it makes sense for civilizations in the deep past to stake out some real estate around river deltas, and coastal areas. We've seen in our own time how massive tsunamis can totally wipe out areas. Central hubs to advanced cultures gone due some scenario that destroys everything in coastal regions, and there's high probability of all the hinterlands falling back into a dark ages, forgetting, and continuing to forget with only myths and legends of a golden past to embroider and sensationalize.

As far as engineering goes, there's the question regarding the rock softening plant compound. Should it play out and test reliably, these 50 ton megalithic blocks could just very well be cement of sorts, put together in place by 50 tons of smaller softened stones and rocks.
Shaping stone that's been softened could then very well be quite easy and feasible with bronze age tech.
that, of course, is speculation based on speculation regarding the stone softening compound derived from plants. It would, however, give reasonable explanation for how bronze age tech could achieve such precision, as well as the melted looking structures in some places.

(8) This is a part of the news of the Ghaib (unseen, i.e. the news of the past nations of which you have no knowledge) which We reveal to you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم). You were not with them, when they cast lots with their pens as to which of them should be charged with the care of Maryam (Mary); nor were you with them when they disputed. ( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #44)

(20) And had Allah willed, He could have made you (all) one nation, but He sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. But you shall certainly be called to account for what you used to do. ( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #93)

(22) And for every nation We have appointed religious ceremonies, that they may mention the Name of Allah over the beast of cattle that He has given them for food. And your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God - Allah), so you must submit to Him Alone (in Islam). And (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) give glad tidings to the Mukhbitun (those who obey Allah with humility and are humble from among the true believers of Islamic Monotheism), ( سورة الحج , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #34)

(26) Then see how was the end of their plot! Verily! We destroyed them and their nation, all together. ( سورة النمل , An-Naml, Chapter #27, Verse #51)

The Quran does mention civilizations and nations that were destroyed by God because of what they did, there have been many wipe outs, including the one which includes the nation of Giants, which I think were either ´Ad or Thamud.

Take a look at these muslim scientists, most of them were given a crater on the moon to be named after them,
Muslim Scientists that Made History

reply to post by Sahabi


Let me just say that looking at your photos made me feel ......funny.
These things excite me.
Excellent post
I do not necessarily think aliens but we have simply forgotten more than we currently know for one reason or another.
There certainly are alot of neat things out there though isn't there?
BTW, did I mention that those are some sexxeh pics you posted?
Good stuff.

reply to post by Sahabi


Excellent thread. Consider yourself starred and flagged! While I do not agree with 100% of your concepts and theories, I will happily admit that I think 95% of them must be correct by simple, rational deduction. It stands to reason there have been many advanced civilizations before recorded history, yet joe-public would rather buy into the AA theory it seems.

We diverge perhaps on the matter of alien visitation - I feel quite strongly we have/are - however, we don't need the AA theory to explain many of our ancient masterpieces IMO.

Good work!

I am hoping this thread gets the attention that it deserves.

I enjoy the AA series - while at the same time my suspicions have been perfectly outlined by this thread.

Very much agree with you (OP) - and your insight as well as approach is commendable.

We are definitely in for some interesting times.

I want to know why the military must constantly dress up as gray beings with large black eyes and long fingers just to get someone's attention in the middle of the night after a bad dream.
This, might always "irk" me, though.

Yes, flag and star from me for sheer effort and research. An excellent thread.
I do believe that our ancestors had extensive tuition in the art of building from an unknown source especially when it comes to the Giza Pyramids. However, it has always bothered me as to why, if this source was Extra Terrestrial, that surely they would have taught our ancestors the art of making steel beams and concrete. Surely this would have been much easier. There is also the question as to why none of these great monuments (all over the world) never had any plate glass windows. Perhaps this is why those three-eighth holes were drilled through two feet of Diorite at Puma Punku?
I cannot come to terms with the fact that after building these magnificent structures they didn't appear to serve any purpose. Puma Punku appears to have been blown to smithereens whilst other structures were just left to rot. If the ET's had been the source then I can understand that when they left they took their technology with them leaving our human ancestors to shrug their shoulders and start fighting with each other again.
We will no doubt get to the bottom of this as we make more discoveries.
Again, an excellent thread and you are to be commended.

Well said. The history chanel talks out of both sides of its mouth. If you watch the life after humans show, everything decays and disappears after a hundred or so years. Ancient aliens can't explain how the ancients built things, so it concludes aliens did it. Throw out the sacred cow of darwinian evolution. There is no proof all of early man was primitive cave dwellers. There is proof however of the opposite (pyramids, megalyths), so why does anyone subscribe to the false theory?

Food for thought, suppose 1000 years from now, archeologist discover artifacts from an amazon villiage dated to be from 2012. Will all the schools be taught that the humans from 2012 lived in grass huts and had no technology whatsoever? No one else thinks it is rather presumptuous to paint all of society based on a few artifacts here and there. As the OP stated, your TVs, iPods, computes, and cars will decay and rust away to nothing in no time.

reply to post by Sahabi


your entire premise is a classic argument from ignorance

as you state - you are a machinist , not a mason , builder any relevant skill

how do you think a stone-mason will fare if you gave him a bridgeport and a peice of titanium and told him to make a con-rod ?

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Exactly. I have watched stone masons at work at the Minster Stone Yards in York - they specialise in early medieval masonry and still use many traditional techniques. They have no problems doing very intricate carvings with very little effort. The way they cut huge rocks makes it look like childs play to be honest (obviously isn't, they are just very skilled at what they do).

Whilst they specialise in the early medieval stone carvings, the techniques haven't changed all that much over the years. They refuse to use modern equipment for some cuts because the machinery can damage the rocks (not sure of the science behind this but probably to do with the frequencies generated).

Some really interseting stuff in here, i've seen most of it before in other threads and other sites as a lot of this relly interests me, i would also say that the original sea farers also had aviation as well.

reply to post by berserkedfrenzy

"I would have to say that cycles may not happen about 33 times"

Hey there berserkedfrenzy. Thanks for taking the time to post.

The number 33 was only put out as a reference to our current progression from the last age of ignorance. There could have been more or less cycles... some could have developed more rapidly or rather slowly... some could have developed beyond us, some might not have gotten to where we are, and some could have deveolped in totally different ways. There are so many unknown variables to take into consideration.

• The Maya, Hopi, and Suix believe that we are currently living in the 4th world, on the cusp of the 5th.

• The Aztecs believed we are presently in the 5th, on the cusp of the 6th.

• Even the Matrix made reference to cyclical rises and falls:

Architect: Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

Neo: Others? How many others? What others? Answer my question!

Architect: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the 6th version.

Neo: 5 One's before me? What are you talking about?

We don't have enough evidence to accurately determine how many cycles have so far occurred. However, I believe there is abundant evidence that proves there was at least one right before our present development.

Brilliant thread, well done.

It is possible that one of these previous civilizations (if they existed of course) may have made it off planet prior to their oncoming ice age. They may have returned as Gods to try and help us in our cycle. It should be obvious that if this were true only a few could have left. We are possibly the remnants of those that didn't get off.

Maybe they left us to our own devices in disgust. If I had returned I would be likely to see the bad side of our nature. Being mostly sheeple is a huge part of the bad side.

An interesting read.

P

reply to post by Sahabi


Of all the wilder theories out there, ancient advanced civilizations is certainly the most likely. Sadly though, it will remain only a theory until significant evidence emerges - a few rocks as ruins is not evidence (ie sunken city sites).

My biggest problem with it is the lack of corroborating evidence. I would theorise that if such civilizations had occurred, they would most likely have been coastal dwellers (like us, originally). Obviously, with the huge differences in sea levels over the ages, depending upon location of said sites, there would probably be very little in the way of survivable material. To put this in perspective, look at the before and after satellite images of the 2004 Indonesian and 2011 Japanese tsunami's - the ground is literally scoured. Now imagine that every day for millenia, possibly in areas with very high tide margins and you will see the potential for remains of any description is very slim.

I therefore think that even if such evidence exists that supports advanced prior civilizations, we would never be able to prove it, meaning it will always remain, at best, pure conjecture. This is something of a shame to me as we all want answers!