Claiming the Ascended Masters for Your Own

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

I don't have to know you to be genuine, I do care about your salvation, I want you to see the truth for yourself and for that I know exposing cracks in foundations stings but sometimes the necessary love is the kind that sharpens us as friction happens. I am not patronizing you. The truth is important to me. Your salvation is important to me and I would rather you be completely hot or cold about Christ and true to yourself than to lie to yourself about how close you are in relationship with our Father as is in Jesus Christ.

What a load of hooey.
You don't care about her salvation. You care about being pious and argumentative. How 'bout you just worry about your own image, and check those cracks in your own foundations. Find a library.

She's not interested. Walk away.

My boasting has not been in myself. Those pious words that come straight from Scripture whereby I argue are not my own. My arguments and words have not been with condemnation although perhaps sharp but such are the words that aren't truly mine whereby I do stand.

I know this is cliche but ATS is an open forum to discuss the topics at hand and on the matter of ascended master's I find it personally important that Christ be spoken of in truth, not according to unfounded knowledge and presuppositions that effectively creates a god who serves us rather than God having created us to serve him in faith. I do care, about her and you regardless of how you may feel. Nevertheless, I have spoken my peace for now. If she is further interested, she and I may continue to reason together.

Nope. No. Uh-uh. Hold up a minute here. The main tenure of your posting indicates to me that you are circular in your arguments using some of the more basic arguments many fundamentalists use that are false. For example, the bible is not the word of god. No where - not one part of it's scripture - does it state that it is.

2 Timothy 3:16 states that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

So yes, it is in there. Notwithstanding, Jesus himself is the Word of God (John 1).

Another argument is the resurrection of Christ that you mentioned. Outside of the new testament there is NO historical reference of Christ's resurrection appearing in ANY historical document of the same time period.

The event occurred in a small part of the world amongst relatively few in the world's population and only those who believed, witnessed, could write, and had access to writing materials would have been the only ones the pen it all as the apostles did. The Pharisees and Sadduccees according to scripture did what they could to stifle the movement. Nevertheless, even without any written text at all, the historical fact of what happened stands on it's own.

So dare I ask? Is it safe to assume that you don't think that anyone can be like Christ? Follow example in these supposedly great and gifted human beings?

Doesn't the title Christian mean little Christ or like Christ? It is safe to safe that Christ is Christ and in no other name is there found salvation. Do any of these other "supposedly great and gifted human beings" offer you anything close to what Christ is offering?

Do you think that for somebody to be saved by Christ, they have to be just like you? Go to church like you. Accept the bible as the Word as you. Follow only the wide path of Christianity? Instead of seeking out a solitary, narrow, and unnamed path?

The unnamed path is the broad path. Christ laid out a straight and narrow truth. Truth cannot and will never be relative. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is the Son God, crucified for our sins and raised from the dead and you will be saved. There is no need to muddle the simplicity with religion as you define it.

I of course, will try discussing with you any issues concerning religion and topic relating to their threads. But if you must go off topic with personal attacks to assert yourself, why not create your own thread? However, I do not appreciate being called a liar and then getting led on the merry chase of circular reasoning.

If one defines one's self by what one falsely claims to believe and honor then I can understand how one would feel attacked when the another presents the truth as is held in scripture but if you won't or don't want to profit from the actual words held in scripture instead of believing according to opinion then go your way. As I said, I won't push more now if you can let it be too.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
It will be nothing to let this go in silence but I politely ask that you , in return, refrain from slandering the name of Christ telling those lost souls you believe in Christ and his words while teaching to the contrary.

edit on 23-3-2012 by HeFrippedMeOff because: (no reason given)

Once again a lot of circular arguments. We can go at this all day long have a field match with illogical fallacies, and it wouldn't change my view on Christ. Which I am allowed.

Your heart for Christ is what I'm concerned with but you asked me to refrain from expressing such things so I will not further tread. You are allowed to believe and feel as you desire but I am allowed to critique those beliefs and in doing so, if your beliefs and sensibilities are offended then perhaps you should recheck the stability of those foundational beliefs.

I can't identify and strive to be like Christ, but you can? I wonder why that is? I wonder how Christ would feel about that?

Never did I say such a thing, nor do I believe that.

After all, Christianity didn't begin around Christ did it? When Christ walked the path his followers walked it with them. You didn't.

It did begin around Christ but even though we did not walk in flesh with him, we are all tempted of the same things that have been common to us all since the advent of sin (1 Corinthians 10:13), and all we who believe are compelled to deny ourselves and take up the cross and follow after Christ. (Luke 9:23)

You know as much as me and in fact you probably know less. I actually follow Christ's example and study all faiths and beliefs. As his own example teaches.

There is no need for you to abase me in order to make yourself feel better. The information cited (apart from opinion) speaks for itself. Let honor be due to the one whom honor is due, and I'm not talking about either of us or other mere men. Can I get a reference to this example of Jesus teaching us to study other faiths and beliefs or to believe in another apart form him for salvation or do we both know that Christ in Scripture, being with God from the beginning, knew it all already and, if anything, went himself to teach the rest of the world the truth he conveyed to his apostles and to us as we have in Holy scripture?

Well gee-whiz, I bet he'd be kind of ticked off having every one else putting suppositions in his mouth wouldn't he? Indeed, I assure you, if he is anything as I've come to understand he'd applaud the free-will and fight for change against the oppressive dogma that faces his followers today.

I agree. The traditions of men do get in the way of the simplicity. Perhaps we should take Christ at his very words instead of placing our suppositions and opinions over the truth of what scripture actually says .

My personal experiences are that, personal. My own. I don't need to "prove" to you anything. I'm not asking you to do so either. I take you at your word that you believe in Christ. I assume by your posting that you are a fundamental Christian. However, you will never bring me around to your way of thinking. I do not use fear or bullying and I try to stay away from logical fallacies in my way of expressing myself. Well - I try not to do so. No one's perfect.

I took Logic in college. I'm not sure what logical fallacies you keep referring to that I would be making. Nevertheless, by your very words you prove yourself and where you really stand. You don't have to think as I do, nor am I forcing you. I have not bullied you or spouted hell-fire instilling fear. Sincerely, if you feel like a victim and are scared because of what I have told you then answer the call of the Holy Spirit that is in you, convicting you, and turn away from that which is vain and hold on to him that is true and has given us a real hope.

You simply stating that I'm slandering the name of Christ is an opinion. Since it seems you are the only one here doing so...

oh really is that so? Me simply providing why, how, and then backing it up with scripture from Christ would seem to make it just my opinion. I wonder how true the saying is; we judge ourselves by our own words?

As to letting this go off into silence??? This really must be an ego thing for you, huh? So let me guess, if you get the last word in you win, right? That sarcasm flew right over your head. So let me spell it out for you. I ended in it also.

I'm sorry, I missed the sarcasm. Your soul isn't about me winning.

As for the last word, it isn't about winning either. It's about not wanting you to believe things about Christ falsely.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Hi Fripped, I hope you don't mind if I condense your name. As to "letting it be", why? I started this thread and furthermore I enjoy conversing with people. Even if their views differ from my own.

Nothing like a Monday afternoon starting out with bible study. I usually use my King James version in debate, but as my eldest child is using it currently for a paper, I shall have to settle with my New International version.

2Tim: 3:16 does not say that it is the "word of god" in my opinion it alludes to the idea that the scripture was inspired by God through man. Man is not unerring. Period. God didn't come down to earth and pen the book himself, man wrote it. So once again, I feel my point still stands. Not to mention that as the New Testament stands, the book hadn't even been put together yet! When Christ mentions scripture in the NT, it is theologically agreed upon that he was either referring to canons in the OT or referring particularly to God's ten commandments. Furthermore, simply because somebody was "inspired" to write does not mean they are infallible. For example, if a beautiful flower inspires me to write, this does not mean the flower wrote the words.

Also, there are several verses that state that the bible is NOT the word of God. 1Corinthians 7:12 Paul states that it is his words, not God's word. So to say the entirety of the scripture is God's word is not true. Thus, the entirety of the bible is not the utterance of God itself. Paul again claims he is using his own words yet again in 2Corinthians 11:17. Now a fundamentalist will counter these verses in the NT as being inspired without knowing it. Or that he was adding substance to Jesus's word. Now why would God inspire Paul to say that those are not it's words? Does that make sense? No it does not.

As to the book John, I see only that it states that God created language. The word becoming "flesh" say's nothing about the entirety of the bible being the unerring utterances of God. As the above shows, Paul states inexplicably that it is not. Unless, you don't want to believe Apostle Paul words.

As to what "Christianity" means. It matters not as Christianity was created and set up after Christ. The new testament wasn't even put together until 400 A.D. Furthermore, they didn't even included all books, but picked and chose which ones were best to continue on in the march towards world domination. It also does not follow that anyone has to be Christian in order to strive to be like Christ. In no way do you have any evidence that Christ even agrees with Christians or the NT. In fact, he might look at the Jewish faith more favorable, as he himself was Jewish. It's wishful thinking to suppose that Christ would think any Christian "Christ-like" as war, forced belief, and control from religious injustice was his very reason for raising up against the established oppressive religious rule of his day! No, I daresay, Christ may not look upon Christianity favorably at all. We have no real way of knowing, after all. It is conjecture to assume that all Christians are Christ like. Though some I do believe strive to be. Perhaps when you pass from this world you should have a pow-wow with Christ into the merits of tolerance and open-mindedness towards all faiths and individuals.

So once again, I'll study Christ and his message without the bias of the majority. I don't like to be told what to think, and I am fairly certain I was given logic and reasoning for a purpose. Christ is not God and never claimed to be God. He was an ascended master who encouraged people to follow in his example. To try and be like him, claiming that we all had it within ourselves to be just like him. Christianity has stolen that from us. Instead, they place him up on an unattainable pedestal claiming he is God and none can be like him. That is a disservice to his very message is it not? Christianity is of man's making, not Christ's.

So shall we go around and around again on the merry chase of circular reasoning?

Originally posted by awakendhybrid

Having a following makes you no more like Christ than the poison punch drinkers looking for spaceships. Do you heal the blind, sick, or walk on water? Can you say to a man stretch out your hand and it be healed? Can you raise yourself from the dead? What real hope that isn't vanity of this world do you give to the hopeless without Christ? You boast of yourself making yourself like God in error.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Would you ever consider that the very same abilities lay latent within your own DNA?
The Kingdom of Heaven lies Within.
For thousands of years They have taken His words and made Us believe We were nothing without Him, but He is a part of Us and that powerless separation couldn't be further from the truth. Why would GOD ever separate from Us??
Quantum Physics isn't just science.

The Science of Quantum Physics deals with Energy which is altogether of a different subject matter than the Philosophy of Authority in Power. Either the abilities we perceive exist in truth as we have witnessed according to the authority of one in whose image we are made or what abilities we perceive as miraculous and "in power with authority" are just tricks not unlike modern magic. Nevertheless, believers and unbelievers alike throughout history have exemplified unexplainable powers, some of God some of other means so I believe. This I do not deny but all such powers pail in comparison to the rising of Christ from the grave which makes him unique bar none.

He is part of us but powerless separation couldn't be further from the truth? Perhaps "They" are right for if He is part of Us and He be where from the power originates then apart from him we would be powerless. That being said, it is not God who has separated Himself from us. It is we who, through sin, often times deny the power of our Father, separating ourselves from the power of His Holy Spirit.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


I'm quite capable in deciding for myself what and who Christ was. Thank you. So is everyone else. Once again, the circular arguments are beginning to exhaust me. I haven't even attempted to dive into the Egyptian and Sumerian beliefs which show how the idea of Christ MAY actually be a composite of different belief systems. Devised in order for people to identify with the new religion and make conversion easier as the Romans continued to attempt to conquer the world. I respect your right to believe as you do. If it gives you comfort and you believe the bible, well great. I have no wish to change your ideas as to what Christ means to you. I am trying to impress upon you, how Christ can influence people's lives even if they are NOT Christian. You wish to tell me who and what Christ was as though you were the authority. You are not. Neither is the bible. Nor am I, for that matter.

We simply disagree. There is nothing wrong in that. After all, this is a thread about why Christ as an ascended master doesn't "belong" to Christianity. Christianity saying it is so, doesn't make it so. Buddhist's saying Buddha belongs to them, doesn't make it so. Islam saying that Muhammad belongs to them, doesn't make it so. These men attempted to inspire and change humanity, not control it.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

1) a. I thought we were going to allow the suppositions and opinions to stop and let the Word speak for itself beginning with the fact that Timothy penned this letter later, after Christ ascension?

b. You are true in saying that man is not unerring but the Holy Spirit is unerring and the message within scripture is a testament to the one who has inspired it.

c. The NIV is an interpretation of a translation. You should buy you another kjv or visit a site where you can access an accurate translation. Too, God is no plant and does not inspire as a flower would. (logical fallacy?)

2 a.1 Corinthians does not state that the entirety of the Bile is not the Word of God, only that Paul is addressing a matter of doctrine to which Christ himself left no commandment. This does not mean that the Comforter Jesus said he was sending to teach us in all knowledge and truth is not here doing this before our very eyes.

b. 2 Corinthians 11:17 reads a bit differently than the aforementioned verse in that Paul is about to speak in a way that Christ never did.

c. Either way, the claim that the Holy Spirit isn't teaching or that there is an error in the the text remains an unfounded supposition.

3. Language isn't capitalized like a proper noun would be, not to mention all the other references to Jesus being the Word made flesh....as he was. As for the above, refuted just like this silly claim.

4 a. Rome effectively consolidated the libraries of the world pulling together individual letters to individual churches.

b. Evil men do evil things to usurp power. World domination as taught in the scripture does not teach so in the same way as those who wage jihad with weapons of wars and bloodshed.

c. Striving to be like Christ because you believe and trust in him is why one is called a christian. If you don't follow him then you don't follow him but you can still be a good person I suppose although not sinless and so not good enough.

d. Scripture speaks for itself. Christ agrees with the Holy Spirit. Whatever the Holy Spirit inspires Christ agrees with. Again, scripture speaks for itself.

e. Jesus came unto his own and his own received him not....so enough with the "He was Jewish" argument.

f. Christ knows his children and is preparing a place for them regardless of "religion" as the world defines it. Those who are true are true and those who are not are not and Christ knows who are his in faith and who are not. Nevertheless, you speak of tolerance or lack thereof when Jesus and his real followers aren't the ones who will kill you in order to gain eternal life. Tolerating a humans life and allowing them to believe although we do debate truth is one thing. Tolerating philosophies becoming law that lead to destruction and decay is a whole other thing. We have every right. Tolerate us .

5. a. Religion according to man is a disservice, I agree. Religion, true and undefiled, to Christ means taking care of the widows and fatherless, and keeping oneself unspotted from the world but salvation is found only in one. Jesus claimed to be one with the Father. He claimed to be the "way, truth, and life; no man comes unto the Father but by me." We worship God as Father and Jesus as Son, the one by whom God has gifted us eternal life by grace through faith and not of works. There is only one savior, and there is none like him. Your unscriptural opinions of salvation, Christ's teachings, and what real biblical Christianity is the real message of disservice; to yourself and those who know no better.

b. If anything I argue is circular or illogical please let me know in so many words and how. I actually would appreciate it. Nevertheless, heed your own advice too.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

I'm quite capable in deciding for myself what and who Christ was. Thank you. So is everyone else. Once again, the circular arguments are beginning to exhaust me.

I'm sure you are but no, not everybody is if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Great Commission? And again, which circular argument?

I haven't even attempted to dive into the Egyptian and Sumerian beliefs which show how the idea of Christ MAY actually be a composite of different belief systems. Devised in order for people to identify with the new religion and make conversion easier as the Romans continued to attempt to conquer the world.

If God, then God has been from the beginning. Those old texts no more disprove Christ than they approve the fact that God has had this planned from the very beginning.

I respect your right to believe as you do. If it gives you comfort and you believe the bible, well great. I have no wish to change your ideas as to what Christ means to you. I am trying to impress upon you, how Christ can influence people's lives even if they are NOT Christian.

I am not at odds with the fact that Christ can influence people who do not believe he is actually the Son of God. What then is Jesus in Islam? My contention is that you say you believe and follow Christ but according to his very own words deny him Authority teaching another doctrine.

You wish to tell me who and what Christ was as though you were the authority. You are not. Neither is the bible. Nor am I, for that matter.

Is Christ not the authority on Christ? Are these my own words when Jesus claims to be the way of salvation for all of mankind? You deny Christ because Christ is not the authority? Do you truly serve a God whom you do not know? Do you truly believe there is no knowing God or His Love? You truly deny Christ?

We simply disagree. There is nothing wrong in that. After all, this is a thread about why Christ as an ascended master doesn't "belong" to Christianity. Christianity saying it is so, doesn't make it so. Buddhist's saying Buddha belongs to them, doesn't make it so. Islam saying that Muhammad belongs to them, doesn't make it so. These men attempted to inspire and change humanity, not control it.

You should read the Quran or at least hear a converted Muslim, or some Scholar on the matter of control before making such a statement about Islam and Muhammad's message. Dr Ravi Zacharias while contending with a Muslim boasting of recent increases in Muslim converts said to the man who immediately became speechless (and i paraphrase); take your feet off of the peoples necks and see where their faith rests.

Also, just last message you claimed Christianity and the teaching of the Bible were put together to control the world. Which is it?

And above all, Christ belongs to all who will accept him and likewise they to him. As for Muhammad and Siddhartha and whoever else you'd like to name, I cannot say whether they have power over the grave.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Hi again Fripped. Once again, no the bible is not the word of God or Christ for that matter just because people say so. It is the word of man. Period. You don't really think that man should take infants from unfavorable countries and dash them against rocks do you? You don't really think that pregnant women and babies should be ripped from the womb as is told in the OT do you? Do you agree with God that these are acceptable things in which to do? Of course God wouldn't command anyone to do that. But the bible (written by man to control, divide and conquer society) says God said that. So which is it? Do you believe that you should do these things? Because God said you should if you are a believer that the bible is the unerring word of God. Would you sacrifice your own child, plunge the knife in as Abraham did because God told you to? It's ludicrous to suppose that God would command any of the above atrocities, but you would have me believe that this is truth? That these stories happened and actually came to pass? I won't believe that of God. I'm sorry, but you'll never convince the above evil is God's supposed will.

When I look upon any work - no matter the religion - I do not suppose that anyone wrote it except for mankind. The apostles all have very interesting takes on Christ, which I take into account and then make my own informed decision. I much prefer to look at Christ through updated ideals and progressive thinkers than attempting to muddle through the bible which is hateful towards women, homosexuals and endorses slavery, teaches bigotry and hatred against all other faiths, and continues to attempt to instill fear in others with threats of hell and damnation. You will never convince me that any sane person would endorse any of these atrocities. They all cause hate and evil. Just as today, if someone said they were receiving word from God and we all should go over to another country and kill all the infants and pregnant women - you'd be put into a straight-jacket or jailed. Do you expect it was any different back then? Do you really suppose that Abraham killed his son and then everyone around him just let him do it? Really?

Now I've heard it all before. As to this being acceptable beliefs to hold. My favorite is the old "Oh, well if someone was mistaken, they will just go to heaven." These fanatical and dangerous beliefs are what lead to mass murders in the name of religious belief! No, I'll believe as I believed before - in order to study Christ's message to humanity - I do not have to be Christian. I couldn't be. I don't believe in your God if the criteria for believing in your God is accepting the bible as the word of God. For the reasons I cited above. For if a God should command me to kill women and infants - I'd say take me instead. The bible is just a book, and I decide what is good and what is bad for myself. I do not and will never let anyone tell me differently. To suppose that I could or should goes against the grain of my own moral beliefs. I would never take a life, nor would I ever believe in a God who told me to. As to Christ, he was man - that may or may not have existed. There is much evidence to suggest he was a composite ideal of older Gods. Today I see it as an ideal, a "consciousness" to strive toward - but that has gotten lost in the translation hasn't it? For he is your savior and all you have to do is believe right? That's alright, I'll save myself by striving to be a good person and attempt to meet Christ in the afterlife hand in hand - not on my knees begging please - like those at the pulpit. But that's just me.

So once again. It's simply that we disagree. I don't feel that I have to be Christian or believe the bible is the word of God to study and appreciate Christ's message. I'd rather follow in his example and study all beliefs and not subscribe myself to any religion. I couldn't. It goes against how God made me.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

1) Jesus said so, take it up with him who you say you believe in and honor. Period. Quit blaming his words on the rest of us.

2) There is much more to this happening. It's like the 15 year old arguing why would God flood the Earth during Noah's time killing the vast majority of his children. There is a context and God's judgement is reserved and is His to make regardless.

3) Again, same argument. There is much more to the situation than "the Hebrews just didn't like them." Not to mention that this too is all part of an old covenant between man and God for righteousness by works. Nevertheless, God has control even in death so......

4) It is not for me to judge God. He is God in life and death. In respect to his ultimate ownership and authority His judgements are righteous for we and our lived belong to him. How he chooses to deal with souls after he decided their time has come is up to him and far be it from me to assign anything less than Kingship to the Creator.

5) Are you now asserting that Christ is of no effect, that we should adhere to a specific directive by God to a specific group of people in a specific old testament time and context as if it were that we are now under the law also and not grace? God has not told me to kill anyone or do such things as you have mentioned. Also, the people often took it upon themselves to do as they would without God's directive so perhaps you could provide scripture (in context) when you make such a bold assertion. Much of the old testament is a story of their life and the things that happened to them including moments outside of God's will.


6) The knife did not touch Isaac. The entire happening was about faithfulness and sacrificing a son that was promised (get it?). This was also in a time before the advent of Christ when God made himself known in other ways. You are making very emotional arguments and, my opinion, is that the emotions are blinding you to what the stories/happenings actually mean and signify. As for the above, show us all where God and not a man commanded such a thing and why so we can all better understand what you mean and whereby you contend.

7) Have your opinions but know that God created a hierarchy and there is a beautiful, wonderful relationship laid out for men and women in relationship according to God. Women are to be cherished but that doesn't mean you have ultimate authority. And what is it to you if God created men with one organ and females with another deciding that men who lay with men will in fact receive the recompense for such things? God and spiritual identity far exceeds defining oneself based on sexuality. How base and fleeting and unstable such a thing but in all this there is forgiveness of sins. God has said no for our own good and has given us a better way regardless and deny Him that? Too, slavery has such a negative connotation but is the way of the world and has kept many alive in times when they would have otherwise perished. Slavery wasn't always so heinous and masters did not always beat and spit and revile their help. Open you mind a little. I do not condone slavery but are we not today slaves to our government and jobs and all sorts of things?

8) What story are you reading that Abraham killed Isaac instead of the angel of the Lord holding his hand back? Too, you are refusing the very teachings of Christ in your hypothetical. We are not called after such a war. There was a specific time and plan and purpose back then just as we have our own now. Our God has made his will known. We know who we serve and we know his character, we have seen Christ, we have seen our Father in the Flesh. You argue a mute point here.

9) Jesus has not called us to such warfare as you are assigning to us. Be mad at another faith, for Christ teaches no such thing as jihad. People manipulate authority for their own selfishness. Those people and their ways are evident but who they are and where they stray does not make the Word of God as we can all read say anything other than that our warfare is not with flesh and blood (eph 6). Jesus himself even spoke this fact to Pilate saying his kingdom is not of this world else his disciples would fight.

Do you even hear yourself? You decide good and bad? If that's the case then what if the Hebrews back then decided what was good and bad and it was good to kill babies? According to your reasoning there should be no argument against them? Yet you do. There is NO TRUTH in relativism, get over it, take a college course or something. ugh! lol

Believe as you will. One day you will see. Nevertheless, you're warned. Romans 9 might be a good chapter to brush up on. Just saying.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Again - I'm not Christian. I'm not Jewish or Muslim for the same reasons. I don't believe their texts are the word of God nor do I believe yours is, but the word of man. Am I stuttering? How many times do I have to say it? I don't believe as you do. I wasn't made that way. I don't follow and I never will. I can't, it's against my nature. I also believe that Christ was a man, not a god or half-god set up on a pedestal we can't obtain. It's anti-thesis to the entire idea that Christ was suppose to set forward. That we are all beings of light (i.e. capable of goodness), capable of ascension ourselves. So yes. I decide for myself what are good teachings and what are bad teachings. For example, the idea of an immaculate conception. It's hogwash. A complete rip-off from much older and much more ancient religions and teachings. I don't have people give me their version of how to think. Ever. So all points still stand. I'm not saying God doesn't exist. All I'm saying is that I don't believe the bible to be the unerring word of God, nor do I feel I have to in order to study Christ's teachings, sayings, etc and gain insight or inspiration from him. I won't believe in your version of God. Ever.

I don't have to brush up on anything, as I don't need a bible to tell me what to think on these matters. I use several texts (not just one), my experience, and the experience of those close to me. As to your closing statements, there's no need to be rude is there?

Now where is the problem?

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Christ needs to be really looked into because the bible is a code and luke exposed paul and showed what was really going on. Christ is probably a mixture of Buddhist/Judaism, he was the head of the Nazarenes, that makes him essene and trained probably in mysticism and astrology. And he was one with his Higher Self.

Everything else is just hijaking trojan done by Rome.

Read, use discernment and study up on what you find.

Nonetheless I'm not endorsing tarot and random msytery school things for that matter either. Its being pure, and STO, and connecting within, the calm still pool, and perfecting. Which is what Christ represents as having done. But not slavery and obedience to Rome, obedience and stop searching, and obey the false god of war. That grafting of him after they murdered him and his brother mind you and changed the teachings, Paul made slavery ok, slaves obey your masters, women who were equal teachers of the essenes, cover your heads, and obedience to your masters. Yeah, well that isn't the way home, and that was the trojan horse takeover.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


There is no sin (original or otherwise) in separating ourselves from Him. He revels in our free-will choices knowing that all roads will lead home. There is no catch. His unfettered Love would not actually be so if it were conditioned upon redemption. There is no reason to limit Him so.
The father welcomes the prodigal son home with open, unconditioned arms.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

Jesus obviously did not teach fleshly reincarnation.

Keep studying it, HeF...keep studying. You are sorely mistaken. Not only about what he did NOT teach, but about what he DID.

You'll get it...just keep an open mind, and listen to the Spark of Divine that resides within YOU.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Again - I'm not Christian. I'm not Jewish or Muslim for the same reasons. I don't believe their texts are the word of God nor do I believe yours is, but the word of man. Am I stuttering? How many times do I have to say it? I don't believe as you do. I wasn't made that way. I don't follow and I never will. I can't, it's against my nature. I also believe that Christ was a man, not a god or half-god set up on a pedestal we can't obtain. It's anti-thesis to the entire idea that Christ was suppose to set forward. That we are all beings of light (i.e. capable of goodness), capable of ascension ourselves. So yes. I decide for myself what are good teachings and what are bad teachings. For example, the idea of an immaculate conception. It's hogwash. A complete rip-off from much older and much more ancient religions and teachings. I don't have people give me their version of how to think. Ever. So all points still stand. I'm not saying God doesn't exist. All I'm saying is that I don't believe the bible to be the unerring word of God, nor do I feel I have to in order to study Christ's teachings, sayings, etc and gain insight or inspiration from him. I won't believe in your version of God. Ever.

I don't have to brush up on anything, as I don't need a bible to tell me what to think on these matters. I use several texts (not just one), my experience, and the experience of those close to me. As to your closing statements, there's no need to be rude is there?

Now where is the problem?

edit on 26-3-2012 by CirqueDeTruth because: another thought

The problem is where you claim to follow Christ, honor him, and respect his teachings but deny his efficacy and teach contrary to his doctrine. You do not have to be a Christian to read or study and one may very well find inspiration in Jesus words but if you don't take him at his word, and do not believe, then do not honor him and do yourself and others you teach a great injustice using the name of Christ under the guise of honor and respect teaching your own brand of relativism. I did politely ask you to stop.

As per the rudeness, if Romans 9 is of what you refer then take it up with the God of Peter. If you really don't believe then don't be so emotional or offended but it would make sense if your heart really knows something you refuse to admit. Nevertheless, believe as you will for the message of Romans is not my own. Sticks and stones, sister. Judge thyself (1 Cor 11:31-32)..

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Christ needs to be really looked into because the bible is a code and luke exposed paul and showed what was really going on. Christ is probably a mixture of Buddhist/Judaism, he was the head of the Nazarenes, that makes him essene and trained probably in mysticism and astrology. And he was one with his Higher Self.

Everything else is just hijaking trojan done by Rome.

Read, use discernment and study up on what you find.

Nonetheless I'm not endorsing tarot and random msytery school things for that matter either. Its being pure, and STO, and connecting within, the calm still pool, and perfecting. Which is what Christ represents as having done. But not slavery and obedience to Rome, obedience and stop searching, and obey the false god of war. That grafting of him after they murdered him and his brother mind you and changed the teachings, Paul made slavery ok, slaves obey your masters, women who were equal teachers of the essenes, cover your heads, and obedience to your masters. Yeah, well that isn't the way home, and that was the trojan horse takeover.

edit on 26-3-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

I think it is important we distinguish between messages of doctrine and the message of salvation. Doctrine is designed to help us live a happy healthy life such as being content if one is a slave and honoring those with authority over them (which is well explained in scripture and does not change the message of spiritual freedom to do good and be good in the name of Christ) and too, for women to be under a man's subjection is not such a terrible thing and to cover their heads well, that is explained as having long hair so lets be understanding according to what the work in fullness says and not what some out-of-context argument says one finds all over the net.

Christ also represent the slain lamb of God having taken on the sins of the world that whosoever should believe in him would not perish but have everlasting life. Again, there is much doctrine on how to live life and then there is other doctrine on receiving everlasting life. The bible gives us both.

As for Luke exposing Paul, perhaps you can provide scripture with an explanation. Too, if Christ be who he says he is then he is cannot be labeled by those who follow him but is known of himself and our Father who gave him to us. There is no probably in the matter and such uncertain words mean you speak out of natural opinion of how you might like things to be apart from what scripture actually says. Christ is Christ and is the savior of the world not to be bound by our labels that divide.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


You don't understand how seriously corrupted the bible is. It all starts with the word RUARCH in beginning Genesis actually. But I digress....

Genesis 32 30 Wonder why your pineal's in there and how it relates to seeing God and Jacob's ladder?

The list goes on.

Perhaps you should read this one:

www.thenazareneway.com...

Luke left quite a few clues as to the Trojan horse takeover.

And quite frankly, considering the whole hijacking, and the fairy tale they made of Yehsua's childhood, the 3 wise men, thats the Orion belt, and in the fall Virgo, the Virgin gives birth to the Sun. Its all astrology and coded.

Naturally we know, Jesus wasn't born like this.

Why be a Christian knowing that its all hijacked?

Because, there is truth in Christianity, your own HS and Indwelling Spirit, leads you to the Love and Message to see through the world, STO, and not retaliate against anyone, to grow up. But, considering the nature of the Essene gospels one could wonder whether Christ was real or the Love that shines in through the sun, the intercessor between us here and home, or our pineal.

But if we take Luke somewhat literally as someone puttling clues in plain sight for those to see that their religion won't be the true one, but hijacked, and he fingered Paul very well by what he wrote. Then in a sense what he has written about Christ in his gospel, not just calling him a Nazarene, like the others, but saying he is the leader of the SECT of Nazarenes, ie the Essenes, the gnostic connection.

And, by saying this he is perhaps giving us the closest look at a real authentic person, not a fairy tale, and that this person had a brother, James, who Paul also was there when he was stoned to death.

But like all messages, you need to find the real Love in them, for hte bible has many passages that are SINS, and NOT LOVE, that is NOT GOD.

It is a SIN TO HARM.

It is a sin to believe GOD asked Abraham to sacrifice his own child.

It is a sin to put anyone to death let alone your own disobedient teenagers.

It is a sin to murder cities and take land for yourself.

It is a sin to commit genocide to protect yourself form the ideas of others.

It is a sin to mistreat women and put them under viels.

It is a sin to have slaves.

It is a sin, when Moses called men aside to kills thousands of their own families and neighbors.

The bible is FULL OF EVIL AND SINS.

So, I suggest only using discernment and LOVE.

Christ is about the Love in it, and even so you have to dig deeply for the truth.

Originally posted by awakendhybrid
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

There is no sin (original or otherwise) in separating ourselves from Him. He revels in our free-will choices knowing that all roads will lead home. There is no catch. His unfettered Love would not actually be so if it were conditioned upon redemption. There is no reason to limit Him so.
The father welcomes the prodigal son home with open, unconditioned arms.

If no sin, then Christ died in vain. Free-will would be relative and all men could do as they see fit without repercussion of law which came first leading us into grace. This means there would be no such thing as prodigals. Even the prodigal repented and sought forgiveness returning home.

The catch is that one actually has to believe in Him in spirit and truth. Nevertheless a time will come when, if Jesus isn't making intercession for you at the judgment seat then you alone will have to give account of yourself before God, good and bad while the accuser accuses. Consider Hebrews 3:7-19.

Too, consider the Word when it says faith is a stumbling stone and the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.

If you believe God is love then take to heart His message in 1 John 4.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Jesus obviously did not teach fleshly reincarnation.

Keep studying it, HeF...keep studying. You are sorely mistaken. Not only about what he did NOT teach, but about what he DID.

You'll get it...just keep an open mind, and listen to the Spark of Divine that resides within YOU.

I know when Christ ascended from Sheol the dead rose and witnessed with him for 40 days. I also know the dead in Christ shall rise first and then later those who are alive and remain shall meet them in the air but we are given glorified bodies not of flesh, as explained to those questioning Christ about marriage in the afterlife. If this is not of what you speak then perhaps enlighten me using the words of Christ and/or his followers as to the fleshly reincarnation you speak of that would be akin to Buddhist reincarnation.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff


Well, Fripped, I don't think we will agree. If you mean "follow" by accepting every word in the bible as infalliable - then you are right in so far as the parameters you have set. I don't follow Christ in the manner in which you, YOU feel is necessary. I have explained myself continuously that I follow Christ's example as I see it. Not how you see it. I don't follow, I lead. If can't I forge my own path. So far as spirituality is concerned. Well - that's not true - I'm often accused of being like that about everything!

Let me rephrase, it might give you some peace of mind and perhaps move us forward from this point.

I strive to follow in Christ's example. I try to follow in Buddha's example. I strive to follow in the Druid way. I strive to seek spiritual balance in my life. So on and so forth.

Do you see? I can't be christian because I won't be contained. I won't let someone else tell me that anything can be suppressed or oppressed. I will never believe that "God" is a man sitting in Heaven waiting to send some of his creation to hell. Our separation from knowing God, is hell enough on this earth. I don't know how to come to a reasonable compromise with you - as you are grid locked into the way you believe. I understand that. I just can't be like that. I'm just not that way. Blessed Be and may you find love and light in your life - HeFrippedMeOff

There. The golden happy medium just like Aristotle has taught us.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Instead of exhausting a meaningless debate about semantics that have nothing to do with the message of the cross or corruption of Christ, or any real problem with doctrine for living life other than selfish ideals of how things ought to be muddled with judgment of God, I will instead pass with only this that we lean not on our own understanding or what we know as natural beings corrupting the message of Christ.