John Lear: Flight 800

You made a brief reference to flight 800 in your introduction -- living in the area that it happened in - and knowing various people who saw it - and also people who worked on the recovery I know some of the general opinions of what happened and of course have my own opinion also.

What do you feel happened?

Enjoying reading all the threads.

thanks
jm

Originally posted by justme1640
You made a brief reference to flight 800 in your introduction -- living in the area that it happened in - and knowing various people who saw it - and also people who worked on the recovery I know some of the general opinions of what happened and of course have my own opinion also.

What do you feel happened?

Enjoying reading all the threads.

thanks


A U.S. Navy ship accidentally shot down TWA 800 with an unarmed practice missile. The government bribed the Boeing Company, (who knew the truth) for their complicity in the cover-up with a deal that if they, Boeing would say that the cause was a center fuel tank explosion in 747-100's ONLY (an old not in production slug), they, Boeing, would receive approval to merge with McDonnell-Douglas (which Boeing had been trying to do for years but which had been tied up in anti-trust problems.) TWA (who knew the truth) was bribed for their complicity in the cover- up with an approximately $356 million cash loan. imho.

Originally posted by johnlear
imho.

haha! too much. you rock for an old man.

do you not think 'they' will eventually take you out for being so frank? i know it's not new to you, but 'they' must have a limit as to how much truth can be allowed to leak out. there is a critical mass of awareness, and hard facts and figures, that can compromise their plans, i'm sure. you are being quite specific with the numbers and such. these things can be checked and cross referenced. skeptics should take this opportunity to see if these numbers and timelines check out.
theorists, just adjust the sheild frequency of your tinfoil hat.

thank you -- I know many feel that is what happened and others feel that it was definitely a missle but not sure if it was Naval or terrorist aimed at another flight. I know there were too many people who were familiar with what missles look like who say that is what it was -- and this is both people who saw it on the ground and people who saw it from the air.

Very few people in this area believe the center tank theory that was presented to us.

Thanks again
jm

Originally posted by justme1640
thank you -- I know many feel that is what happened and others feel that it was definitely a missle but not sure if it was Naval or terrorist aimed at another flight. I know there were too many people who were familiar with what missles look like who say that is what it was -- and this is both people who saw it on the ground and people who saw it from the air.

Very few people in this area believe the center tank theory that was presented to us.

Thanks again
jm

Just to let you know what a pain in the butt that piece of fiction was to me... at the time I flew a Lockheed L-1011 cargo jet for Kitty Hawk International. FAA, because of the center fuel tank explosion theory was forced to make every jet with a center fuel tank carry enough additional fuel to be sure the center fuel tanks were covered (thus couldn't explode). That meant we had to reduce our max cargo load by the weight of the adidtional fuel required to cover the tank pumps. So that cut seriously into our revenue over a purely fictional story.

[edit on 21-9-2004 by johnlear]

[edit on 21-9-2004 by johnlear]

Just to let you know what a pain in the butt that piece of fiction was to me... at the time I flew a Lockheed L-1011 cargo jet for Kitty Hawk International. FAA, because of the center fuel tank explosion theory was forced to make every jet with a center fuel tank carry enough additional fuel to be sure the center fuel tanks were covered (thus couldn't explode). That meant we had to reduce our max cargo load by the weight of the adidtional fuel required to cover the tank pumps. So that cut seriously into our revenue over a purely fictional story.

Other than this way that TWA800 affected you, what else have you seen/heard that lends credence to your theory of Naval Involvement? I've looked into this situation also, and came to a similar conclusion as you have. My opinion is you are probably correct, but my question is how did you form this opinion? Aviator scuttlebutt? Mass research? Friends in NTSB or other agencies?

I personally only did net research to come to that conclusion. There are some things that you speak of, that while they are your opinion, I can't help but pick up on the fact that you have a certain confidence about what you say, and I respect that.

The Seeker

Something I never thought about until after reading your post on the center fuel tank -- with your knowledge of aviation things is it possible that it was a missle that was unarmed but happened to hit where the center tank was and it caused an explosion because of fumes that might have been there? Of course it probably would never be a problem unless a missle happened to hit right there.

jm

Mr Lear
Good Day. I am curious if you can provide more information on the ship that caused the "shootdown?" You claim that it was a test missile, but can you be more specific as to what type of missile it was.

I have tried to find out those things for some time now and no one has been able to provide me with those answers. It seems to me that you would be the person most able to provide those answers.

Thank you for your time.

Originally posted by TheSeeker

Just to let you know what a pain in the butt that piece of fiction was to me... at the time I flew a Lockheed L-1011 cargo jet for Kitty Hawk International. FAA, because of the center fuel tank explosion theory was forced to make every jet with a center fuel tank carry enough additional fuel to be sure the center fuel tanks were covered (thus couldn't explode). That meant we had to reduce our max cargo load by the weight of the adidtional fuel required to cover the tank pumps. So that cut seriously into our revenue over a purely fictional story.

Other than this way that TWA800 affected you, what else have you seen/heard that lends credence to your theory of Naval Involvement? I've looked into this situation also, and came to a similar conclusion as you have. My opinion is you are probably correct, but my question is how did you form this opinion? Aviator scuttlebutt? Mass research? Friends in NTSB or other agencies?

I personally only did net research to come to that conclusion. There are some things that you speak of, that while they are your opinion, I can't help but pick up on the fact that you have a certain confidence about what you say, and I respect that.

The Seeker

'The Downing of TWA Flight 800' written by James Sanders who was thrown in jail for obtaining a small swatch of seat cover from the first class section of the cabin through which the missile passed is a very good source of information. He had the swatch analyzed and it was confirmed that a missile passed through the cabin. He had to go to jail for that one.

As I mentioned in a previous thread on ATS the NTSB is in the business of investigating accidents and then providing a theory for that accident that will be the least offensive to (a) the military (b) the president (c) another party or country (d) the public. In that order. Aircraft accidents that did not occur exactly as the NTSB said: (below is listed the airline; the type of aircraft; where the accident happened; the real cause; the least offensive cause. This is an opinion only:

Arrow Air Dc-8, Gander NFL bombin rear cargo compartment ice on wings
UAL B-737 Colorado Spings captain committed suicide Clear air Turb.
USAIR B-727 Pittsburgh captain committed suicide yaw damper malf
TWA 800 B-747 missile accident center fuel tank
AA 587 A-300 Belle Harbor bomb inside cabin or cargo pilot error
UA 93 B-757 Shanksville shootdown by F-16 unknown

I will add others when I remember them.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Mr Lear
Good Day. I am curious if you can provide more information on the ship that caused the "shootdown?" You claim that it was a test missile, but can you be more specific as to what type of missile it was.

I have tried to find out those things for some time now and no one has been able to provide me with those answers. It seems to me that you would be the person most able to provide those answers.

Thank you for your time.

I believe that the type of the missile is listed in Sanders book but I can't remember and my copy is packed away for a move.

Originally posted by justme1640
Something I never thought about until after reading your post on the center fuel tank -- with your knowledge of aviation things is it possible that it was a missle that was unarmed but happened to hit where the center tank was and it caused an explosion because of fumes that might have been there? Of course it probably would never be a problem unless a missle happened to hit right there.

jm

No, the missile passed through the first class cabin.

Originally posted by johnlear
I believe that the type of the missile is listed in Sanders book but I can't remember and my copy is packed away for a move.

Then could you please tell me which ship it was that "fired" the missile?

No one seems to know the answer to that question.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by johnlear
I believe that the type of the missile is listed in Sanders book but I can't remember and my copy is packed away for a move.

Then could you please tell me which ship it was that "fired" the missile?

No one seems to know the answer to that question.

I doubt if we will ever know the answer to that question. The ship steamed away and every person on board was assembled to hear this briefing: (the following is my opinion of what the captain probably told his crew, I have no evidence for this, and I want to make it clear that I made this briefing up.)

We all know what happened here tonight and it is a tragedy. It happened and there is nothing we can do about it now. Often in our ever vigilant defense of our country, our democracy, accidents happen. But those of us who remain have a clear honor and duty to carry on because we are loyal. Loyal to the flag, loyal to our president and loyal to our country. No purpose no one will be served by discussing this cccident between yourselves or any other person. To do so would be a clear and present danger to your family, your wives, your sons, your daughters, your mothers, your fathers. and your career. When you are dismissed, you will return to your duty and you will have no memory of what happened here tonight.

No offense, but the information that has been presented here and on the web has so far been speculative.

I am curious as to why you think that the US Navy would want to cover up such a case, and how would they go about preventing someone from talking?

I also question your logic for keeping the crews silent. To do so would be an unlawful order, and would be non-punishable if broken.

I am getting more confused than ever, but you are the first person who ever presented information when asked about this topic. The usual response to these kinds of questions is to go do the research myself.

Thanks for your continued dialogue.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
No offense, but the information that has been presented here and on the web has so far been speculative.

I am curious as to why you think that the US Navy would want to cover up such a case, and how would they go about preventing someone from talking?

I also question your logic for keeping the crews silent. To do so would be an unlawful order, and would be non-punishable if broken.

I am getting more confused than ever, but you are the first person who ever presented information when asked about this topic. The usual response to these kinds of questions is to go do the research myself.

Thanks for your continued dialogue.

The problem was that that would have been the 5th airliner that the US Navy has accidentally shot down starting from the Flying Tigers Lockheed Constellation full of soldiers headed for Viet Nam over Guam in 1963 which resulted in FTL getting the lions share of the cargo business for the next 10 years.

Your comment about an unlawful order makes me smile. This is ATS, where you get to hear the truth. Whether or not you believe it is your own business.

Mr. Lear,

All of the above mentioned planes transited through the same area and all met with disaster. The Egypt Air esp. My sister is a ME Phd Candidate and is fluent in Arabic. She has said that the official translation of the pilot whom they claim committed suicide is not accurate. Do you feel there is a link to all these flights?

[edit on 21-9-2004 by FredT]

Originally posted by FredT
Mr. Lear,

All of the above mentioned planes transited through the same area and all met with disaster. The Egypt Air esp. My sister is a ME Phd Candidate and is fluent in Arabic. She has said that the official translation of the pilot whom they claim committed suicide is not accurate. Do you feel there is a link to all these flights?

[edit on 21-9-2004 by FredT]

TWA was a accidental shootdown.
Swissair was a cockpit fire. Interesting thing is that the captain and the co-pilot had to get out of the cockpit because of the fire. They waited in first class for the crash which occurred about 5 minutes later.
Egyptair I still think was suicide but I haven't studied it much.
I don't think there is any link between these 3 crashes.

Originally posted by johnlear
The problem was that that would have been the 5th airliner that the US Navy has accidentally shot down starting from the Flying Tigers Lockheed Constellation full of soldiers headed for Viet Nam over Guam in 1963 which resulted in FTL getting the lions share of the cargo business for the next 10 years.

Can you provide more information on the other cases? This is the first that I have heard/seen of them.

Your comment about an unlawful order makes me smile. This is ATS, where you get to hear the truth. Whether or not you believe it is your own business.

Truth can be a relative thing. Facts, sir, do not lie.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Can you provide more information on the other cases? This is the first that I have heard/seen of them.

Coolhand the one I know of is the Iranian Air flight that was shot down by the USS Vincenes.