What Happened To Etiquette?

Where has it gone? Do parents teach their children proper etiquette anymore? Do adults forget what their parents taught them years ago? Do people not have any common courtesy for others anymore?

Personally, I'm not that uptight about etiquette, but society appears to have reached the point that any resemblance of proper etiquette is hard to find in folks under the age of forty, and it is noticeable.

The majority of people I come across don't chew with their mouths closed. That is one of the most basic, fundamental forms of etiquette, yet more and more I hear people chewing like cows from across a room. Going along with that is talking with a mouth full. Please stop. No one cares what the food inside your mouth looks like.

Please and thank you. When I hear someone under the age of twenty one say please and thank you, it's the exception, not the norm. I regularly hear kids, teens and young adults simply demanding this, or demanding that.

Holding the door open for women and children, or even just the next person walking through the door. Are people now so caught up in their own lives, and so oblivious to everyone else they don't even realize someone might be following them through the same door they're walking through, let alone turn and look to see if someone else is coming. I see people walking through and not holding doors open for women carrying a baby. Upsetting.

Washing hands after using the restroom. This speaks for itself. Yet, how often do we see people go #1 or #2, and not wash their hands? Daily. Disgusting.

Coughing without covering mouth. I see this somewhat frequently. You have to be an idiot not to know when you cough you're launching germs out of your mouth at hurricane speeds. Therefor, I take it just don't care. Good day to you.

Constantly sniffling. How about blowing your nose? I know cold weather and illness effects this to a degree, but how often are you sitting somewhere and someone just keeps going on and on with their sniffling, and there are tissues or napkins in the room on full display? Why can't you stop in the bathroom and grab a paper towel or two? Why not bring a couple tissues with you knowing you're sick? Not everyone wants to hear it, especially during meals, meetings, tests, and things of that nature.

Cutting lines, clogging aisles. See it most often in the grocery store, yet never fail to see it in just about every other location as well. That is, the people who are so wrapped up in whatever it is they're doing, other people don't even register on their radar. Leaving your cart in the middle of an aisle blocking everyone else, and not even noticing. Cutting lines everywhere from banks to supermarkets and school drop off/pickup zones. Please people, it's not all about you.

Kids screaming in public and running amuck. Kids don't know what parents don't teach them. The idea of running around the bank, the store or a restaurant as a kid, screaming at the top of my lungs never was an option. At the least, I would have had a few hours in my room to think about it, of course without the computers and ipads kids have now. Do parents just not care how their screaming kids are an annoyance to everyone else? This isn't about parents not being able to discipline either. As a parent, you should be able to teach your kid a few manners, and rules about public behavior without spanking them. On too many occasions I see parents simply ignore the actions of their kids, as they're too caught up in planning their next Starbucks meetup.

I know I left out a number of examples, from table manners to cursing around mixed company. I just notice, sadly, manners and etiquette appear to increasingly becoming a things of the past. Do people just not know how to interact with others now that electronics do everything for them? Have parents forgotten what their parents once taught them? Do people just not have much common courtesy anymore? Do they even care?

out the window....

As social animals, we learn from others. So when the media shows us rude, unmannerly, etiquette-ignoring buffoons as heros and as role models, guess what we learn?

Yup.

Hubby's got on some sort of semi-reality show about swamp logging, and they're a pack of foul-mouthed bufoons with no manners (I'd swear the dog sitting on the boat is smarter than any of them.) Apparently they can't find any better people to tell stories about.

I don't have much to add other than that I completely agree with you. I'm 21 and barely did any of these before (Pissed off teen), but have really changed the last few years. I hope others do too.

As a side note: I also didn't care much for learning, but now put high value on intellectualism. I guess that's the effect ATS has.

Originally posted by Indellkoffer
As social animals, we learn from others. So when the media shows us rude, unmannerly, etiquette-ignoring buffoons as heros and as role models, guess what we learn?

Yup.

Hubby's got on some sort of semi-reality show about swamp logging, and they're a pack of foul-mouthed bufoons with no manners (I'd swear the dog sitting on the boat is smarter than any of them.) Apparently they can't find any better people to tell stories about.

Bingo.

Jersey Shore
The Real Housewives of...
The Apprentice
Jersey[licious/wedding/whatever]

The list goes on and on...mindless drivel turning our worst characteristics into entertaining virtues.

Bingo... you hit the nail on the head... good post.

I believe, based on years of personal observations, and by having two chidren who teach grade school that this phenomena is caused by a lack of parenting, parenting by those caught in the vicious cycle of a lack of parenting and insert the word 'under-educated' at your leisure.

reply to post by MysticPearl


I think the forcing of etiquette is what caused its demise. A few generations ago it was a social demand rather then a choice.
At the end of the day who cares, humans waste a lot of time doing things that dont need to be done; I say stop worrying about these things and you will find you enjoy your time much more then if you are constantly worrying about wether the toilet seat is down.

reply to post by MysticPearl

I completely agree.
Much of it comes from the lack of good parenting skills in the home. Additionally, and I think this is where parents make a big mistake, is in letting their children watch virtually any show they want on tv.
Take a look at what the average sitcom has in terms of content today. First of all, most of them have kids that show absolutely no respect to their parents or other adults, or even each other.
Gone are shows where there is a moral to teach. Instead, most teach bad behavior as a way to get what they want. In addition, adults display such bad behavior when they participate in things like the "Black Friday" riots at Walmart, and other stores, in a mad dash attempt to acquire goods.
One further example is our current political situation, where there is absolutely no respect of anyone that holds differing positions.
Children learn by example, and the example today both in the home, and in society is "get what you can, any way you can, and the heck with civility."
Good post OP. Starred and Flagged

Live and let live. Those that are idiotic in how they present themselves and family heritage will not stay long in your life as you will naturally rid yourself of them. Yes, since you, us and I are part of the general public, we see alot of scary trends and people.

Originally posted by Indellkoffer
As social animals, we learn from others. So when the media shows us rude, unmannerly, etiquette-ignoring buffoons as heros and as role models, guess what we learn?

Yup.

Hubby's got on some sort of semi-reality show about swamp logging, and they're a pack of foul-mouthed bufoons with no manners (I'd swear the dog sitting on the boat is smarter than any of them.) Apparently they can't find any better people to tell stories about.

As a middle school teacher this is the attitude I see all the time. It's always the fault of someone else. Sorry, but it is not the fault of TV it's the fault of the people who raise the kids. At my school the kids who have the best manners are also the kids whose parents show up for parent-teacher conferences, at their extra-curricular events and the ones who will tell that mom and dad (or just mom or dad if they only have one) checks up on their work, offers to help, etc. The worst mannered kids have parents who don't care what's going on at school or in their lives.

TV is not the reason, the attitude of the people raising the kids is the reason.

I would have posted this in rant, but as its social I can see it here.

To be honest, I don't think it matters anymore. We are truly in a gimme society, whats that old marriage adage? Whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine?

I remember when I was about six and I said "Shut Up" to my younger brother, my mopther admonished me for not being polite. Years later when she was in a nursing home, she smiled and said "Hello" to every nurse's aid who walked into the room. She was raised to be (what she called) "a lady" and she never lost that politeness, even at death's door.

You just don't see that any more. I believe we have lost our ability to teach "character." For many years I never even knew what that word meant in terms of human behavior. It's not that my mother did not try to teach me; it's just that her efforts were not enough. She needed help she did not have. I lacked "character" and made many mistakes, some of them quite serious, because I simply did not understand the concept. Some people lost their lives. No, I didn't "do" it, but my lack of character helped create an atmosphere that contributed to their demise.

Now that I think I do at least understand character, it's rather late, so the only thing I can do is ask forgiveness and hope I do better next time.

TV is not the reason, the attitude of the people raising the kids is the reason.

reply to post by backwherewestarted

Actually it is both, in the sense that, yes, parents have a huge influence in what a child learns, and yes parent involvement with a child's education, does have a very positive effect. However, in today's society, unfortunately, so does mass media. Parents cannot be with children 24 by 7, and when they are not, other factors, including media and peer pressure, influence their thoughts and actions. You may not like that, but it is true. Study after study concluded that. Let me just give one example. You can find hundreds more:

According to the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), "Children are influenced by media–they learn by observing, imitating, and making behaviors their own" (2001, p.1224). The influence of media on children has been the subject of increased attention among parents, educators, and health care professionals. The significance of this issue becomes obvious when one notes the diversity of Americans who share this concern. Included in this group of concerned citizens are those, most notably politicians, who typically stand in opposition to one another on many issues, but who stand together in agreement on this one.

Media influence on children has steadily increased as new and more sophisticated types of media have been developed and made available to the American public. Availability, as well as greater affordability for American families, has provided easier access to media for children. Beneficial effects include early readiness for learning, educational enrichment, opportunities to view or participate in discussions of social issues, exposure to the arts through music and performance, and entertainment. Harmful effects may result from sensationalization of violent behavior, exposure to subtle or explicit sexual content, promotion of unrealistic body images, presentation of poor health habits as desirable practices, and exposure to persuasive advertising targeting children.

Read more: Influence on Children Media - History of Media for Children, General Considerations, Studies of Media Influence, Domains of Influence, Recommendations - StateUniversity.com education.stateuniversity.com...

education.stateuniversity.com...

If you ARE a certified teacher, then you have been educated on these facts, and if you haven't, I strongly suggest that you take some supplementary courses. In today's age, it is unheard of, for teacher to continue to be able to teach, without continuing education.

You may not like the conclusion of those studies, but that does not affect their validity.

Talk to any parent that has raised many children, and you will find that although each of their children were raised the same way, the outcomes were different in terms of behavior.

Mean people suck.

When people no longer give away what is simply free...a smile...a 'please'...a 'thank you'....you know the world is in really bad shape.

People still say Thanks from what I see

Still hold the door for me too

Maybe you look scary?
As people age they can look mean for no reason lol

Originally posted by OldCurmudgeon
Bingo... you hit the nail on the head... good post.

I believe, based on years of personal observations, and by having two chidren who teach grade school that this phenomena is caused by a lack of parenting, parenting by those caught in the vicious cycle of a lack of parenting and insert the word 'under-educated' at your leisure.

I tend to agree with this. I also agree with others who said media plays a role, but I do not think that plays as much of a role as parenting, or lack of.

Growing kids don't spend more time in front of the tv than with their parents, and if they do, that's the parents fault. If your kid acts out, or in a disrespectful way, you don't let him/her get away with it simply because it was on tv. You explain that is not the proper way to carry yourself, and if it continues, no more tv for you.

Blaming it mostly on media is an excuse, in my opinion. of course kids are affected by what they watch, but they aren't buying the tv's, ipads, laptops, and paying the internet and cable bill. It's the parents who provide all that, and because of that, it's their responsibility to police the use.

I mean, many adults have enjoyed porn at some point. If you had a dvd, and your 7 year old found it and watched it, you can't just blame it on the porn industry and that most adults might watch porn. No, it's responsibility to shield your young kid from it. Same with media. As a parent, it's your responsibility to shield you child from things which will cause negative development and/or actions, and when you see those negative actions, use it as a teaching moment and make it clear that isn't the way to conduct yourself.

Can't give kids tv's and computers in their bedrooms, and not take responsibility for how it may affect them. There's a simple solution from when I grew up, although technology was different back then, even though I'm not even thirty yet. No tv is the bedroom. No tv on school nights. No computer unless it's for homework on school nights. No r rated movies until you're older. All falls back to parents not wanting to parent.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

TV is not the reason, the attitude of the people raising the kids is the reason.

reply to post by backwherewestarted

 

Actually it is both, in the sense that, yes, parents have a huge influence in what a child learns, and yes parent involvement with a child's education, does have a very positive effect. However, in today's society, unfortunately, so does mass media. Parents cannot be with children 24 by 7, and when they are not, other factors, including media and peer pressure, influence their thoughts and actions. You may not like that, but it is true. Study after study concluded that. Let me just give one example. You can find hundreds more:

According to the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), "Children are influenced by media–they learn by observing, imitating, and making behaviors their own" (2001, p.1224). The influence of media on children has been the subject of increased attention among parents, educators, and health care professionals. The significance of this issue becomes obvious when one notes the diversity of Americans who share this concern. Included in this group of concerned citizens are those, most notably politicians, who typically stand in opposition to one another on many issues, but who stand together in agreement on this one.

Media influence on children has steadily increased as new and more sophisticated types of media have been developed and made available to the American public. Availability, as well as greater affordability for American families, has provided easier access to media for children. Beneficial effects include early readiness for learning, educational enrichment, opportunities to view or participate in discussions of social issues, exposure to the arts through music and performance, and entertainment. Harmful effects may result from sensationalization of violent behavior, exposure to subtle or explicit sexual content, promotion of unrealistic body images, presentation of poor health habits as desirable practices, and exposure to persuasive advertising targeting children.

Read more: Influence on Children Media - History of Media for Children, General Considerations, Studies of Media Influence, Domains of Influence, Recommendations - StateUniversity.com education.stateuniversity.com...

education.stateuniversity.com...

If you ARE a certified teacher, then you have been educated on these facts, and if you haven't, I strongly suggest that you take some supplementary courses. In today's age, it is unheard of, for teacher to continue to be able to teach, without continuing education.

You may not like the conclusion of those studies, but that does not affect their validity.

Talk to any parent that has raised many children, and you will find that although each of their children were raised the same way, the outcomes were different in terms of behavior.

I am certified and I do take continuing education. I am also smart enough to look at what the facts are based on what I, my fellow teachers and other teachers and coaches I know see every day. Studies are easily manipulated, reality is not.

P.S.- I appreciate you talking down to me and treating me like an ass. I guess you are an excellent example of this thread.

While the loss of manners and etiquette is sad, it is yet another factor that separates the noble, thinking person with some sense of worth from the ever falling masses of mindless cattle that litter the world nowadays. But, on the other hand, I have seen children raised in dirt-poor families with love, a firm hand, and an all abiding law for minding manners while brats from well-to-do families turn into selfish, shallow nitwits who only know how to leach.

Originally posted by backwherewestarted
[As a middle school teacher this is the attitude I see all the time. It's always the fault of someone else. Sorry, but it is not the fault of TV it's the fault of the people who raise the kids. At my school the kids who have the best manners are also the kids whose parents show up for parent-teacher conferences, at their extra-curricular events and the ones who will tell that mom and dad (or just mom or dad if they only have one) checks up on their work, offers to help, etc. The worst mannered kids have parents who don't care what's going on at school or in their lives.

TV is not the reason, the attitude of the people raising the kids is the reason.

I would also point out that parents are learning THEIR skills from the social media. In the 80's, we did have shows like the Cosby Show, which showed how parents and kids could interact positively and how parents interacted with the rest of society. With the "scripted reality" shows, this is not the focus of the story. The focus is conflict and the attractive naughtiness of rudeness. None of these people are shown interacting with the rest of the community, and their rudeness and bravado is what gets them on the air.

We are losing our stories.

The shows with good family relationships are few and far between. Books where good family relationships are at the core (even kids' books) are very scarce. We had A SWIFTLY TILTING PLANET, and NARNIA, and many other books for our childhood. Once you get beyond NOODLE AND LOU and DR. SEUSS, novels for young adults are dark and gritty and the people shown there are mannerless.

And one of the most annoying paradigms is "get rid of mom first."

Anyway -- I'd argue that these parents have been shown tv show parenting and tv show interactions with tv spouses. George Takei had a video where (brokering peace between Star Trek and Star Wars fans against the threat of Twilight) where he mentions the dearth of stories where people work as teams and work things out instead of being brutal to everyone.

I think George nailed it, personally.

reply to post by Indellkoffer


That's because mothers think their view is the only right one. I should know, I have one.