The Devil's Chord: The conspiracy to open the portal of consciousness and mystery of the octave

curious sight n sound contrast employed in this under a minute long vid
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUUrVzL6eEE
religion science and music are 99% wixfap servicing warboys and their wartoys
but if the ookuwpiet movement discovers compostanda wwuuuuaaaatch out!!!!!

reply to post by poetpiet

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by fulllotusqigong

 

The semitone is the difference between the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth as the Tritone.

The difference between a fourth and a fifth is a tone, not a semitone.

This is kindergarten stuff.

Wow I should have realized you didn't even quote my full sentence!!

You added a period to my sentence and cut off half the sentence!! Your reply to my supposed quote is based on a confabulation that you created!!

Here's what I wrote:

The semitone is the difference between the Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth as the Tritone -- so the Semitone like the Tritone also has the same paradox of pitch difference

O.K. so I can see why you might have been confused because then in my reply -- that you improperly quote -- I mention how the fourth and the fifth are switched by a semitone.

I'm talking about moving a semitone up or down in both directions so it resolves as a whole tone.

Here's what I wrote:

So they take a fifth and go to the fourth by semitones or vice versa:

So if you didn't have the music theory training -- or didn't look at the source of the quote I used -- then you might be confused.

Originally posted by ThoughtForms



your ignorance is baffling. Sound can be rhythmic without containing a 'tone' per se, earthquakes aren't melodies is what he's getting at. no ones denying the heart makes sound, that would be stupid.

-TF

Most instruments are also subject to non-linear effects in the production of the sound, e.g. when the superposition of waves produces partials that cannot be explained by a simple theory. (The next lecture will consider some non-linearities in the production and detection of sound.)

from Physics of Music

For example, intervals with small-integer frequency ratios (e.g., justly tuned octaves—2:1, perfect fifths—3:2, or perfect fourths—4:3), or intervals that closely approximate such ratios (as in equal temperament), are structurally important across musical cultures, including those of India, China, Africa, and Western Europe (Burns, 1999; Meyer, 1956; Schellenberg & Trehub, 1994b; Trehub, Schellenberg, & Hill, 1997).

Asymmetries in the Discrimination of Musical Intervals: Going Out-of-Tune Is More Noticeable Than Going In-Tune E . G L EN N S CHE L L EN B E R G University of Toronto

While a number of theories have been advanced to account for why musical consonance is related to simple frequency ratios, as yet there is no completely satisfying explanation. Here, we explore the theory of synchronization properties of ensembles of coupled neural oscillators to demonstrate why simple frequency ratios may have achieved a special status and why they are important for auditory perception. The analysis shows that the mode-locked states ordering give precisely the standard ordering of consonance as often listed in Western music theory. Our results thus indicate the importance of neural synchrony in musical perception.

Perception of musical consonance and dissonance: an outcome of neural synchronization Inbal Shapira Lots and Lewi Stone*

The stability interval of 1 : 1 is marked by ΔΩ1, 1 : 2 by ΔΩ2 and 2 : 3 by ΔΩ3. The complete set of mode-locked states is referred to as a Devil's staircase (Schuster 1995) and is a universal feature of driven coupled oscillators.

O.K. so now we have the Devil's Staircase -- the Perfect Fourth and Perfect Fifth and Octave as the foundation for nonlinear coupled oscillators -- quantum chaos as synchronized alchemy.

From schillerinstitute.org:

the natural C=256 tuning is grounded in the physical laws of our universe

Assuming the above statement is untrue, according to the premise of this thread, because it's based on frequency measured, in error, spatially - then, how should the physical laws of our universe be expressed?

Forget healing for the time being.

Just talk music, please.

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by DenyObfuscation

 

but how are they created-measured-repeated. how is a p4 or p5 determined on an instrument in non west? forget logs. what makes it a true 3:2 more than pythagoras method?

There's no point asking the OP. He can't answer this, or any other question put to him.

and despite all the many tens of thousands of years from that primeval time to this, we still find ensembles of pipes and panpipes, still cut from lengths of cane, still tuned, in a great many cases (though not all), more or less according to the system described in the story of the Yellow Bell, based on the simple whole number ratios, 2/3 and 4/3.

O.K. that was in my response to the original question - it clearly answers the question.

edit on 18-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)

The Otto 128 vibrates a perfect fifth pulse that can be placed on the body and transmitted directly into joints, bones, tissues, acupuncture points, and trigger points. Using the Otto 128 two times on any one point is adequate. Too much stimulation can cause a decrease in nitric oxide.

More from John Beaulieu -- he is awesome

edit on 18-2-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)

You presented your conspiracy theory in a public forum. This is not peer review. Keep in mind that you are not being questioned by people who have written their masters thesis on music theory and alchemy.

So you have drawn a distinction without an apparent difference. haha. You have presented nothing to support your assertion. According to your replies, a ratio must be geographically variable. 3:2 and 4:3 are alchemically transmuted to mystical indefinite values upon departure from the west. How in the name of dragonball z is nonwestern string division by the same ratios an explanation of the question? The answer is not in a vid, it is not in me and apparently it can't be found in you.

Contrast a cathedral tuned to resonate via purposeful design with a building constructed without harmonic consideration.



As evidenced in this thread, some people create harmony, others dissonance. What's funny is the responses in this thread can be used as a metaphor to add to the plethora of data the OP has provided. The armchair judges who can't grasp the subject matter--and it is deep and somewhat outlier to common understanding--can only shoot arrows at what violates their own belief system. The information in this thread flies a mile over the head of some and doesn't jive with their own paradigms. The ego then needs to defend rather than refute with opposing examples. Much easier to shoot arrows with a bow of ignorance than to lay down the weapon and seek wisdom--which most often involves silence.

While the OP patiently explains and links and sources information, some of us are soaking it up and coming to new understandings. If you don't agree, provide some opposing sources to back up your slams.

This thread is like having someone explain how a heavy aircraft can fly to someone who has only experience with a kite. "How can it fly if it weighs so much?" "There's no string long enough for that thing to fly so far!" "Where are the sticks & paper?"

Amazing thread Drew. Thank you for sharing your years of work and writing. I'm plowing through 600+ pages of one of your works and it is allowing me to reach a new plateau in understanding--things that go hand in hand with what I've been experiencing through meditation, music, the body electric, and more. Funny how those who want to ridicule don't provide anything they've studied or written to refute.

Fulllotus...every once in a while something comes through....and then you F' (or is it F#) it up!! LOL.

What are folks getting irate over? Do you WANT to make your point clear? Assuming you care, simplify man, simplify. Forget all the videos and links to scientific treatises, no one has time to read/watch them all and some that I have watched had no real bearing on anything. You get close and then you run away...

The Tritone is the extreme limit of the Western logarithmic tuning system -- it is the most dissonant and so it called the "Devil's Interval" by the medieval church -- and banned. My position is that the Tritone reveals a deeper secret -- the Tritone reveals the extreme limit of Western tuning but also is a portal to the secret of complementary opposites. So the exact ambiguity of pitch tuning with the tritone again reveals this structural limitation of the Hertz tuning system in general.

Ok, so I see a glimpse of what you are getting at, agree or disagree, doesn't matter. First of all, the Hertz isn't a tuning method. The Hertz is a unit of measure, tis all. Any sound can be measured in hertz, which is a great way to explore sound.

The Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth intervals are not the Western fifth and fourth of the logarithmic tuning.

The perfect fifth occurs as the natural 3rd overtone of any given note, any frequency. Since it occurs naturally, I tend to give it great value as one of the most defined and set note intervals including the octave.

In the West there is sometimes a tingling sensation from music -- the chills -- technically called "frisson" -- it is considered to form from the creation of harmonic beats -- so when the female voice sings high pitch there are more beats due to the more overtone harmonics closer together and these beats then create a stronger amplitude subharmonic.

This occurs everywhere, not just the west. Again, understanding frequency can illustrate when/why this happens.

A true (just) perfect 5th contains no beating, because it is a true 3 : 2 ratio.

This was quoted by the OP from an outside source. It needs clarification. Any note, any frequency standing alone contains no 'beating' 'Beating' occurs when played next to the original note. Technically there is still beating, it is just not abrasive because of its complimentary frequency. A starting note of 100hz gives us a fifth of 150hz, you can see the relation. This yields a difference of 50hz, which is 'beating' but at a rate that fits nicely to our ears.

Sound is something we listen to so there's no need for a visual measurement.

Kind of a cop out when we're trying to discuss a theory, eh.

The whole tone/semitone between the fourth and the fifth debate. I would climb up two semitones (a whole tone) to reach a fifth from a fourth. There is a semitone from one to the tritone in either direction. I think this debate is just wording. 3, 4, 5 example, there is one number 'between 3 and 5 (semitone) but it is 2 to go one end to the other (whole tone).

I agree with Mary, leave the healing stuff out, not because it doesn't matter but because it clutters the topic.

In a nutshell Fulllotus, are you saying that a note divided at the perfect fifth should from the other side of that point be a perfect fourth? And because it isn't by accepted standards, therein lies the 'conspiracy' which then points to the tritone as being that point where the 'true' perfect fifth and fourth would be?

Am I close? Keep it simple puuleaaaassseee.

If this is the case I see the flaw both in your logic and western logic. If the above is your line of thinking then the problem lies with using a western system's names to define what doesn't work with that system. For example, using inches but measuring in decimals. Seems like point to argue is that this note (the tritone) represents some specific and useful frequency forgotten or hidden and should be explored. Ok, I can buy that, but to expect set terms like the fourth and fifth (both east and west cultures) to be redefined is troubling.

The other sticking point is when people visualize a note or use a string to find an interval there is the tendency to look the the other half. This is wrong thinking, there is no other half. You take a tone floating in mid air, let's say it is 3 feet long. If you half it you get an octave and both halves by definition are the same, but the note now exists as a 1.5 foot note, not two. If we use the 3:2 ratio to find the fifth we only have that note, the note exists now as a new note based off of the root but not a leftover of it. We can not look at the portion of string behind our fretting finger, only the point from the fretting finger forward that is being sounded. It isn't the string but the note created.

If we start from either end, say left to right to find the fifth, we can also start from right to left and find the fifth but they do not meet because the we're starting from different points, hence we can only start in one direction in finding the intervals. Though Pythagoras used a stringed monochord to illustrate intervals he only went in one direction to find each interval.

A little about myself for reference. I have been a musician for over 35 years, grew up in a musical environment and listen to and play all sorts of styles. I have also mastered some award winning CD's, built/designed and repaired musical instruments. I also have worked in sound therapy on and off over the years. I've explored all manner of sound and am very receptive to alternative thoughts in music/sound. So, I'm not coming from a 'western' mind set per se, that one way is 'right'. This is my interest, I just believe Fulllotus needs to speak to his audience better and more concisely.

One thing I've come to realize is that even the most schooled musician often has no clue in how sound works.

Another thing I've realized from working with people in the sound therapy community is that 90% of them have little understanding of the mechanics of sound or the origins of accepted approaches. It is frustrating to me to read things like 'listen to your heart', I get it, I really do but it does little to uncover what actually happens.

reply to post by UncleV

a note divided at the perfect fifth should from the other side of that point be a perfect fourth?

I think this has something to do with golden ratio... A point of perception, but yes, that's exactly what I have also understood.

By the way - what is the maximum off-tune relation for a tune to be considered as off-tune? Is there a mathematical formula for this? ... Just asking.

Originally posted by JackTheTripper
By the way - what is the maximum off-tune relation for a tune to be considered as off-tune? Is there a mathematical formula for this? ... Just asking.

Excellent question -- the answer is in the last link I gave.

So if you look at this chart they include

Ordering of consonances for two-tone intervals from Helmholtz (1877, pp. 183 and 194) as accepted in the Western musical culture in decreasing order of ‘perfection’ from most consonant to most dissonant. (See also table 5.2 in Roederer (1975, p. 141). The third column lists the frequency ratios of the two tones as set out in Helmholtz (1877). The fourth column lists ΔΩ, the width of the stability interval (see text and figure 4), that is associated with each musical interval as determined numerically using equations (4.1) and (4.3) with ϵ=5, α=100, τ1=τ2=1. Being dissonances, the minor second and tritone have extremely small stability intervals making them difficult to identify.)

Basically it's stated that the Helmholtz beat model is lacking and that the minor second and tritone are "off the chart" in terms of the Helmholtz beat model.

Also the paper then states that it's the Perfect Fifth and Octave that are the harmonics driving neural synchronization as nonlinear oscillators.

That is, consonance is not just the absence of roughness but determined by neural processing in the auditory cortex. Itoh et al. (2003) reached this conclusion by studying the auditory evoked potentials indicative of cortical activity response. Of the intervals studied (1, 4, 6, 7, 9 semitones), they found that in all cases the evoked potentials were at their highest (in terms of voltage) for two pure tones separated by a perfect fifth (7 semitones) when compared with other intervals. These results provide electrophysiological evidence that matches behavioural preference for simple frequency ratios. Given that pure tones only were made use of in the experiments, this preference has nothing to do with the beating of harmonics which forms the basis of Helmholtz's theory (1877).

Originally posted by UncleV
A little about myself for reference. I have been a musician for over 35 years, grew up in a musical environment and listen to and play all sorts of styles. I have also mastered some award winning CD's, built/designed and repaired musical instruments. I also have worked in sound therapy on and off over the years. I've explored all manner of sound and am very receptive to alternative thoughts in music/sound. So, I'm not coming from a 'western' mind set per se, that one way is 'right'. This is my interest, I just believe Fulllotus needs to speak to his audience better and more concisely.

One thing I've come to realize is that even the most schooled musician often has no clue in how sound works.

Another thing I've realized from working with people in the sound therapy community is that 90% of them have little understanding of the mechanics of sound or the origins of accepted approaches. It is frustrating to me to read things like 'listen to your heart', I get it, I really do but it does little to uncover what actually happens.

O.K. I appreciate your background -- what I am specifically stating is to practice the "small universe" exerice aka the "microcosmic orbit" as the 12 notes of the music scale -- practice it as a scale -- only practice it along the outside of the body/mind.

So as I stated -- I had this insight about Pythagorean theory and then I realized it was the same as yin and yang and then I discovered the 12 notes of the small universe practice as yin and yang.

I did the practice. Just like someone training for music performance -- I practice six hours a day -- doing the small universe. I created very strong electromagnetic fields in my body and I did healing and I had telepathy and telekinesis and I saw dead spirits and I also pulled someone's spirit out of the top of their skull without touching them.

So I'm talking about something way more powerful than "sound healing" is normally considered. I have yet to find a "sound therapist" who recommends the "small universe" practice and I have contacted John Goldman to get him to recommend it but thus far have not seen it.

John Beaulieau was the first to clue me in on the Perfect Fourth/Perfect Fifth yin yang connection.

So this is not about left-brain music theory analysis. I'm sorry. haha. So if you want to learn of a "sound healer" then I recommend the real qigong masters like Effie P. Chow and Chunyi Lin -- both people I've posted on here.

Also Wang Liping - read the book of his training "Opening the Dragon Gate" -- he had to first learn to sit in full lotus yoga position for four hours nonstop.

So the full lotus or padmasana yoga position is a tetrahedron made up of four equilateral triangle each made of two 2-3-4 triangles or 3-4-5. It's complementary opposites so it's not based on the irrational number -- the "sacre geometry" resonates to infinity as a singularity.

Nonlinear harmonic oscillator as quantum chaos or quantum relativity if you want to trace it back to science.

On page 149 of the Deterministic Chaos book reference in the harmonic "Devils Staircase" neuron synchronization paper there is the image chart of the Devil's Staircase with the focus on the Octave and the Perfect Fifth as the basis for the nonlinear harmonic oscillator



Master Zhang, qigong master, does his Pyramid Meditation as full lotus pyramid power -- he does a month long fast in full lotus in the caves in China -- taking no water, no food and no sleep the whole time. This is how Chunyi Lin trained to be a qigong master as well.

so this is very intense stuff -- completely unknown to the West except for a handful of qigong masters whom I have mentioned.

According to the West you can't go a month without sleep, without water and without food.

I went 8 days on half a glass of water and I had super strong electromagnetic fields filling my body.

Again I did this as the 12 notes of the yin-yang music scale as the "small universe" practice that leads to the full lotus practice.

So Master Zhang is talking about the "joyful music of the heart" for his pyramid power meditation

Originally posted by UncleV

Simple Answer. 1) Devil's Interval is the Tritone. 2) The Harmonic Series diverges so it's the "invention of the Devil." 3) The Devil's Staircase is the nonlinear quantum chaos harmonic oscillator of the Perfect Fifth and Octave. That's the Simple Answer -- a triangulation of evidence for the Perfect Fifth/Perfect Fourth as the secret to alchemy.

Now to reply to your comments and so by necessity I have to be messy. O.K. your summary of what you thought I said is not what I was saying. I understand that 2/3 is only that part of the string and not the other side of the node. The point I'm making is that the math used to make the divisions relies on "means" so it inherently relies on more than one interval at a time and to do this there has to be a change from 2/3 to 3/2. So there has to be a "doubling" -- and not just an inversion. This makes it a changing of order or a noncommutative dynamic and that makes it a nonlinear harmonic oscillator. It's not a simple tone - - it resonates infinitely as undertones and overtones. It's the harmonic series so it diverges. It violates the Law of Pythagoras as defined by logarithmic mathematics.

The Greeks achieved the geometric ability to tune an equal-tempered monochord when Archytas, Plato's Pythagorean friend, solved the problem of doubling the volume of the god's cubical altar at Delphi, the allegorical form of the problem of establishing the third root of 2. Now the cube root of 2 establishes an equal tempered major third within the monochord octave....From that beginning, the equal-tempered whole tone is the geometric mean within the major third, and the equal-tempered semitone is the geometric mean within the whole tone. Iterations of this procedure will produce all twelve-tones in equal-temperament. The necessity of tempering the pure intervals, defined by the ratios of integers, is one of the great themes of Plato's Republic. In his allegorical form, “citizens” modelled on the tones of the scale must not demand “exactly what they are owed,” but must keep in mind “what is best for the city.”219

219 Ernest McClain, The Myth of Invariance: The Origins of the Gods, Mathematics and Music from the Rig Veda
to Plato (Nicolas-Hays, Inc., 1976), p. 11.

We can't separate this issue from healing and not even from politics -- because that's why it's a conspiracy.

The use of music strings – either the monochord or a lute – became a new connection where now geometric length using phonetic letters also was arithmetic number as harmonics. The music ratios were then a cognitive breakthrough for the Greek Miracle. Peter Pesic has analyzed ancient music mathematics and also understands this secret connection: “Commutative versus noncommutative lies at the heart of causality itself.”223 On music ratios David Creese writes, “arithmetically limited geometrical entities (line segments representing numerable quantities) became the visual intermediary between numbers and notes.” (p. 173)

223 Peter Pesic, Abel's Proof: An essay on the sources and meaning of mathematical unsolvability (M.I.T. Press, 2004), p. 142. David Creese, The Monochord in Ancient Greek Harmonic Science (Cambridge University Press, 2010),

So first of all it's now established that music theory was the secret source for the square root of two - the Tritone as the Devil's Interval but also the foundation for the Western or "Greek Miracle" -- the irrational number.

But the deeper secret is the issue of commutative identity -- A x B = B x A.

So you can agree that the overtone series is C to G is 2:3 and G to C is 3:4. But as I stated the diatonic relies on 2/3x as F to C and this is the "subharmonic" -- NOT the frequency of the Perfect Fifth. So then 3/2x is C to G as the Perfect Fifth frequency, NOT the subharmonic. O.K. so the scale is frequency as inversion of wavelength but this rule is broken for the Perfect Fourth since it has to be a subharmonic of the Perfect Fifth and then it has to be doubled into a frequency as 4/3x is C to F. So 2/3x as is the equivalent of the Law of Phase Harmony. The frequency is going higher as 4/3x but the time is slowing down as 2/3x - the subharmonic of 3 -- or the subharmonic as 1/3 which is the inversion of the frequency 2/3 of the third harmonic G.

Now as you pointed out just because the subharmonic is used this does not mean time is perceived as slowing down -- but then I countered that I'm talking about a nonlinear harmonic oscillator so that because it is a subharmonic at the same time it is an overtone harmonic there is a nonlinear feedback that goes into the extremes of sound -- ultrasound and ELF waves.

reply to post by UncleV


O.K. on the Pythagorean monochord -- just for the record -- it's not proven that a monochord was used at all.

As I've stated the conspiracy is that there is a great misunderstanding about Pythagorean philosophy.

This is not a "theory" but experiential learning as in practicing a music scale. The Pythagoreans had to practice silence for nine years and their philosophy was not "All is Number" as is taught -- it was "All is Number and Harmony." The Harmony of the Tetrad is that number is based on complementary opposites -- so 1 is male and 2 is female and 3 is male and the source of 1 is the Apeiron as the Cosmic Mother - the female formlessness or Harmonia, the Goddess.

So this is the same as Taoist training meditation -- it is the secret of sound turning into paranormal energy.

It's not a left-brain theory.

My point is when everyone thinks they know about Pythagoras what they have really learned is Archytas! Archytas was not a real Pythagorean!

So Archytas then took the double octave, the “Greater Perfect System,” as four but it is also the square of the octave used by Pythagorean number theory. The result is that four times or the square of the weight to stretch the string now makes twice the frequency, instead of half the frequency at double the string length. This was the “bait and switch” trick that was the direct inspiration, later, for Newton’s inverse square law of gravity!242

Of course the other tenet attributed to Pythagoras is the Pythagorean Theorem – but we’ve now seen it’s actually based on Archytas! In other words the 9/8 major 2nd music interval is from the double octave of 9/4 as the perfect fifth mathematically expanded – 3 squared/2 squared. This 9/4 is then halved back into the octave as 9/8 and the 9/8 is then cubed as the tritone music interval, the Devil’s Interval, which is also the square root of two. 2/3 as 666 is reversed to 3/2
and then the infinite spiral of fifths – the Great Dragon Tuning – is now the closed circle– the
sinusoid – that is squared as 3/2 squared. As Bowen emphasized, this bait and switch or
reversing the order of infinity, from 2/3 to 3/2, had to take place for the Babylonian algebraic
equation to hold true – arithmetic mean times harmonic mean equals geometric mean squared.

242 James H. Bunn, Wave Forms: A Natural Syntax for Rhythmic Languages (Stanford University Press, 2002)
citing “Newton and the Pipes of Pan” from Notes and Records of the Royal Society of London, 1966.

reply to post by elmoastro


Thanks -- all I can really do is encourage people to seek out a real qigong master who can see inside people's bodies and who can transmit laser healing energy long distance and who can create multiple "yin spirit" bodies out of the top of their heads -- spirit bodies that go out to heal people.

Check out qigong master Effie P. Chow in action!!