I am an imposter in Church

reply to post by Paschar0

You can believe it is his word as much as you want, but it's nothing more than a belief, one that right now I don't share.

The bible isn't the word of God my friend...

Jesus is the word of God...

Originally posted by Paschar0
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

Pointing to scripture as the reason for doing anything is a major problem I've stated from the beginning. I don't consider it the word of God. I'm not denying God in any way because I'm not convinced he said any of those things "through" anyone. You can believe it is his word as much as you want, but it's nothing more than a belief, one that right now I don't share. I may like to, it would make things much easier, but it's just not the way it is. I approach it as possible, but very unlikely. It's not to mean I dismiss the entire message of the bible as a whole, I just don't consider it "THE WORD OF GOD".

With that, it's hard to discuss further with most, because they keep trying to go back to it for almost every point they try to make. Surely there is more to one's belief than what's in a book. I would hope so anyway.

I think that maybe I can clarify a bit for you ...
The Word is Jesus and the scriptures are inspired through the Holy Spirit. It is actually two different things.
Faith is a process... It may start very small with whatever is resonating inside of you and grow to the level of a Saint. But the process is usually gradual, and somebody called by God that makes every effort to understand Him through scripture AND prayer sees their faith grow day by day. If you are not going to attempt to seriously read scripture so that Our Father can show you that it is true, you put yourself in a hopeless position. Study to show yourself approved ... As you study, He teaches. We start our relationship that way, and like any relationship, it grows. Every saint heard Him speak... And were TOLD by the Holy Spirit to go here and there...

I'll give an example. Scripture repeatedly mentions Our Father "speaking" at night and morning, Jesus praying at night and early in the morning....Do you seek Him in prayer when you don't understand something? Do you have Him teach you in dreams and in feelings and that little voice that says "this is connected to that"? I initially thought that you simply didn't understand this aspect, but it's clear from your posts that you appear to have chosen to believe the world of lies instead of letting God teach you the truth. God is truth, but you are so resistant to believing Him. You've given the propagandist reasons that all of us read every day of our lives for why you SHOULDN'T believe scripture. How about dumping all of THAT and tell Him that you are placing your trust in Him and show your commitment. It's a hard thing to do! But each day and week He teaches more and your Faith grows stronger - the more you receive....each time that you study a topic in the Bible you pray for understanding, clarification or ask how it relates to something else. Guess what? He gives you the answer by leading, dreams, inner voice, "a ha" moments, etc etc etc. This is why some at church can whip out their Bibles and know its the truth.

You are missing the most important relationship because of your mind's refusal to let go of the world. Can you understand why "reason and logic" have been indoctrinated into our generations, that it makes it nearly impossible to shrug it off in order to start your relationship with God?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Paschar0

 

You can believe it is his word as much as you want, but it's nothing more than a belief, one that right now I don't share.

The bible isn't the word of God my friend...

Jesus is the word of God...

Jesus is the "Word made flesh".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Paschar0

 

You can believe it is his word as much as you want, but it's nothing more than a belief, one that right now I don't share.

The bible isn't the word of God my friend...

Jesus is the word of God...

Jesus is the "Word made flesh".

Thats what i said... he is the word of God...

Lets not get into the Jesus is God debate... theres plentilly of places here for that issue... That is not the topic at hand... our friend here seems lost... and i am offering some direction.

Thats right i said plentilly...

reply to post by WhoKnows100


You're right in that it IS very difficult now to let go of "reason and logic", which in almost any other context would be considered moronic, but I get what you're saying.

I like to think I have an open mind and maybe opening yourself up that way has some merit. It's been a long time since I was at that stage and to be honest, the more I've studied and learned over the years, the more I've turned away from "faith" in things. I know there is something out there, I'm just not sure if I or anyone else has truly interpreted it in properly or if it's even meant to.

If I could be SURE that all the words I read are truly from an actual Jesus, I would welcome that. But how do you know those words haven't been manipulated or just invented to serve some others purpose. That kind of blind faith escapes me and would seem worse to believe in the wrong word vs no word.

reply to post by Paschar0


Dear Paschar0,

As far as belief, I do believe in "God", what I question is religion and it's tools. Sadly, as much as I WANT to believe everything about Jesus, I don't accept that you must only believe in him to be "saved". However, I love his message. I will say this, if HE HIMSELF came to me in some way and said yes all of this is true, I wouldn't hesitate, I just doubt he actually said or requires these things.

Actually I don't believe in sin, Hell or for that matter punishment anymore than I believe in being rewarded for my actions. Didn't Jesus himself say that ACTS will not get you into Heaven, but what's in your heart? By that logic, murder with the right frame of mind should be perfectly acceptable.

What surprises many people about me is that I'm very active in supporting local charities, food banks, shelters etc and I don't do it with the hopes of being rewarded by God or anyone else, I do it because I'm selfish, it makes me feel good. I've been doing it for years but just don't talk about it much.

Ask yourself this, if "God" came to you and said you are absolutely free to do whatever you like, there are no conditions or prerequisites or rules of any kind. You can go to church or not. You can be honest or not. The bible is unnecessary now, but you can still read it if you want to. You can do ANYTHING you want, the waiting is over. What would you do? For me, not much would change. I suspect for many churchgoers, things would be much much different.

I can't help but wonder if thousands of years ago this very thing was one of the reasons organized religion was invented in the first place. It's the perfect mechanism for controlling the masses for whomever is interested in doing so, whether to help people or use them, it just works. Over time, like anything else, it's become more complicated and skewed until you end up with something far different than what you started with. Fear works both ways, my biggest fear oddly isn't the wrath of God, but wasting time on rituals and things that could very well be completely meaningless and are taking me away from what I should be doing, which is BEING human.

I will try and answer some of what you mentioned. What you said about Jesus is accurate, we are not saved by works; however, if we have the heart of Jesus (loving each other as ourselves) then we will want to be of service to others and it will show in our acts. A lot of Christians get that confused and focus on the external rather than the heart and faith. They do it out of fear and that is not how we are to act. That is why it says that many will come to him and call out his name and he will say he never knew them. It is not believing in the name that saves you, it is believing in the meaning of his name. It is about meaning and not ritual. The name means "God's Salvation" or if you will the belief that loving one another is our salvation because is the price tag.

As for sin and hell. Sin is imperfection not evil per se. We are all imperfect and hopefully growing; but, never attaining perfection. This goes back to what I said about the solution to the issue of eternal boredom. Hell on the other hand is the decision to stop growing and becoming completely selfish, it is it's own hell. If all you care about is yourself, eventually it is all you are left with and that is pretty lonely.

I commend you on your contributing to charity. Non-Christian does not mean evil to me and Christian doesn't mean good to me. I just expect more of people who call themselves Christians, I expect them to live it.

I like your question and agree with your answer. Many call themselves Christians for reasons having nothing to do with what their true beliefs are and the truth is the majority of people calling themselves Christians (or any other belief set for that matter) do what they do out of social pressure. Tell them they can do what they want and they will. Actually, most people calling themselves Christians live and act just like non-believers, their so called faith just isn't there.

As for organization (call it religion or whatever), the Book of Acts talks about how that began and it is just a natural progression. As more and more people wanted to join with the apostles, there was a need to organize and create a structure to sustain the movement. Yesterday, the lead pastor that I work with was hospitalized for some heart problems, it meant that we had to rush around to organize certain people to take over certain responsibilities. We are in the middle of opening a new food bank and it requires organization, without his leadership (he has lots of experience with this) we had to make some adjustments so that we could keep the momentum. We know that organizations can lose their focus overtime and so we take certain precautions to prevent it; but, it is always a risk. Peace.

I found myself agreeing with pretty much everything you had to say and more importantly for me agreed with the spirit of it. It's encouraging.

Over the years, It's the inconsistency of hearing so many different messages and explanations for the same questions depending on who you ask that adds to my overall confusion and doubt.

Originally posted by aimlessly
This thread strikes a very strong chord with me.

I, too, am struggling with what I believe. I believe in something higher, something that connects everything, I just don't know if that something is God.

I am really stuck, because if I do believe in God, then I have to believe that he is selfish and uncaring. If it is not God that I believe in, it is easier for me to accept the world and it's atrocities over the many millenia.

I am having a very hard time reconciling the God that I was taught about growing up, the loving, just and merciful God with what I see every day on the news. How does that God allow the things that go on in this world, often in his name? I know it is often cited to be because of free will, and I guess I don't understand completely how free will trumps Gods will when he is the one that created everything. Good and Evil. To create something such as Evil, means that he is either resonsible for the effects of evil, not humans, or if he didn't create Evil then he is not the supreme being.

I am not expressing my thoughts very well and I am sorry for that.

I guess it boils down what God's intentions were when he created man. A slave to serve him, honor his name, do his bidding, which includes killing those that don't believe in him only to find out after we have died if we did good enough to gain entry to Heaven? Or were we an experiment that he lost control of?

So many questions.

I think you express your thoughts very well, indeed I have the same struggle as you.
The bible is very clear , God does allow evil and he is indeed the orchestrator of everything.
I was reading Job 9 tonight and it struck me how difficult it is for everyone to undrstand including this amazing man who suffered under Gods orders.
I, like Job accept that God is working in me for my benefit and His by faith.
The bible does not hide that God is a terrible God who causes pain and destruction. In fact to my understanding free will doesnt exist, sorta, but dont quote me as I am not to sure if I can explain it.
Its by faith we are saved, certainly not logic

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
That was one of the things I hated most about church when I was younger: If you decided not to go, they were all up in your business, wanting to know why you weren't in church and what a sin it was that you weren't there.

The pressure tactics, to me, are a sure sign that whatever they have to offer each Sunday isn't enough for people to keep them coming back. It's too bad you have to do business with them, because if they are anything like the "Christians" I grew up with, they'll blacklist you and no longer do business with you if you stop going to their Sunday meetings.

wow you must have went to Westboro?

Originally posted by Paschar0
I found myself agreeing with pretty much everything you had to say and more importantly for me agreed with the spirit of it. It's encouraging.

Over the years, It's the inconsistency of hearing so many different messages and explanations for the same questions depending on who you ask that adds to my overall confusion and doubt.

I believe the bible to be real... you are there for a reason so maybe you're just not asking the right questions? That's one great thing about that book (thanks Mr Tyndall) you are free to research this on your own, sometimes that could be better for understanding its truth.