The Case for an Intelligent Designed Universe

I think the universe is designed by an INTELLIGENT MIND. I will go even further. I think science tells us that it has to be designed by an INTELLIGENT MIND.

The heart of the matter is entropy and information. The fundamental property of the universe is information. The universe can be fully described by information. Everything except Consciousness. The only thing that can survive falling into a black hole is information. Point particles are purely informational constructs that don't take up any space.

So what does this have to do with an INTELLIGENT MIND? EVERYTHING!!

First, when I say information I'm talking about bits. Everything in the universe can be described by bits. From the formation of a star to a vacation to Paris.

These bits can never be destroyed. They can just go from a high state of entropy to a low state of entropy.

Information in a high state of entropy would be random, scrambled letters as opposed to a 300 page novel which would be in a lower state of entropy.

ONLY AN INTELLIGENT MIND CAN REDUCE THE ENTROPY OF INFORMATION TO CONVEY MEANING AND SEND A MESSAGE.

Nature can't reduce the entropy of information to convey meaning and message. Nature itself is governed by information in a low state of entropy (laws of physics).

A mind can take information like ababab and convey a message. We can say if the sequence of letters is ababab then meet me at 3rd street cafe. If the sequence of letters is bababa them meet me at 1st street cafe.

A Mind can take information in a high state of entropy and put it in a low state of entropy to convey meaning and message. This is something nature and randomness can't do. In fact, I say there isn't any randomness in nature. It's all governed by information. Rain or snow seems random but it's not. It's governed by information (laws of physics).

Why do we understand these things? It's because we're the INTELLIGENT MIND experiencing these local "realities."

reply to post by Matrix Rising

Yeah cancer is real intelligent design. Also republicans.

Intelligent is defined by what you have to compare it to.
All depends on perspective.

It's not intelligent, it's not random. It just is.
Why does everything always have to be defined into nothingness.
Waste of time.

Thanks for posting this. I find this incredibly interesting. I think that anything that exists must have been designed. Besides isn't the universe a remarkable work of engineering?

Originally posted by locster
reply to post by Matrix Rising

 

It's not intelligent, it's not random. It just is.

This is not very thought out...

reply to post by Matrix Rising


ONLY AN INTELLIGENT MIND CAN REDUCE THE ENTROPY OF INFORMATION TO CONVEY MEANING AND SEND A MESSAGE.


I'd have to disagree. This is the only thing we know that can achieve such a thing, but we don't even begin to understand how everything works, I think one that has closed their mind off to the point that things only work when they can understand them, is severly limiting there understanding and ther capability to understand how the universe really works. My problem is very simple, if it takes an intelligent mind to create the universe, doesn't it take an intelligent mind to create the intelligent mind in the first place, this is obvious, and it clearly proves that there is no creator. Unless of course you propose that this creator has been and will be around forever...

reply to post by Matrix Rising

Nature can't reduce the entropy of information to convey meaning and message.

Why not? Complex molecules, life, crystals etc. are all ordered systems that localy reduce entropy.

ONLY AN INTELLIGENT MIND CAN REDUCE THE ENTROPY OF INFORMATION TO CONVEY MEANING AND SEND A MESSAGE.

Total entropy always increases, even with an intelligent mind ordering things. Unless you want to claim that your hypothetical intelligent designer violates laws of thermodynamics including entropy.

There are many things pointing to intelligent design. The Fibonacci Series, and the golden number, Phi both point to it. The 2nd law of Thermodynamics definitely induces one to lean that way.

reply to post by boot2theface




Depends on your perspective.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
There are many things pointing to intelligent design. The Fibonacci Series, and the golden number, Phi both point to it. The 2nd law of Thermodynamics definitely induces one to lean that way.

These are things that point to the illusion that there is a designer. There is no designer. Lets just say the universe was designed. Then we all live in a universe which was created in some kind of space, or area, which we can call the verse. Within this verse, is the creator who created the universe. Now when im talking about the creation of life and the universe, I am talking about the beginning of everything. People may be confused and think well there was this creator, and he created the universe blah blah blah, but then it also holds true that this creator lies wihtin this verse, which by your logic would have had to been created by some kind of creator as well. It goes on and on and on. It's not logical. Things aren't just there forever. My point is that at some point, there is no creator, and somehow it has to come into existence. This would logically lead me to believe, that even if there was a creator, the way he came into existence was not through intelligent design, at some point down the line, which means, going back to the beginning, we weren't either.

Originally posted by locster
reply to post by boot2theface

 

Depends on your perspective.

I just don't understand how something can be neither designed or random. It seems there is broken logic at work here. I'm not trying to argue. I'm just trying to see your meaning...

reply to post by Matrix Rising


It is of intelligent design, the balance and complexity of life and physics is amazing. You only have to look out of the window to see it.

reply to post by boot2theface


The logic one uses is defined by the things he knows. By ones beliefsystem.
So depending on what your reality is,logic changes. So really logic is more a glorified opinion then anything else.

That is what i ment. Sorta


Not that i know ofcourse. No one really knows. That's the best part

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
There are many things pointing to intelligent design. The Fibonacci Series, and the golden number, Phi both point to it. The 2nd law of Thermodynamics definitely induces one to lean that way.

These are things that point to the illusion that there is a designer. There is no designer. Lets just say the universe was designed. Then we all live in a universe which was created in some kind of space, or area, which we can call the verse. Within this verse, is the creator who created the universe. Now when im talking about the creation of life and the universe, I am talking about the beginning of everything. People may be confused and think well there was this creator, and he created the universe blah blah blah, but then it also holds true that this creator lies wihtin this verse, which by your logic would have had to been created by some kind of creator as well. It goes on and on and on. It's not logical. Things aren't just there forever. My point is that at some point, there is no creator, and somehow it has to come into existence. This would logically lead me to believe, that even if there was a creator, the way he came into existence was not through intelligent design, at some point down the line, which means, going back to the beginning, we weren't either.

this is a very sound point. what if the "creator"(feels weird saying it like this, I'm a Christian) is on the outside of this theoretical verse? I guess what i'm trying to say is: what if god wouldn't need the space he created in order to exist?

reply to post by andersensrm


Your argument makes no sense and doesn't refute what we know about things like information and entropy. You're point is based on bad philosophy.

You say the Intelligent Mind had to be created. This is a rendition of the argument posed by athiest, who created god?

It's a silly argument because nobody who talks about God or in this case the Intelligent Mind said God was Created. In order to accept and debate this silly premise, we would have to accept an athiest definition of a created god. I always thought this was one of the silliest questions for this reason.

Scientifically, why does this Intelligent Mind need to be created? For Information to ever go from a high state of entropy to a low state of entropy an Intelligent Mind must be eternal because information and energy can't be created nor destroyed.

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
reply to post by andersensrm

 

Your argument makes no sense and doesn't refute what we know about things like information and entropy. You're point is based on bad philosophy.

You say the Intelligent Mind had to be created. This is a rendition of the argument posed by athiest, who created god?

It's a silly argument because nobody who talks about God or in this case the Intelligent Mind said God was Created. In order to accept and debate this silly premise, we would have to accept an athiest definition of a created god. I always thought this was one of the silliest questions for this reason.

Scientifically, why does this Intelligent Mind need to be created? For Information to ever go from a high state of entropy to a low state of entropy an Intelligent Mind must be eternal because information and energy can't be created nor destroyed.

edit on 20-1-2012 by Matrix Rising because: (no reason given)

Okay, but energy hasn't been around forever? So it had to be created, or put into existence at some point. Unless, you believe that it has just been around, and will be around forever. Which is your right to believe in that, but I don't. That to me doesn't make sense, nothing can be around forever. Although science and information, just about everything we learn about it tells us it is. But I think that we still don't have the necessary information to make an assumption, that its just been around forever. In a timely sense, this intelligent mind may have existed before time, in which, now that time exists, this mind has been around for all of time. But before time existed, there was this intelligent mind, and it wasn't just there. This is a very complicated subject, as to we are talking about the orgins of life, and the existence of anything, if there was even existence, before time and this universe that we are in. I don't in any way wish to attack you for thinking in a certain way. But for ME, I can't just accept that this creator has just been around forever, because thats the only way we can make sense of it. What if in reality space is really flat, but we percieve everything as spherical because of the way space is bent back unto itself. Now we could do all the tests we want, and all we would be able to determine is that the universe is spherical, and not flat, but this does not mean that it isn't flat. This is where we make our biggest mistake in life. We think we have it all figured out, until we learn of a new perspective that gives us insight that we don't.

Do I think that "who created god?" is a silly question? Of course not, it is a valid one, but by no means do I ask it to attack you. I ask it because, it presents a problem to the creation theory. How can one create something, if the one doing it is a creation of that he will create. Meaning you can't create life, if your alive, meaning that life has already been created. I personally believe that everything works in cycles. Cycles are everywhere, mainly evolution, which can be seen in multiple different levels not just physical. I think that consicousness is what we refer to the creator, however it is not to be confused with "intelligent". Then it goes on to what created concsciousness, which I don't have an answer. I think that consciousness evolved from something, and over time concsciousness evolved parts of itself into matter, creating the universe we see today. Dark matter, the stuff holding galaxies together, I presume is some kind of conscousness lying in or through a couple of dimensions that we have no way of seeing or analyzing. This is the way I look at the universe. My main problem with basically all religions, is that in almost all of them there is some type of creator, or god. And this god, is supposed to look after us, or help us, or whatever. We are taught through religions to pray for gods help, to look to god for the answers. This is where the problem is. We look outside of ourselves for the help and the answers we need. But the answers to all of our problems lie within ourselves. Within our concscousness. We need to look inside ourselves not outside. We are all connected through our concsiouness, and we have more influence than we know of. There are stories of people getting stuck in the middle of nowhere, where they don't have a chance of anyone just randomly walking by and helpling them. They talk about miracles of how they prayed to god, and someone came. What I think is really happening, is we are projecting our cries for help through our concsiouness and other people can pick up on this sub-concsiouly, leading them to make choices and actions that will eventually lead them to saving the person, without them even really knowing it.

reply to post by andersensrm


God could not have been created. God is all. Pure and indescribable.

Originally posted by boot2theface

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
There are many things pointing to intelligent design. The Fibonacci Series, and the golden number, Phi both point to it. The 2nd law of Thermodynamics definitely induces one to lean that way.

These are things that point to the illusion that there is a designer. There is no designer. Lets just say the universe was designed. Then we all live in a universe which was created in some kind of space, or area, which we can call the verse. Within this verse, is the creator who created the universe. Now when im talking about the creation of life and the universe, I am talking about the beginning of everything. People may be confused and think well there was this creator, and he created the universe blah blah blah, but then it also holds true that this creator lies wihtin this verse, which by your logic would have had to been created by some kind of creator as well. It goes on and on and on. It's not logical. Things aren't just there forever. My point is that at some point, there is no creator, and somehow it has to come into existence. This would logically lead me to believe, that even if there was a creator, the way he came into existence was not through intelligent design, at some point down the line, which means, going back to the beginning, we weren't either.

this is a very sound point. what if the "creator"(feels weird saying it like this, I'm a Christian) is on the outside of this theoretical verse? I guess what i'm trying to say is: what if god wouldn't need the space he created in order to exist?

edit on 20-1-2012 by boot2theface because: Grammar

I dont know thats a good point. But at the same time, you could theoretically say "well god can do anything" then it wouldn't matter what kind of proof or information I had, you could always revert back to saying, well god created that too. So its really about you. Do YOU really think theres a being of some kind up there, we all know as god, who created this universe for who knows what reason, to send us here for 70 years, split seconds in universe time, to experience this. While all the while hes taking inputs from billions of people around the world, sorting through and determining who does what, and what happens to who, not to mention if he created the entire universe, he'd have to do this for all living sentient creatures, which would be a lot. Unless of course god created the entire universe, just to have life inhabit, earth, and to have the life on that planet last no longer than a couple hundred years. I just can't figure out the point of it all. Why would god do this at all just for kicks? So then we are all here just for kicks? Just because? That doesn't work for me. And its a little too complicated. I see it in a more simple way, which if you follow Occam's razor, you know what i mean.

reply to post by andersensrm


The nature of the universe is far more complex than the tool of logic with which we use to try and understand the universe. You in my mind are barking up the wrong tree with your thinking..

reply to post by boot2theface


So god, and energy, and time, and existence have just been around forever? Its just always been there and always will be. I will never be able to accept that this is true, until god himself comes down and tells me. And even then I'd be skeptical that it is just some kind of highly advanced E.T.

reply to post by andersensrm


That's why Christianity teaches faith, because it ultimately comes down to what an individual wants to believe.
There are some things we aren't supposed to know, and we as a species needs to understand this badly.