Clinton assisted Russian kh-31 Krypton ASM program

Originally posted by longjohn
I'll give you a challenge:
I say the items you give are b*ll#.
List two other (reliable = internationally known) news sources which also mention this and I will offer my excuses on the list.

Aha, say what you want there are more than enough sources to prove you wrong. Hell you couldn't even get the right missile and instead started talking about completely different models
You my friend are full of it, admit that and save some face. Quite frankly people like you still think the earth is flat as well, we know it isn't though, don't we

• However, the MA-31 was only an interim solution, because the drone lacked the range and flight path accuracy to fully satisfy the Navy's SSST (Supersonic Sea-Skimming Target) requirement for the simulation of a high-speed anti-ship missile. During the MA-31 evaluation, Boeing had demonstrated an improved variant (sometimes called MA-31PG; PG = "Precision Guidance") with a GPS-based navigation system and the resulting option for a precise flight path after a high-altitude (and therefore longer range) launch, but in the end this variant was not selected for production as the ultimate SSST. Instead, that contract went to Orbital Sciences in June 2000, leading to the GQM-163 Coyote SSST. As soon as the GQM-163 becomes available (latest plans say 2005), the remaining MA-31 targets will be retired. However, in June 2004 Boeing received an order to deliver 14 additional MA-31s until the end of 2006, and so it appears that the target will remain longer in U.S. Navy service than originally intended.
  www.designation-systems.net...
  
  
• Later in the decade, as an interim solution, the Navy acquired a handful of Russian-built "Kh-31A" ramjet-powered anti-ship missiles, modified to "MA-31" targets by Boeing, as an interim solution. This was ironic, since the Kh-31A was one of the threats the MA-31 was being designed to simulate. The Russians were making money on the deal coming and going.
  
  There was apparently some consideration to putting the MA-31 into full production, but that didn't happen
  www.vectorsite.net...
  

Now here's the kicker for the really dense, here's one from Boeing's oficial website - then again they could be lying as well

• ST. LOUIS, Dec. 17, 1999 -- The U.S. Navy has awarded an $18.8 million contract to The Boeing Company for procurement of 34 MA-31 target vehicles.
  
  Concern about anti-ship missiles prompted the U.S. Navy to ask U.S. industry for a system to simulate anti-ship missiles to test its defenses. To maximize realism and minimize development and production costs, the Boeing Phantom Works proposed the MA-31 Target System in a concept exploration and definition study and subsequently in a highly successful foreign comparative test.
  
  "We wanted to provide the most realistic target possible at the lowest possible cost," said John Reilly, MA-31 program manager. "And that's just what we've done."
  
  www.boeing.com...
  
  Oh and guess what the below image is from Boeing's website.
  
  

Like I said, you could have saved some face without talking BS, I don't enjoy making people look stupid, well maybe sometimes



[edit on 2-1-2006 by mad scientist]

Originally posted by rogue1
I would have at least expected the US to use the technology they've been paying for to build their own ramjet anti-ship cruise missile.

The only ramjet powered missile the U.S Navy has is it's new target missile, the Coyote. Though I don't see why they don't convert it into an actually weapon.

Coyote

Yes I'm sure Clinton was sitting down thinking "now how can I destroy America", like all liberals do... and I'm sure he planned this all out by himself without any help from the DoD or Boeing...

Could it be that the military itself wanted to get it's hands on this system, so they could train against the types of threats they might face in the future, and Clinton simply approved it? Nahh...

I am hardly a great fan of Clinton, but the spin in this article from Newmax (otherwise known as WND Lite) is so thick you could cut it with a knife...

Seems your own link suggests this was a project brought about by the US Navy:

Concern about anti-ship missiles prompted the U.S. Navy to ask U.S. industry for a system to simulate anti-ship missiles to test its defenses.

So I suppose the US Navy is led by traitors out to sabotage, errr, the US Navy?

[edit on 1/3/06 by xmotex]

^^^ Duh, you've completely missed the point. The missile in it's original form was dangerous and unrelaible, the US solved many of these problems for the Russians. Which subsequently have been incorporated into actual Russian made warshots which have been sold to several countries including China. Didn't you read the thread properly

I got that, and you're still missing the point, it was the US military, not Bill Clinton, that asked for the missile, and got it working correctly.

Or are you under the impression that Clinton had a side job as a rocket scientist?

Originally posted by xmotex
I got that, and you're still missing the point, it was the US military, not Bill Clinton, that asked for the missile, and got it working correctly.

Or are you under the impression that Clinton had a side job as a rocket scientist?

In 1995, the U.S. Navy acquired the Kh-31 from Russia as part of an arms deal cut behind closed doors by Vice President Gore and Russian Prime Minister Chernomyrdin. On first blush this sounds like a great idea. We provide cash to the bankrupt Russian defense industry and in return we acquire advanced weapons.

However, Gore was suckered by Moscow. The Krypton deal did not include the real guts of the missile, its electronic seeker. According to one Russian defense source, the Kryptons supplied to America were little more than "hollow target shells." In 1995, the U.S. Navy also determined that the Russian Krypton missiles did not include the all-important radar "seeker" and guidance electronics from the weapon version.

"Removal of the seeker will preclude use of the MA-31 (Krypton) for testing the effectiveness of soft-kill EW (electronic warfare) systems and decoys," states a 1995 Navy report. At this point, U.S. engineers provided direct assistance to Russian weapons engineers in order to make the Krypton work. The OK came from the highest levels in the Clinton administration and included U.S.-funded trips to American test sites by Russian missile engineers.

newsmax.com...

Did you actually read the article ? Doesn't seem so

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Jesus, first he sells nuclear secrets for reelection money, and now this.

He should be tried as a traitor and executed.

hmm..i wonder what else our CURRENT president is doing to "ante" up this

I would prefer if you keep the discussion clean of personal insults, its childish and makes for bad reading for all.

You know what I find interesting?
That even in most of your news items, it never states that Boeing, or anyone else, gave any technology back to Russia.

In other words: Boeing bought the missiles, modified them on their own, and then used them.
So I fail to see how this affected the efficiency of the Russian missiles...

Comments?


On a sidenote, do you really think that Newsmax is a reliable source?

when clinton was in office,north korea started liking the us,we were doing joint programs with the russians and china,but once bush got in..everybody pretty much hate the us..and when clinton was in office thats why we got alot of guns here for cheap.

Originally posted by longjohn
I would prefer if you keep the discussion clean of personal insults, its childish and makes for bad reading for all.

Ahem pal. You're the one calling what I posted BS - don't be surprised if you get some flack back
As a matter of fact you even claimed the photo of the RQ-4 launching a Kh-31 BS Whose the childish one here. You didn't even bother to check the facts before you mouthed off.



[edit on 6-1-2006 by mad scientist]

Kh-31 variant MA-31 was declared the winner of the competition, in which four Kh-31 missiles were test-fired at the Point Mugu Naval Air Station in California. The Russian missile's victory led to some criticism of the deal on the grounds that the US government was subsidizing the Russian defense industry. Additional complications were caused by the US desire to extend the range of the missile, which required additional development work .[9] In spite of these complications, the first batch of four missiles that was used up in the testing was followed by a second batch of nine, and Boeing wanted to sign a third, longer-term contract to procure MA-31s in October 1998. Under that contract Boeing would purchase 20-50 missiles a year for five years. Final conversion work, which included installing telemetry and other specialized apparatus, would be done at the Boeing facility in St. Louis.

www.nti.org...

The missile range was modified in Russia with US help.

Originally posted by mad scientist
Ahem pal. You're the one calling what I posted BS - don't be surprised if you get some flack back

As a matter of fact you even claimed the photo of the RQ-4 launching a Kh-31 BS

Whose the childish one here. You didn't even bother to check the facts before you mouthed off.
[edit on 6-1-2006 by mad scientist]

Very well then,
I might stand corrected on that one.


But how about my question? Any reasonable answers for that?

In my opinion:

Clinton bought missiles from Russia (gaining the tech)
The US modified it and used it as test missiles (US navy defenses improved)
Russian didn't get anything but a lump payment of cash, no tech no assistance... Nothing! (big deal)

Seems to me that Clinton made quite a deal here.

Hmmm, how was that saying again....?

The one who laughs last....

LOL, any you've asked has already been answered in my previous posts. As you can see no one has any problem with it
He who laughs last, laughs the longest and I have been laughing for a long time

Oh screw it, I'm staying out of this one.

[edit on 1/24/2006 by Zaphod58]