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Clinton assisted Russian kh-31 Krypton ASM program

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posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 03:54 AM
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The Clinton administration was well known for its refusal to spend money on new weapons. President Clinton reduced the number of aircraft carriers, cut Army divisions, retired whole Air Force squadrons and did not field one major weapon system during the entire 1990s.

However, there is one missile success story that can be directly attributed to the tireless efforts of Bill Clinton and Al Gore. This fantastic missile would not be in active service today if it were not for the personal efforts of Bill and Al.

Unfortunately, the missile is made in Russia.

The Russian air force has announced that it will soon field the improved Kh-31 rocket-ramjet missile. The Kh-31PM, known to NATO as the AS-17A Krypton, is designed to attack U.S.-made radars used by Patriot air defense sites and Aegis warships.

The titanium Kh-31 was built in 1988 by the Russian Zvezda-Strela State Science and Production Center for the former Soviet Union. The PM version of the Krypton missile offers extended range and features improved passive seeker electronics, enabling it to pick up a wide range of radar targets.

The PM also incorporates into its design virtually all of the improvements suggested by a team of U.S. military engineers who worked on the Krypton during the Clinton years.


newsmax.com...

US Navy test fires a krypton ( target drone version )


This is ridiculous, to test the US NAvy's ASM defence they help the Russians improve their missiles by a huge margin and now the Russians are selling the damn things to the Chinese. This is outrageous the US now funds it's enemies weapon systems

It the same thing when Clinton allowed Hughes to improve the reliability of Chinese rockets because Hughes were using them to launch satellites and they kept on blowing up. Now this directly improved Chinese ICBM capability.
Only under a Clinton administration would this not be seen as treason.



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 12:01 PM
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Jesus, first he sells nuclear secrets for reelection money, and now this.

He should be tried as a traitor and executed.



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 08:06 PM
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mad scientist
The Clinton administration was well known for its refusal to spend money on new weapons. President Clinton reduced the number of aircraft carriers, cut Army divisions, retired whole Air Force squadrons and did not field one major weapon system during the entire 1990s.

That action was required to reduce a bloated and ineffiecient military, the results of which contributed greatly to the reduction in the National Debt. Something we poor folks have to worry about paying because the Rich Republicans never have to worry about paying it back.



mad scientistHowever, there is one missile success story that can be directly attributed to the tireless efforts of Bill Clinton and Al Gore. This fantastic missile would not be in active service today if it were not for the personal efforts of Bill and Al.
You forgot the efforts of McDonnel Douglas and the US Navy, does that make the McDonnel Douglas Corporation and the US Navy a complicent group of Traitors too?

newsmax
Russian, U.S. Navy and McDonnell Douglas engineers conducted a series of "P3I" or "pre-planned product improvements" to the Russian weapon, extending its range from 15 to 42 miles, and allowing pilots to safely fire the weapon without killing themselves.

American Mad Man
... should be tried as a traitor and executed.




mad scientistUnfortunately, the missile is made in Russia.
The Russian air force has announced that it will soon field the improved Kh-31 rocket-ramjet missile. The Kh-31PM, known to NATO as the AS-17A Krypton, is designed to attack U.S.-made radars used by Patriot air defense sites and Aegis warships. The titanium Kh-31 was built in 1988
Then it was originally designed and built during the Reagan/Bush years.


mad scientist

The PM also incorporates into its design virtually all of the improvements suggested by a team of U.S. military engineers who worked on the Krypton during the Clinton years.

American Mad Man
... should be tried as a traitor and executed.



Furthermore, do you think you could STOP linking to a site that attempts to place virus 'loaded' software (Gain Publishing) onto peoples computers? It is really very bad form.



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 10:52 PM
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Clinton was the president, he could have vetoed any involvement but he didn't, don't try and blame other people.
Clinton didn't make the military more efficient, he made far less capable - FACT.
As for virus loaded software, I've ot no idea what you're talking about


The fact reamins that the Clinton administration spent US dollars on a highly capable Russian missile system which is now being sold to China. Come on DENY IGNORANCE Chucky. Saving a few bucks is far removed from funding an enemies weapons system.



posted on Sep, 11 2004 @ 06:07 AM
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there was no need and is no need for the US military to be so large in today's environment. Clinton was just trying to put the balance sheet in check
. Now today with those great republicans you like spending our (the rest of the world) money on your weapons because you can't afford it
.

The latest tank or aircraft isn't going to stop terrorism.

Oh well I spose you guys will protect me if we're threatened.



[edit on 11-9-2004 by drfunk]



posted on Sep, 11 2004 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by drfunk
there was no need and is no need for the US military to be so large in today's environment. Clinton was just trying to put the balance sheet in check
. Now today with those great republicans you like spending our (the rest of the world) money on your weapons because you can't afford it
.

The latest tank or aircraft isn't going to stop terrorism.

Oh well I spose you guys will protect me if we're threatened.

[edit on 11-9-2004 by drfunk]


No need have you been following events since 911
, the army is overextended fighting what would be considered a small scale regional war. There aren't enough professional soldiers. That was clintons biggest mistake reducing boots on the ground.



posted on Sep, 11 2004 @ 09:12 AM
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mad scientist,

you are thinking in conventional warfare terms this is a mistake many americans make. You can't fight 'terrorism' with armies, it is not a military movement it is an idea. They see themselves as freedom fighters protecting their god and people. The more you fight with weapons, invade other countries and violate the civilians there the more popular the movement becomes in these nations which supports their cause, therefore you see more terrorists.

How can you fight terrorism with an abrams?? how can you stop a person armed not with weapons but with ideas entering the US and working from there? you can't do it with an F-22 Raptor, a MOAB or a USS Enterprise. it's an impossible task. The rich are getting richer by dealing with terrorism the wrong way.

You just can't fight it with an army. What needs to be focused on is understanding between eachother and working out peaceful and viable solutions. The US treats the people of the middle-east well and doesn't insult/violate/exploit or act morally and socially superior to them and there is no problem.

These people conceive the US as a great threat and it's because of the way the US govt and US corporations have handled the middle east for the past 50 years.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Sep, 11 2004 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by drfunk
mad scientist,

you are thinking in conventional warfare terms this is a mistake many americans make. You can't fight 'terrorism' with armies, it is not a military movement it is an idea. They see themselves as freedom fighters protecting their god and people. The more you fight with weapons, invade other countries and violate the civilians there the more popular the movement becomes in these nations which supports their cause, therefore you see more terrorists.

How can you fight terrorism with an abrams?? how can you stop a person armed not with weapons but with ideas entering the US and working from there? you can't do it with an F-22 Raptor, a MOAB or a USS Enterprise. it's an impossible task. The rich are getting richer by dealing with terrorism the wrong way.

You just can't fight it with an army. What needs to be focused on is understanding between eachother and working out peaceful and viable solutions. The US treats the people of the middle-east well and doesn't insult/violate/exploit or act morally and socially superior to them and there is no problem.

These people conceive the US as a great threat and it's because of the way the US govt and US corporations have handled the middle east for the past 50 years.

thanks,
drfunk


I understand your point, however I was just referring to how over extended the US Army is. It seems there are a hell of alot of Army reservists over in Iraq, people which should be looking after their grocery store.
I was trying to make the point that the bulk of the US Army is committed to Iraq, what happens with all the other areas they are responsible for if something happens.

PS. I'm just as Australian as I am American, I hold duel citizenship, but have been lkiving in Australia for the past 15 years although I do travel to the US 2-3 times a year for business.



posted on Sep, 11 2004 @ 07:37 PM
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I can agree with you that the US army is overextended currently due to the lack of manpower and the use of reservists. That is why Iraq is such a waste because there were no terrorists there in the first place.

At least the Iraqi people havent got saddam anymore, i spose thats at least something but at what cost?

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 02:21 AM
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Truth
Whatever technologies occured, including the nuclear, and space, came from the Russians. Nothing matches them. US cannot help Russia to devellop any missile.
The Russian missile that do the job of 4 km in 9 seconds.. these American most hitech missiles do this job in 15 seconds.
Clinton might have helped, but not sharing of the technology. Or this news might be spread by the opposition parties.
The first rumour person says "It might be possible".
The second rumour person says "They said it was like that".
The third rumour person says "I got a big news, there is happening like this".
The fourth rumour person is found few times, says "I have seen it, it is like that".
good wishes.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by plasmamorph
Truth
Whatever technologies occured, including the nuclear, and space, came from the Russians. Nothing matches them. US cannot help Russia to devellop any missile.
The Russian missile that do the job of 4 km in 9 seconds.. these American most hitech missiles do this job in 15 seconds.
Clinton might have helped, but not sharing of the technology. Or this news might be spread by the opposition parties.


No the US, perfected the missile for them, the Russians couldn't get it to work.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Jesus, first he sells nuclear secrets for reelection money, and now this.

He should be tried as a traitor and executed.


Yeah, it's almost as bad as using the influence of a relative to steal an election that one never did win, isn't it.

Well, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's not that bad.

Maybe it's as bad as making an entire indigenous people suffer for the actions of their leaders. (Afghanistan/Taliban)

Maybe it's as bad as being inhuman....No, wait, probably not.

Are you stuck in the cold war? It's not US versus the Commies anymore, folks.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by Loki

Maybe it's as bad as making an entire indigenous people suffer for the actions of their leaders. (Afghanistan/Taliban)

Do you bother thinking about what you post ? It really doesn't seem so, otherwise you would realize how stupid your comment is. A quick google is all you need to discover exactly what was happening in Afghanistan to the people before we went in.

As for the Krypton, the point is Clinton used US money to develop a Russian weapons system which has now been sold to the Chinese. So if there is a future conflict where these weapons are used to kill Americans would you still be as sarcastic. Please grow up



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 04:39 AM
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I'm not so sure you fully understand.

Killing any civilians in a country in which none have expressed outward hostility towards America is a problem.

Yes, I've heard it all. Collateral damage. I call it Bull-Honkey.

I'm as humanitarian as it gets. I don't care if a person just cursed you out in seven different languages for half an hour. Violence is NOT the answer.

Just as a full-fledged invasion with minimal reconstructive efforts (Keep in mind, I'm talking Afghanistan here) in response to a terror attack that may or may not have been perpetrated by the leaders of a country is NOT the answer.

To put it lightly:

Why don't you reconsider what you've posted, and try to watch yourself? You've already got one warning there. I don't think that going around and insulting members is the way to avoid the ban in your situation.


Bottom line is this: Afghan people are suffering. The US destroyed their government's infrastructure, as primitive as it is, and replaced it with one which is even more ineffective, because they're too worried about making sure that the US is happy with them.

And now, it's happening in Iraq.

And remember, flaming isn't fun.



posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 05:52 AM
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Whatever, I'm not going to bother answering this. Please stay on subject and stop ranting.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 03:12 AM
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I would have at least expected the US to use the technology they've been paying for to build their own ramjet anti-ship cruise missile.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 04:39 AM
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I know this is off topic but it was brought up earlier. The US Army being overstretched, not true. The US has a total of about what, 140,000 troops in Iraq, all of which are not army, but Marines, Airforce, and Navy as well.
The Statement that we are overstretched just isnt true.

US Military Personnel
-these numbers do not include reserves, of which the US has around 800,000.

Remember how the US military is set up to fight on two MAJOR fronts of battle, in two seperate theatres if necessary.

On topic now, I dont know much about this other than what Ive read here. Ill do some digging.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by ludaChris
I know this is off topic but it was brought up earlier. The US Army being overstretched, not true. The US has a total of about what, 140,000 troops in Iraq, all of which are not army, but Marines, Airforce, and Navy as well.
The Statement that we are overstretched just isnt true.

US Military Personnel
-these numbers do not include reserves, of which the US has around 800,000.


The USA has close to 1,000,000 men in uniform.
But only about 150,000 of those are army combat troops.

The rest is either Airforce, Navy or support, airdefense, heavy artilery and similar units, not much of a use against insurgents.

There's 150,000 combat troops, and there is 170,000 troops in Iraq. Lets make a guess what the National guards are doing there...


Some troops of the 82nd are already on their FOURTH tour in either Iraq or Afganistan.

Don't tell me that the army isn't stretched.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by mad scientist
The Clinton administration was well known for its refusal to spend money on new weapons. President Clinton reduced the number of aircraft carriers, cut Army divisions, retired whole Air Force squadrons and did not field one major weapon system during the entire 1990s.

However, there is one missile success story that can be directly attributed to the tireless efforts of Bill Clinton and Al Gore. This fantastic missile would not be in active service today if it were not for the personal efforts of Bill and Al.

Unfortunately, the missile is made in Russia.

The Russian air force has announced that it will soon field the improved Kh-31 rocket-ramjet missile. The Kh-31PM, known to NATO as the AS-17A Krypton, is designed to attack U.S.-made radars used by Patriot air defense sites and Aegis warships.

The titanium Kh-31 was built in 1988 by the Russian Zvezda-Strela State Science and Production Center for the former Soviet Union. The PM version of the Krypton missile offers extended range and features improved passive seeker electronics, enabling it to pick up a wide range of radar targets.

The PM also incorporates into its design virtually all of the improvements suggested by a team of U.S. military engineers who worked on the Krypton during the Clinton years.


newsmax.com...



Excuse me for saying, but this article is complete nonsense.
Newsmax is NOT a reliable source!!!

Being a part of NATO in the years mentioned I know that all the Clinton administration did was buy a few old age "Moskit" missiles to be used as target drones for the newly missile defense systems.
The picture shown is a fake, an F-4 CAN NOT launch a moskit, its far to big.

Never, ever, did the USA get its hands on a working version of the newer (Yakhont) missile and never, ever did US technicians cooperate with either Chinese or Russian technicians to improve the missile.
(They may have discussed the functioning of the missile in "non official" discussions however.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by longjohn
Excuse me for saying, but this article is complete nonsense.
Newsmax is NOT a reliable source!!!

Being a part of NATO in the years mentioned I know that all the Clinton administration did was buy a few old age "Moskit" missiles to be used as target drones for the newly missile defense systems.
The picture shown is a fake, an F-4 CAN NOT launch a moskit, its far to big.


If you'd read the article it doesn't say it was a Moskit
It's an AS-17 Krypton. Here are some specifications as you are so learned.

  • Total length : 5.22m
  • Diameter : 0.32m
  • Weight : 600kg


As you can see an F-4 could easily carry several of those missiles.
www.globalsecurity.org...



Never, ever, did the USA get its hands on a working version of the newer (Yakhont) missile and never, ever did US technicians cooperate with either Chinese or Russian technicians to improve the missile.


Never said they did, once again the article is referring to the AS-17 Krypton


Here's another source, scanned documents from teh Navy.




THE REST OF THE SCANNED DOCUMNENTS


WorldNetDaily has covered the U.S. Navy Ma-31 program, a target version of the Zvezda Kh-31A, NATO code-named AS-17 Krypton, supersonic missile. The sales of the Ma-31 to the U.S. Boeing Company are part of an ongoing deal between Boeing and Zvezda-Strela State Scientific-Industrial Center to deliver 2000 Ma-31 missiles over a 10-year period.

The Zvezda Ma-31 is not related to the SS-N-22 Sunburn, which is made by the Raduga Machine Design Bureau in Russia. According to official U.S. Navy sources, the 1,100-pound Ma-31 does not replicate the massive 9,920-pound Sunburn. According to official U.S. Navy statements, the Ma-31 missile can fly "only 16 miles on the deck" and cannot duplicate the Sunburn's performance of over 50 miles at low level.

www.worldnetdaily.com...



China and Russia are scheduled to sign a major arms deal worth billions to the ailing Russian defense industry, including the joint missile production agreement. Russia currently sells a target drone version of the same Zvezda missile to the United States Navy, called the MA-31...

...A photograph first published by WorldNetDaily on Jan. 4, 2000 shows a U.S. Navy F-4 firing a target drone MA-31 missile during recent tests. The Zvezda MA-31 missile tested by the U.S. Navy is officially reported to have a 16-mile range. The missile being sold to China is reported to have a range of 125 miles -- over seven times farther than the missiles sold to America.
Navy officials confirmed for WorldNetDaily that they are working with American defense contractor Boeing McDonnell Douglas to extend the range of the Zvezda MA-31 target missiles.

www.worldnetdaily.com...




[edit on 2-1-2006 by mad scientist]



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