another run in with law enforcement.

Originally posted by Liquesence
I just hate how cops' attitudes seem to have come to the "everyone is a suspect" "everyone is a potential threat/enemy" mentality that is so un-American that it makes it hard to NOT think one is living in a police state, especially when one of the most powerful legal perceptions is the "lawful order." Practically anything can be a lawful order, even the most absurd, simple because a cop gives it--and the legal system largely backs this.

A lawful order only applies to the military Section 91 or 92 of the UCMJ ) or to someone in that policeman's direct chain of command.
Unless they want to admit to you that we are under martial law (We have been since the end of the civil war why do you think the police adopt military rank? )

You can't be a doormat if you don't lie down first.
Don't call them Sir, Don't call them officer don't speak to them as though they are better than you.
I'm at the age where I can get away with smiling and calling them 'Young man" or worse yet "What a nice young man." They hate that but they can't do anything about it.

Originally posted by Liquesence
I have heard of people going to a police station to file a complaint, and when asked to identify themselves, and they refuse, they are arrested for failure to identify. I understand that one must (usually) use one's identity to file a formal complaint, but to be arrested for failure to identify oneself or produce id at a police station is, regardless of the (supporting) law on identification (in some places), just insane.

I think that was a youtube video. Would find the link but my work computer doesn't have sound.

Originally posted by VforVendettea

Originally posted by Liquesence
I just hate how cops' attitudes seem to have come to the "everyone is a suspect" "everyone is a potential threat/enemy" mentality that is so un-American that it makes it hard to NOT think one is living in a police state, especially when one of the most powerful legal perceptions is the "lawful order." Practically anything can be a lawful order, even the most absurd, simple because a cop gives it--and the legal system largely backs this.

A lawful order only applies to the military Section 91 or 92 of the UCMJ ) or to someone in that policeman's direct chain of command.
Unless they want to admit to you that we are under martial law (We have been since the end of the civil war why do you think the police adopt military rank? )

You can't be a doormat if you don't lie down first.
Don't call them Sir, Don't call them officer don't speak to them as though they are better than you.
I'm at the age where I can get away with smiling and calling them 'Young man" or worse yet "What a nice young man." They hate that but they can't do anything about it.

I think you are quite mistaken about lawful orders, unless i misunderstand what you're saying. Police frequently arrest people for failing to obey a "lawful order" or maybe it's actually a "lawful command," and it is the citizens who are "under" that command. Basically, if a cop tells you to do something (usually within reason but oftentimes not) and you refuse, it is failure to follow/obey a lawful command. The cops will generally find a legal reason for using the failure to obey, such as "interfering" (even if you're not close), obstructing, impeding something, etc. Of course it's a type of martial law.

I never say "sir" to them or call them officers. I might say "yes" or "no," and i might be polite, but i never add "sir" because it shows willful subordination.

Originally posted by VforVendettea

Originally posted by Liquesence
I have heard of people going to a police station to file a complaint, and when asked to identify themselves, and they refuse, they are arrested for failure to identify. I understand that one must (usually) use one's identity to file a formal complaint, but to be arrested for failure to identify oneself or produce id at a police station is, regardless of the (supporting) law on identification (in some places), just insane.

I think that was a youtube video. Would find the link but my work computer doesn't have sound.

The incident i was talking about happened in the days before Youtube (in my state). Of course, i have no doubt that it also has happened and continues to happen since.