Important artifact removed from the strange mask of Comalcalco

This mask was discovered at the ancient Maya site of Comalcalco. The missing object was either fragile, valuable or controversial in nature.



Fragile?
This area should have been the place where the nose and upper lip reside. It almost looks as if the upper lip is supposed cover the nose area. Strange indeed. What is strange is that other areas of the mask are perfectly intact. Why would this area be prone to break easy? Unless it was dropped on its face. I doubt it.

Valuable?
The area in question is circular. It may have contained a large gem or medallion with special inscriptions. It may have been the place for a small version of the Mayan calendar. If it possessed any real value it would have been looted at first site. This is a possibility.

Controversial?
The missing object could have been another artifact that connected the Old World to the New with ancient oceanic trade. The first archaeologist who discovered the mask had it removed so the established thought could be protected. This could have been an object that proved a Roman presence at the site. Also another possibility.


This mask is very important because it matches the character at the center of the Aztec Sun Stone.



What do ATS members think?

Before for you decide look at this zoomed in photo of the damaged area.
I see marks of a prying tool. Do you?




Pre-Columbian trade with Comalcalco?

Not in the know of this subject in depth but a cursory glance leads me to believe that the face in the middle of the Aztec Sun Stone does not match the upper pic.

Not that it has anything to do with the claim but just something I noticed.

Interesting tho...

Thanks

reply to post by jude11

I was looking at the Sun Stone one too to see if that had the detail that this one was missing. It looks to have been "messed with" in the nose are to my eyes.

In reply to the OP, how large would the object be? My first thought is of a crystal skull or maybe just a crystal like the famous Indiana Jones movie (which was supposedly based at least partly on "facts"?

Commonly used materials were copper, gold and silver, shells, clay, wood, rock such as obsidian, and feathers. Various precious stones were used, such as jade, quartz (such as amethyst), opal, moonstone, and turquoise.

Taken from: Aztec Sacred Materials used in art.

My guess is a gold bill or nose, or turquoise.

Edit: Gold is the best guess, because it is malleable, and the Aztecs did not cement items into cavities, they usually used gold because it can be pounded in to a crevice and anchor itself.


Edit: The Aztec cities when raided by the Spanish, were stripped clean of all gold, where ever it was found. This would be a great candidate for a raided object.

I am no expert by all means, but I have travelled to most of the sites around mexico (aztec/mayan ruins) and there is one common god that is shown around most of the monuments, with a long nose sticking out. It is their god of rain Chaac.




might be worth exploring, or Im completely off! all I know is 90% maybe more of the chaac sculptures had their nose busted off.

Originally posted by jude11
Not in the know of this subject in depth but a cursory glance leads me to believe that the face in the middle of the Aztec Sun Stone does not match the upper pic.

edit on 2-12-2011 by jude11 because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the comment.

The rise of the Aztecs occurred between 1327 and 1427 AD. The decline of the Comalcalco civilization happened around 800 AD. It’s only natural the face would change somewhat over time. Just look at the evolution of the Medusa head.

History of the Aztecs

What we really need to see is an Olmec sun stone.

Originally posted by el1jah
I am no expert by all means, but I have travelled to most of the sites around mexico (aztec/mayan ruins) and there is one common god that is shown around most of the monuments, with a long nose sticking out. It is their god of rain Chaac.




might be worth exploring, or Im completely off! all I know is 90% maybe more of the chaac sculptures had their nose busted off.

Thanks for that observation.

I looked more into the Mayan sun god and this is what I found.

Kinich Ahau (K'inich Ajaw) is the 16th-century Yucatec name of the Maya sun god, designated as god G in the Schellhas-Zimmermann-Taube classification. In the Classic period, god G is depicted as a middle-aged man with an aquiline nose, large square eyes, cross-eyed, and a filed incisor in the upper row of teeth.

en.wikipedia.org...

I wasn't sure what a aquiline nose was supposed to look like and this is what a google search came up with.

An Aquiline nose (also called Roman nose, hook nose or beak nose) is a human nose with a prominent bridge, giving it the appearance of being curved or slightly bent. The word aquiline comes from the Latin word aquilinus ("eagle-like"), a reference to the curved beak of an eagle.

en.wikipedia.org...

Both the rain and sun god of the Maya had hook noses. How interesting. The mention of a Roman nose with these deities makes this even more interesting. Not to mention god G, which makes me think of a Masonic connection.

reply to post by lostinspace


Not an expert, but my guess is that this represents a human/bird hybrid such as the Mayan deity Itzamna, the god of creation or the Laughing Falcon. In human form Itzamna had a hooked nose and in bird form a beak, so the missing part would have been a nose or a beak.



Itzamna




Mayan Principal Bird Deity

reply to post by Chronon


Nice pictures. The cheeks seem to be a good match in both images. If the nose was really as large as the censer version then I could imagine it falling off due to the excessive weight. If it wasn't made of some valuable material there must be a loose nose lying around somewhere at the site.

I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about Comalcalco. Sure, it's an interesting site but people need to stop making some kind of conspiracy out of it. Admire it for what it is; a unique Mayan city. In fact a similar sentiment could be expressed about the Mayan civilization as a whole. They were an extremely interesting culture worthy of research without all of these false claims being made about them.

Certain fads occur in the fringe and alternative worlds (all the mainstream world too), sites, words, concepts and ways of dealing with things get a great deal of attention and some fade away while others take on a life of their own. This one appears to be undergoing a temporary surge that will probably fade away once the evidence is shown to be insufficient to push it any farther.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Certain fads occur in the fringe and alternative worlds (all the mainstream world too), sites, words, concepts and ways of dealing with things get a great deal of attention and some fade away while others take on a life of their own. This one appears to be undergoing a temporary surge that will probably fade away once the evidence is shown to be insufficient to push it any farther.

evidence deemed insufficient, is usually just evidence that has been hidden so as to not disrupt the masses perception of history...

there is no lack of evidence in Comalcalco most of it has just been kept secret alot of these finds have been sitting in private collection for over 30yrs.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


This is ATS and I have every right to post what's on my mind. I never mentioned 2012 and I'm sorry you hate the mention of Comalcalco with any conspiracy. The museum would be proud they have all this attention now. Maybe they'll get more tourists at their site because of these discussions. They probably could use a boost in their economy.

Originally posted by Chronon
reply to post by lostinspace

 

Not an expert, but my guess is that this represents a human/bird hybrid such as the Mayan deity Itzamna, the god of creation or the Laughing Falcon. In human form Itzamna had a hooked nose and in bird form a beak, so the missing part would have been a nose or a beak.

Let’s say his nose was real pointed just like a humming bird. That kind of protrusion could have been easily broken. If he was to be a fast flying human-humming bird he would need protective eyewear. This mask appears to have this feature.

Originally posted by -W1LL

evidence deemed insufficient, is usually just evidence that has been hidden so as to not disrupt the masses perception of history...

Or more commonly the evidence is lacking....yes, yes the world would collapse in complete chaos if a Roman vessel had drifted to the Americas and the crew which survived showed the locals how to make bricks........lol, strange the world didn't collapse when we found the Viking had visited the Americas - why was their no disurption of the masses then?

there is no lack of evidence in Comalcalco most of it has just been kept secret alot of these finds have been sitting in private collection for over 30yrs.

If its secret why do we seem to be talking about it on this board?

reply to post by -W1LL


Comalcalco has been a secret for years? That's funny because I could've sworn that there had been articles written on the bricks for many years now. Not to mention that this crazy theory about Roman influence has also been around for years now. Just because the media is now trying to cash in on these stories thanks to Mexico's desire to increase tourism doesn't mean any of this information has been hidden. You just haven't been looking in the right places.

After reading over everyone’s comments I did a search on the internet for golden bird beaks or cones and this is what came up.

Mysterious gold cones ‘hats of ancient wizards’


This cone hat is believed to have come from Southern Germany.
Late Bronze Age, 1000 B.C.E, Length 74.5 cm (29.33”), weighs 490 g.

It was probably one of these gold cones from Europe. It would have made a perfect hummingbird beak for their god Itzamna. These gold cones of Europe had astrological symbols on them to help oracles predict the movement of the heavenly bodies.

en.wikipedia.org...

Historians at the Berlin Museum for Pre- and Early History, however, claim to have established with near certainty that the mysterious cones were originally worn as ceremonial hats by Bronze Age oracles. Such figures, referred to as “king-priests”, were held to have supernatural powers because of their ability to predict accurately the correct time for sowing, planting and harvesting crops.

www.angelfire.com...

This next comment blew my mind when I read it. This would explain why this guy was at the center of the Aztec Sun Stone.

Mr Menghin and his researchers discovered that the 1,739 sun and half-moon symbols decorating the Berlin cone’s surface make up a scientific code which corresponds almost exactly to the “Metonic cycle” discovered by the Greek astronomer Meton in 432 B.C.E. - about 500 years after the cone was made. - which explains the relationship between moon and sun years. “The symbols on the hat are a logarithmic table which enables the movements of the sun and the moon to be calculated in advance,” Mr Menghin said. ‘They suggest that Bronze Age man would have been able to make long-term, empirical astrological observations,” he added.

www.angelfire.com...


So all three things I mentioned in the Opening Post were true.
It was fragile - Easy to grab and break off
It was valuable - Made of gold
It was controversial - Had patterns that should not be associated with Mesoamerica

Here are the images next to each other.

Originally posted by el1jah
I am no expert by all means, but I have travelled to most of the sites around mexico (aztec/mayan ruins) and there is one common god that is shown around most of the monuments, with a long nose sticking out. It is their god of rain Chaac.

You beat me to it. That's exactly who it is -- not the sun god, but the rain god, Chaac.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by el1jah
I am no expert by all means, but I have travelled to most of the sites around mexico (aztec/mayan ruins) and there is one common god that is shown around most of the monuments, with a long nose sticking out. It is their god of rain Chaac.

You beat me to it. That's exactly who it is -- not the sun god, but the rain god, Chaac.

Can you please provide pictures showing Chaac with his tongue sticking out in this fashion. I looked at the wikipedia article on Chaac and it showed a statue with similar cheek bones but his tongue was not sticking out.

Do you know the meaning behind the outstretched tongue?

Originally posted by lostinspace


Do you know the meaning behind the outstretched tongue?

Obvious, Sympathy for the Devil.