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Is human will stronger than the will of God (Christianity)?

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posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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These verses are saying that NOTHING can stop God's will:


“I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted." - Job 42:2

"All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: 'What have you done?' " - Dan 4:35

This verse says that it is God's WILL to save ALL people:

"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." - 1 Timothy 2:3-4

But this verse says, not all will get into heaven...


"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”" - Rev. 21:8



So, Nothing can stop God's will and it is God's will to save all people and yet people will still go into the lake of fire (hell). So that means that in the end God's will IS stopped because his will was for all to go to hell and some did not.

You can say that humans have free will, but that is saying that human will is stronger than God's will, and God is supposed to be all powerful.

Since God didn't carry out his will, then he is not all powerful, what do you think?



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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The answer is no. Our will is not stronger than God's will. However, God purposely gave us freewill and with that we are free to defy him. Just understand that there will be consequences for your choices.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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blasphemy!

blasphemy!!!!



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by DOADOA
blasphemy!

blasphemy!!!!
It is not blasphemy to question God. Sincere questions arising from doubt are the first steps on the road to faith.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
The answer is no. Our will is not stronger than God's will. However, God purposely gave us freewill and with that we are free to defy him. Just understand that there will be consequences for your choices.


The Bible says that God's will is that EVERYONE goes to heaven and the Bible also says that NOTHING AT ALL can go against the will of God.

But The Bible also says that some will not get to heaven, so that mean that God's will is STOPPED by HUMANS.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:15 AM
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Here's an interesting thought:

Is the biblical god's will always done? Or are there times when his will isn't accomplished?

If his will is always done, why pray? If his will is not always done, then is it up to us to make his will be done, and not up to him?

For example, a family member is on their death bed and the family is praying for him to be healed. In this scenario, it is NOT god's will for him to be healed. So, even though the family is praying earnestly for this family member to be healed, will god heal him, even though it's not his will?

Next example, a family member is on their death bed and it IS god's will for him to be healed, yet the family does not pray because they don't believe in gods. So, will this god heal this person since it is his will for him to be healed, or will he let the person die because no one is praying for him?

In either case, if god always does his will......why pray? If he doesn't always do his will, then it must be up to us for his will to be carried out, and if that is so......why?



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
It is not blasphemy to question God. Sincere questions arising from doubt are the first steps on the road to faith.
That's interesting. My questioning led me to atheism.
edit on 30-11-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 

It is God's desire that all go to Heaven. However, God will not force you to worship him. How can you force honest love and worship? God does not desire false worship, he does not desire forced love. He gave us freewill that we could choose to love him or not. If you choose not, there are consequences to be faced from your choice. Everybody seems stuck on the thought that God is Love. While "true", he is one time Love, BUT he is HOLY HOLY HOLY. Your sin condemns you. He does not. God offered a way to be cleansed from sin. It is your choice to accept it or to reject it. By rejecting it, you choose sin over God. Sin cannot exist close to God, thus people filled with sin cannot be near God. Our souls, our spirits are immortal. We will continue to exist after "death". We will spend that time in one of two places. You choose which, using your freewill.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
It is not blasphemy to question God. Sincere questions arising from doubt are the first steps on the road to faith.
That's interesting. My questioning led me to atheism.
edit on 30-11-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)
We all have freewill to choose as we will. Just be prepared to accept the consequences if you are wrong.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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This verse says that it is God's WILL to save ALL people:

"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." - 1 Timothy 2:3-4


This verse doesn't say God's "WILL" is to save all people.
This is just your interpretation. It says he "wants". Meaning he wan'ts us to choose to be saved "Free-Will".
You have it all backwards.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
It is not blasphemy to question God. Sincere questions arising from doubt are the first steps on the road to faith.
That's interesting. My questioning led me to atheism.
edit on 30-11-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)


Loosing faith because the lack of understanding is immature. IMO



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
We all have freewill to choose as we will. Just be prepared to accept the consequences if you are wrong.

I am prepared. Besides, why should I let an innocent human being take my punishment for me? That's disgusting, imo. We should get what we deserve. This god thinks I should be tortured forever in fire because I'm not perfect like him, so that's what I should get.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by GmoS719
Loosing faith because the lack of understanding is immature. IMO

Possibly. But having faith in something that you can't prove to be true is stupidity, imo. If having faith in something means it's true, then every religion and belief system on the planet would be valid.

So, being raised in a christian household, then giving my life to Jesus, and living for him for over 20 years, things changed. I wanted to wipe the slate clean and have a reason to believe the way I do, not just believe it because that's how I was raised. If I were born in Saudi Arabia, more than likely I would be arguing for Allah right now.
edit on 30-11-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
We all have freewill to choose as we will. Just be prepared to accept the consequences if you are wrong.

I am prepared. Besides, why should I let an innocent human being take my punishment for me? That's disgusting, imo. We should get what we deserve. This god thinks I should be tortured forever in fire because I'm not perfect like him, so that's what I should get.


We aren't damned to hell because we fail to be perfect. No where in the Bible does God ask you to be perfect.
That's impossible.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by GmoS719


This verse says that it is God's WILL to save ALL people:

"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." - 1 Timothy 2:3-4


This verse doesn't say God's "WILL" is to save all people.
This is just your interpretation. It says he "wants". Meaning he wan'ts us to choose to be saved "Free-Will".
You have it all backwards.


You're kidding me, right? You do know that Will is another word for Intention/Desire...


I can't believe people are saying "free-will". That has NOTHING to do with this:


* God's WILL is for ALL people to go to heaven ( 1 Timothy 2:3-4)

* God's WILL MUST happen, NOTHING AT ALL can stop it (Job 42:2, Dan 4:35)

* But NOT ALL people will go to heaven (Rev. 21:8).

This means that God's WILL is NOT fulfilled, and thus he is NOT all powerful.

Are you following the simple logic?



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


I'd question everything else I could before questioning GOD, even the direction of English...



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by GmoS719
Loosing faith because the lack of understanding is immature. IMO

Possibly. But having faith in something that you can't prove to be true is stupidity, imo. If having faith in something means it's true, then every religion and belief system on the planet would be valid.


All religions are valid, to whom it concerns.
I have no need or want to prove my reason of faith. All I care about is that it is true to me.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by GmoS719
 


Actually it does, the whole point of Jesus dying is to pay our debt so we won't go to hell because no one is perfect and everyone has sin.

So anyone imperfect desires hell unless they get Jesus according to the bible.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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* God's WILL is for ALL people to go to heaven ( 1 Timothy 2:3-4)
* God's WILL MUST happen, NOTHING AT ALL can stop it (Job 42:2, Dan 4:35)
* But NOT ALL people will go to heaven (Rev. 21:8).


Like I said, this is your interpretation. ^^^ These words are not directly from the bible.
They come from you. Which means nothing.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 

Daniel-
And all the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and [among] the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Job-
2 I know that thou canst do every [thing], and [that] no thought can be withholden from thee.

If we are going to reference these verses as evidence for the argument then they should be listed in their entirety and in context. On further examination, I do not think these verses are speaking of God's will.



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