to the Israelites in the book : Twice Shall You Do Corruption In The Land

1.Ahmadinejad is just making people think about what has been done in the Palestine , and that is why he has made much enemies for himself.

I don't back all the things he has done . But I know the whole problem started when he asked about Holocaust.

First , he denied it , but then , he corrected himself and asked : Supposed that Jew people were killed in the WW2 , it doesn't legitimate to give land of some other people to those oppressed people. And at last . Israel accepts no border.

2. The fact that there are Jews world wide who are not going to live in the Israel , approves that those people are not all the Jews. There are Jews who think different than those people invaded Israel.

For instance : 25,000 Jews live in Iran

3. According to the Quran ,

وَ قَضَیْنا إِلى بَنِی إِسْرائِیلَ فِی الْکِتابِ لَتُفْسِدُنَّ فِی الأَرْضِ مَرَّتَیْنِ وَ لَتَعْلُنَّ عُلُوّاً کَبِیراً (4)
AND WE MADE KNOWN TO THE ISRAELITES IN THE BOOK. THAT TWICE SHALL YOU DO CORRUPTION IN THE LAND AND YOU WILL TRANSGRESS A GREAT TRANSGRESSION.
فَإِذا جاءَ وَعْدُ أُولاهُما بَعَثْنا عَلَیْکُمْ عِباداً لَنا أُولِی بَأْس شَدِید فَجاسُوا خِلالَ الدِّیارِ وَ کانَ وَعْداً مَفْعُولاً (5)
THEN WHEN THERE CAME TO PASS ONE OF THE TWO PROMISES, WE RAISED AGAINST YOU SERVANTS OF US (WHO WERE) VIGOROUS WARRIORS, AND THEY SEARCHED THE HOUSES, AND IT WAS A DEFINITE PROMISE.
ثُمَّ رَدَدْنا لَکُمُ الْکَرَّةَ عَلَیْهِمْ وَ أَمْدَدْناکُمْ بِأَمْوال وَ بَنِینَ وَ جَعَلْناکُمْ أَکْثَرَ نَفِیراً (6)
THEN WE PASSED TO YOU THEN TURN 9TO PREVAIL) OVER THEM. 9THE HICH TIDE BECAME YOURS) AND WE AIDED YOU WITH PROPERTIES AND CHILDREN, AND WE MADE YOU A MORE NUMEROUS PEOPLE.
إِنْ أَحْسَنْتُمْ أَحْسَنْتُمْ لا َِنْفُسِکُمْ وَ إِنْ أَسَأْتُمْ فَلَها فَإِذا جاءَ وَعْدُ الآخِرَةِ لِیَسُوؤُا وُجُوهَکُمْ وَ لِیَدْخُلُوا الْمَسْجِدَ کَما دَخَلُوهُ أَوَّلَ مَرَّة وَ لِیُتَبِّرُوا ما عَلَوْا تَتْبِیراً (7)
IF YOU DID WELL, YOU DID WELL FOR YOURSELF, AND IF YOU HAVE DONE EVIL, (IT TOO) WAS FOR YOURSELF. THEN WHEN THE NEXT PROMISE CAME TO PASS, SO AS TO SADDEN YOUR FACES (AGAIN) AND THEY TO ENTER THE HOLY TEMPLE AS THEY ENTERED IT (VIOLENTLY) AT THE FIRST TIME; AND TO DESTROY WHAT WOULD FALL IN THEIR POWER WITH UTTER DESTRUCTION!

17 - (4:7)

This is what we are told in Quran.

ETA : it is clear that they are called ISRAELITES , not Jews. That is why we call them Zionists.

Following the prophet's night Journey to the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, the argument once again turns to the Israelites bad behaviors, and miserable fate.

God gave them the TOWRAT, as a book of guidance through their prophet Moses, and said to them not to rely on any other power other than that of their Lord, with whom they had made a covenant; but they ignored God's favor, and broke their promises and became thankless and disobedient! As a matter of fact, they were the offspring of those who were carried in the ARK, with NOAH(A.S). therefore they had every reason to be thankful and godly, if they would only think but they, followed their own passions and caprices, and plunged to ingratitude, idolatry, and sin. They even forgot the sincere devotion of NOAH, and their own godly and virtuous forefathers like; ABRAHAM, JACOB, ISAAX, MOSES and AARON.

Then in the next verse (NO.4) Allah reminds them of two dreadful historical events, which were the outcomes of their own deeds, and afflicted them for their sins and disobedience.

Perhaps the two occasions referred to, are the destruction of the Holy Temple by NEBUCHADNEZZAR, the king of Babylonia; when the Jews were carried into captivity; and when, GENERAL TITUS in 70 A.D destroyed the Temple by fire at the end of his fearful and bloody war with the Jews. For more information, Please refer to translator's note on page 518 volume 3, of this book.

As to the clause of the verse NO.5; "We raised against you servants of us" usually in Quran the word Servants applies to both, believers and unbelievers. Therefore it might be that they were called here the servants of God in the sense that they were means by which Allah poured His wrath upon the Jews.

In the next verse, No.6, it is said that Allah had His Mercy on the Jews and turned the tide to their benefit by aiding them with children, wealth, and making them numerous.

This might have been their return from captivity about 520 B.C and rebuilt of the Holy Temple. It was when a truthful religious leader of them called NEHEMIAH, could attract the attention and support of Persian King, Artaxerxes; who appointed him as the governor of Jerusalem, with all the needed support and supply. There in Jerusalem; with the help of Ezra, another Jewish high priest, he revived the Jewish community, and established the Biblical Law as the constitution.

The last verse implies that God is needless of our worship and prayer, or whatever we may do good deeds: -

"If you did well it is to your own benefit, and if you did evil it is to your own loss."

If anyone does a good deed it will result to his own benefit; Similarly evil deeds will bring evil result. God will never oppress his servants the least. He who does something good will have a good reward, tenfold of that, and he who does something bad will have an equally bad reward for that, and no more than that! We read in the D 6:160: -

"He who does good, will have ten time as much to his credit. But he who does evil will not be recompensed except the like of it, and they will not be oppressed."

Our Good Gracious God, rewards a good deed of man by a multiplication of ten times which is far above merits, but to the evil the punishment is no more than the evil, while the doors of repentance and pardon too is always open!

Quran

Maybe they are just trying for their second time on earth ?

What is your idea ?

Can you help clear something up for me...

I have herd it reported that any land that was at one point held by Muslims and lost, must be reclaimed at any coast, so dictate by the Quran, is this true and if so how much does this factor into the current geopolitical ramblings of Iran?

reply to post by Max_TO


Here is your answer :

AND FIGHT IN THE WAY OF ALLAH WITH THOSE WHO FIGHT WITH YOU, AND DO NOT EXCEED THE LIMITS, BECAUSE ALLAH DOES NOT LOVE THOSE WHO EXCEED THE LIMITS.

EXPEL THEM FROM WHERE THEY EXPELLED YOU.

2 - (190:191)

reply to post by hmdphantom


Thanks for that

So based on the scope of the ottoman empire and how far reaching that was do all the independent nations that were once under there rule need worry about a future war to reclaim there land for Islam?

So what you are saying is that Iran's leader's statements, and the Quran, is not directed towards the Jewish religion as a whole, but directed at those that have occupied the land that was once under Islamic rule?

Am I reading that right?

Is "Palestinian" mentioned in the Quaran? It seems Israel is. Chicken, egg? What came first?

And, about the Holocaust....regardless of what the beady eyed Hitler wannabe thinks, it did happen.

A simple Google image search will give you all the evidence you'll need (unless you're a complete moron).

crashcromwell.hubpages.com...

The Quran is published in Arabic and in Farsi.

Are there any translation conflicts that are controversial and creating misunderstandings.

Do some words have completely different meanings in either language?

Same can be for English and Hebrew translations of the Quran.

What language was the very first Quran written in?

Does the Quran have references to "Zionism" ?

Did the Ottomans edit or add content to the Quran?

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3

And, about the Holocaust....regardless of what the beady eyed Hitler wannabe thinks, it did happen.

You are right. It did happen. But there are many legitimate questions people ask concerning the holocaust, and that does not automatically make them "beady-eyed Hitler wannabees".

A simple Google image search will give you all the evidence you'll need (unless you're a complete moron).

It depends on what you consider evidence. The link you provided shows one person's personal story of what he had heard second-hand. Also, the pictures do show that people were killed, but were they Jews? The Nazi's killed many people, not just Jews.

I don't think the debate is about whether or not it happened, but rather if the scale of the events were embellished after the fact for political gain by the so-called "Zionists".

If I remember correctly, the original number reported was that 12 million Jews were killed, but after they realized that number was larger than the actual world population of Jewish people, they revised the number to 6 million, then to 4 million and then finally settled on the 6 million as a final count. Shouldn't that be investigated?

There is an entire theory surrounding this issue in that some claim the Zionists were in cahoots with the Nazi's in order to somehow benefit from the murder of the Jews.

Now I am not saying it is true, or that I believe it, but I find it unnecessary to call people morons if they decide to believe something other than what is popularly expected. That is, in fact, part of the conspiracy and propaganda that hinders a real investigation into the facts.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
You are right. It did happen. But there are many legitimate questions people ask concerning the holocaust, and that does not automatically make them "beady-eyed Hitler wannabees".

No, I'm saying Ahmadinejad is a beady eyed Hitler wannabe. He's beady eyed, and he wants to kill Jews.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
It depends on what you consider evidence. The link you provided shows one person's personal story of what he had heard second-hand. Also, the pictures do show that people were killed, but were they Jews? The Nazi's killed many people, not just Jews.

I'll take the word of the soldiers who were there and found the camps as my evidence, along with the photos they've taken. Sadly, they're nearly all dead themselves now, and I'm sure as soon as the last one hits the grave, history will be rewritten and make Hitler out to be the savior of mankind.

Of course Hitler killed people other than Jews. That's not disputed in any way.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
I don't think the debate is about whether or not it happened, but rather if the scale of the events were embellished after the fact for political gain by the so-called "Zionists"

If I remember correctly, the original number reported was that 12 million Jews were killed, but after they realized that number was larger than the actual world population of Jewish people, they revised the number to 6 million, then to 4 million and then finally settled on the 6 million as a final count. Shouldn't that be investigated?

Of course we don't know the scale. It's hard to get accurate numbers from puffs of smoke and ashes. Hitler and his gang of merry men didn't exactly hide the fact they wanted Jews exterminated. How would it be investigated? Weigh the ashes? Dig up the mass graves? This reminds of the carbon dating debate. An object is first dated to 170 million years old, then revised to 120 million years old, and the religious wackos go, "See, it's bad data. You said 170, now 120. You were wrong by 50 million years. That proves the world is only 5000 years old." 12 million, 4 million, 6 million, 2 million, does it reeeeeeeally matter? He was a monster, and he was trying to exterminate an entire race of people.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
There is an entire theory surrounding this issue in that some claim the Zionists were in cahoots with the Nazi's in order to somehow benefit from the murder of the Jews.

Now I am not saying it is true, or that I believe it, but I find it unnecessary to call people morons if they decide to believe something other than what is popularly expected. That is, in fact, part of the conspiracy and propaganda that hinders a real investigation into the facts.

That makes about as much sense as blacks supporting the KKK and Neo-Nazis, to make the KKK and Neo-Nazis more powerful, to hang more blacks, so blacks can be victims, and get affirmative action 100 years later. I guess if you want to believe something that silly, it's a free world. You can believe the moon is made of cheese too, and that the moon landing was faked, because Wisconsin didn't want people knowing the moon is made of cheese, and wanted to keep the corporate profits for themselves. Damn cheese heads! Sounds plausible, right?

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3

If Ahmadinejad wanted to kill Jews, he should start with those that live in Iran.
Sephardic Studies
Of course, he can't do that. Nor can he hate Jews. It is actually impossible. In fact, YOU can't hate Jews even if you wanted to. Try it sometime.
Somebody mentioned "morons"....
As an edit: Perhaps I should ask how hating Jews works in PRACTICE. How is it even possible? It is not.

You really want to know what is happening to the Israelites? I can tell you that. But you should be aware of what their Torah states is an Israelite.

Consider what the prophesies of Genesis 48 and 49 say about the descendants of the offspring of Jacob/Israel. They were to become nations by the time of the last days. And Ephraim through Joseph was to be a multitude of nations. Dozens if not hundreds of nations by the last days. And according to what I will show you next is that we are very close to those last days as of now. Literally most if not all of the nations of the world and the majority of their people now are Israelite. Per Genesis 12 the God of Abraham was to bless the families of the world through him. It would appear that part of the process is genetic. Through his seed.

And now here is the problem of the Israelites and Jews of the world. Malachi 4.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

And the other part of the problem. Matthew 17.
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

In killing John the Baptist the king of Judea had triggered this curse. But the curse is on both Israel and Judah. So then the trick is running down the details of the curse as it was never specifically detailed in either testament. So here is the background information to cover. Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 29-30.

As for the curse itself I found it in the book of Hosea. It's actually the entire book of Hosea. But here specifically is the timeframe of the curse. And the curse in a nutshell. With 2nd Peter 3-8 added to understand the reference to days.

Hosea 6
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

2nd Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The curse on the Israelites and the Jews is supposed to be 2000 years long. And combining this prophesy with the fig tree prophecy of Matthew 24 and you can make a timeline of the curse. It should be over with by May of 2028 at the latest. Along with the Apocalypse.

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3

I'll take the word of the soldiers who were there and found the camps as my evidence, along with the photos they've taken.

All due respect to the soldiers, but I would need more evidence to compound their account. Their testimony is just one small piece of the entire picture.

I'm sure as soon as the last one hits the grave, history will be rewritten and make Hitler out to be the savior of mankind.

That's a little far-fetched, don't you think?

Of course we don't know the scale. It's hard to get accurate numbers from puffs of smoke and ashes. Hitler and his gang of merry men didn't exactly hide the fact they wanted Jews exterminated. How would it be investigated?

There have been a few investigations into the subject. A quick google search, as you mentioned earlier, will bring this information to you.

There have been people that questioned the actual number of people killed and the biggest hurdle that came to light was logistics. The Nazi's would have had to kill a large amount of people in a very small amount of time, if we go with the 6 million benchmark. That alone throws "plausible" on its face.

That makes about as much sense as blacks supporting the KKK and Neo-Nazis, to make the KKK and Neo-Nazis more powerful, to hang more blacks, so blacks can be victims, and get affirmative action 100 years later

It's a wild idea, but it's possible. That's all it takes for it to be questioned.

reply to post by Max_TO


Those who wanted independence ( by the majority of people living in the region ) can live for their own. Like Iran was once beaten by ottoman dominion and then they claimed independence and took the land back.

But about Palestine , some people from different pieces of the planet came and claimed independence , they were not owner of all the lands they took by force.

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3


It is clear that Moses was the prophet before Muhammad and so , his name and the group he was guiding are mentioned in the book.

All that matters is that the same Quran who warned :

AND WE MADE KNOWN TO THE ISRAELITES IN THE BOOK. THAT TWICE SHALL YOU DO CORRUPTION IN THE LAND AND YOU WILL TRANSGRESS A GREAT TRANSGRESSION.

Says that :

EXPEL THEM FROM WHERE THEY EXPELLED YOU.

So , you say , Israelite lived there first. Is that your reason ?

ETA : I don't deny Holocaust . I just say it doesn't justify to give land of the other people to those people.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
So what you are saying is that Iran's leader's statements, and the Quran, is not directed towards the Jewish religion as a whole, but directed at those that have occupied the land that was once under Islamic rule?

Am I reading that right?

edit on 29-11-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)

Yes . But , maybe some people bought some land before the occupation of Palestine , so they own their own lands . Not anymore lands.

Originally posted by xuenchen
The Quran is published in Arabic and in Farsi.

Are there any translation conflicts that are controversial and creating misunderstandings.

Do some words have completely different meanings in either language?

Same can be for English and Hebrew translations of the Quran.

What language was the very first Quran written in?

Does the Quran have references to "Zionism" ?

Did the Ottomans edit or add content to the Quran?

So , you know about translation and the defects better than me.

Are there any translation conflicts that are controversial and creating misunderstandings.

In Iran , we do the translation based on Hadith (what we have been told about the real meanings) We don't like to add our own ideas to interpretation and translations. We believe real interpreters of Quran are our Imams. We just try to gather the Hadith and come to a conclusion. Yet we don't believe we have done translations and interpretations perfectly.

There are more sources of Quran and translation all over the internet , so you can check the meanings for yourself :

Holy Quran

Holy Quran

Holy Quran

On some particular verses , there are some different ideas and this is because Quran has spoken a mysterious language. But those verse are a few.

Do some words have completely different meanings in either language?

No , not completely different. There is a fact that only ignorant denies and that is Arabic is a language which can transfer some states that Persian can not. This is why we say Arabic is more complete and comprehensive that Persian.

What language was the very first Quran written in?

There are many things about Quran which are not said. It was descended as Arabic since our prophet was Arab and surrounded by Arabs. And it was Arabic since it is a comprehensive in words. But at that period of time , there were very few people who could write and read Arabic. And Arabic was more spoken than written. And that is why there are different ideas in different sects of Islam about translating the Quran. There was no grammar and book of words then. Most of the people were memorizing Quran rather than writing it. In fact Quran brought much civilization to those Arabs and then other Muslims.

I think I answered you Q.

Does the Quran have references to "Zionism" ?

No , but it has used Jews and Israelite in different occasions. Jews are mentioned few times , while the Israelite has been told about much in different Surats.

For example on the Al-Baqarah ( the second surat of Quran , meaning , the cow ) they have been talked to very much. We have also another Surat called ( Isra , or Bani-Israel or Israelite) which I brought the first Ayats from.

In Al-baqarah :

O, CHILDREN OF ISRAEL! CALL TO MIND THE FAVOUR I HAVE BESTOWED UPON YOU, AND BE FAITHFUL TO YOUR COVENANT WITH ME; I WILL BE TRUE TO MINE, AND HAVE AWE OF ME. (BY PERFORMING YOUR DUTIES, AND OBSERVING THE COVENANT)
وَ آمِنُوا بِما أَنْزَلْتُ مُصَدِّقاً لِما مَعَکُمْ وَ لاتَکُونُوا أَوَّلَ کافِر بِهِ وَ لاتَشْتَرُوا بِآیاتی ثَمَناً قَلیلاً وَ إِیّایَ فَاتَّقُونِ (41)
AND HAVE FAITH IN WHAT I HAVE SENT DOWN (THE QURÄN) CONFIRMING THAT WHICH IS WITH YOU, AND BE NOT THE FIRST TO DENY IT, AND SELL NOT MY SIGNS FOR A LITTLE PRICE, (CONCEALING THE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF QURÄN AND MOHAMMAD WHICH IS FOUND IN YOUR SCRIPTURES, FOR A LITTLE INCOME!) AND FEAR YOU ME.
وَ لاتَلْبِسُوا الْحَقَّ بِالْباطِلِ وَ تَکْتُمُوا الْحَقَّ وَ أَنْتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ (42)
AND COVER NOT TRUTH WITH FALSEHOOD, NOR CONCEAL THE TRUTH WHILE YOU KNOW IT.

2 - (41:42)

Did the Ottomans edit or add content to the Quran?

There has been several attempts to add and wipe some thing from Quran . But people in Middle East are very loving and holding Quran and has not let this happen.

The ones who are disappointed from changing the Quran , are just claiming this while He the almighty says in his book :

IT IS WE WHO HAVE SENT DOWN THE REMINDER (QURÄN) AND WE ARE ITS PROTECTOR.

15-9

reply to post by hmdphantom


Good explanations...

Thanx.

appreciate your time.

Originally posted by xuenchen
The Quran is published in Arabic and in Farsi.

Are there any translation conflicts that are controversial and creating misunderstandings.

Do some words have completely different meanings in either language?

Same can be for English and Hebrew translations of the Quran.

Only a Qur'an in Arabic is valid as a Qur'an. All the others are translations, not "the Qur'an". My own copy is in English and Arabic, one language on one page, the equivalent text in the other language on the facing page. That is so that if there are any conflicts of interpretation, you can go straight to the Arabic to resolve them.

What language was the very first Quran written in?

Classical Arabic, Quraish dialect. The oldest extant fragments are in Kufic script, and were found in Yemen.

Does the Quran have references to "Zionism" ?

No. It refers ti "Israelites" and "Jews", but not "Zionists".

Did the Ottomans edit or add content to the Quran?

No.

Caliph Uthman picked one "official" version out of all the existing versions in his time, had it "published", and destroyed all competing versions he could find. The net result was that there was only one version tor refer to, and that version has been handed down to the present day. All the rest were destroyed, although there may be some fragments of them to be found here and there.

Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sha'm and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to Uthman, 'O Chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before'. So Uthman sent a message to Hafsa, saying, 'Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you'. Hafsa sent It to Uthman. Uthman then ordered Zaid ibn Thabit, Abdullah bin az-Zubair, Sa'id bin al-As, and Abdur-Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, 'In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of the Quraish as the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue'. They did so, and when they had written many copies, Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.

From the hadith "Sahih al-Bukhari", Vol. 6, p.479.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
1.Ahmadinejad is just making people think about what has been done in the Palestine , and that is why he has made much enemies for himself.

I don't back all the things he has done . But I know the whole problem started when he asked about Holocaust.

First , he denied it , but then , he corrected himself and asked : Supposed that Jew people were killed in the WW2 , it doesn't legitimate to give land of some other people to those oppressed people. And at last . Israel accepts no border.

2. The fact that there are Jews world wide who are not going to live in the Israel , approves that those people are not all the Jews. There are Jews who think different than those people invaded Israel.

For instance : 25,000 Jews live in Iran

3. According to the Quran ,

وَ قَضَیْنا إِلى بَنِی إِسْرائِیلَ فِی الْکِتابِ لَتُفْسِدُنَّ فِی الأَرْضِ مَرَّتَیْنِ وَ لَتَعْلُنَّ عُلُوّاً کَبِیراً (4)
AND WE MADE KNOWN TO THE ISRAELITES IN THE BOOK. THAT TWICE SHALL YOU DO CORRUPTION IN THE LAND AND YOU WILL TRANSGRESS A GREAT TRANSGRESSION.
فَإِذا جاءَ وَعْدُ أُولاهُما بَعَثْنا عَلَیْکُمْ عِباداً لَنا أُولِی بَأْس شَدِید فَجاسُوا خِلالَ الدِّیارِ وَ کانَ وَعْداً مَفْعُولاً (5)
THEN WHEN THERE CAME TO PASS ONE OF THE TWO PROMISES, WE RAISED AGAINST YOU SERVANTS OF US (WHO WERE) VIGOROUS WARRIORS, AND THEY SEARCHED THE HOUSES, AND IT WAS A DEFINITE PROMISE.
ثُمَّ رَدَدْنا لَکُمُ الْکَرَّةَ عَلَیْهِمْ وَ أَمْدَدْناکُمْ بِأَمْوال وَ بَنِینَ وَ جَعَلْناکُمْ أَکْثَرَ نَفِیراً (6)
THEN WE PASSED TO YOU THEN TURN 9TO PREVAIL) OVER THEM. 9THE HICH TIDE BECAME YOURS) AND WE AIDED YOU WITH PROPERTIES AND CHILDREN, AND WE MADE YOU A MORE NUMEROUS PEOPLE.
إِنْ أَحْسَنْتُمْ أَحْسَنْتُمْ لا َِنْفُسِکُمْ وَ إِنْ أَسَأْتُمْ فَلَها فَإِذا جاءَ وَعْدُ الآخِرَةِ لِیَسُوؤُا وُجُوهَکُمْ وَ لِیَدْخُلُوا الْمَسْجِدَ کَما دَخَلُوهُ أَوَّلَ مَرَّة وَ لِیُتَبِّرُوا ما عَلَوْا تَتْبِیراً (7)
IF YOU DID WELL, YOU DID WELL FOR YOURSELF, AND IF YOU HAVE DONE EVIL, (IT TOO) WAS FOR YOURSELF. THEN WHEN THE NEXT PROMISE CAME TO PASS, SO AS TO SADDEN YOUR FACES (AGAIN) AND THEY TO ENTER THE HOLY TEMPLE AS THEY ENTERED IT (VIOLENTLY) AT THE FIRST TIME; AND TO DESTROY WHAT WOULD FALL IN THEIR POWER WITH UTTER DESTRUCTION!

17 - (4:7)

This is what we are told in Quran.

ETA : it is clear that they are called ISRAELITES , not Jews. That is why we call them Zionists.

edit on 29/11/11 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/29/2011 by Mirthful Me because: All Caps Title.

The jews who don't live in Israel do so because they can't afford it. Not everyone can afford to just pick up and move to the otherside of the world, it takes alot of money and not everyone has it. Despite the stories that jews have gold falling out of their arses, it's not true.

You quote the Quran but who is saying the words?

The truth of the matter is, that land is governed not by palestinian hamas but by zionist jews. What does it matter if it is governed by one faction of extremist or the other? Extremism is bad for everyone. It doesn't matter if you call that land with its imaginary borders palestine or israel, the truth of the matter is palestinians are just "care takers" who took care of the land after the Romans all but exterminated the jews and other peoples moved into the area. It is a good thing to give land to a peoples needing a place to call home, a home of their own. Allah (Arab word for God) begrudges land to no one, for all land is his land and we are all just squatters. Allah loves a generous and non seflish person or peoples. There is more than enough land there for all people to call home, wether you are arab, jew, american, african or chinese. It is his will for all men to be united and to find a place to worship him (granted in my faith this place is in your heart and not a physical locale..

The moral of the story is to share and share alike. There is no reason for people to kill eachother, especially over land that never truly belonged to anyone in the first place. There is absolutely no reason and no excuse for men to not be able to live in peace and share what they have. This is why it is a good thing for christians to live in the area to influence people to do this and to teach people to have a giving heart and be not selfish or angry or violent.