It's time to Relocate Palestinians to Jordan: Two-thirds of Jordanians are already Palestinian

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


I think you'll find there are two faces to each knesset member. In regards to the bigger plan of chopping up the Middle East in to smaller weaker nations....you think the Israeli Govt is in denial of whats really going on?

The Arabs have never known democracy and it's not in their culture or religion to have such a system of Govt. The younger generations are screaming for it but they are not going to get it anytime soon. To the older generations they see what democracy did to USA, it brought with it terrible exploitation of women and children, homosexuality, promiscuity, porn, gambling, broken down families and children not knowing who their real fathers are; and a very sick society. All these things don't conform with Islam whether they be liberal, moderate or orthodox Muslims.

As it is in the eyes of Arabs, Caucasian women whether they be English, Irish, Australian, American or European.....they are .......well, you can figure it out.

Islam already had their golden years a very long time ago, they will never taste it again so long as Islam is their national religion.

Now in regards to their culture, the problem many Arabs have today are they're having an identity crisis. At best, Islam and true Arabian culture clash. If you are not aware, the culture of the Middle Eastern Jews and the Arabs are remarkably indentical. Throw in religion of the two and thats what keeps them apart keeping them in a state of conflict since the birth of Islam. Before the birth of Islam, both Jews and Arabs lived side by side without much fuss and with only afew minor confrontations. By saying that, most are unaware of the most brutal wars between the tribes of Israel almost wiping out one of the tribes to just a small handful of survivors.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


I sincerely apologise, it was wrong on my part to talk in that way.
I respect your opinion, but whenever I find a thread that mentions Jordan and how the system should be overthrown, I get kinda pissed off; cause most of the time the person saying it is depending on the fact that Jordan is a Middle Eastern country, so by common sense, it's definitely got human rights violations, dictators ruling the region, etc.

And to be honest, forget all about who's right and wrong in terms of Palestine/Jordan/Israel.
But in an ideal world, based on ethics, principle and common sense, a country like Israel would be dismantled; their shadowy nuclear program, constant harassing of neighbouring Arab countries, numerous unaccounted for war crimes, illegal settlements on Palestinian land, the list goes on and on.

I'm not saying the other side of the argument isn't flawed, of course I agree Israel has the right (as a country, not considering how it was illegally set up and stolen from it's people) to take ultra-defensive stands.
But you gotta really think about it, the crazy few Arabs back in the 90s who said all Israel wanted to do, is eat up more and more land. All they pretty much want is all the land around them, to expand and become a superstate.

Then your mind kinda goes back to the 5 dancing Israelis (who apparently wanted to point out that the US and Israel has a common enemy) on 9/11, and the subsequent invasions of pretty much every country around Israel.
I'm not saying there's a master ploy, or some retards in a basement thousands of years ago planned all this together to enslave humanity, I'm just saying it looks a bit suspicious, and it is unfair against humanity.

And again, sincere apologies to anyone I've been a bit uncivilized to, I'm new here and I don't want to make any enemies. I'll work on portraying myself better next time

Originally posted by iamconcerned
reply to post by ghash

 

Hey Ghash, if you get past his distate for Kings, and quite frankly most places around the globe have this distaste at this point, he was on your team. You need to smoke some of that fine lebanese blonde and take it down a notch

Hahaha will do my friend.

reply to post by ghash


Firstly, explain to me exactly where the European Jews were meant to go during and immediately after WW2 when Jewish refugee boats were denied in to the shores of our Western nations? Many of those boats that were turned away sunk with enormous casualties!

Secondly, upon the state of Israel being re-established....what of the Middle Eastern Separdic & Mizrachi Jews who were either thrown out of their Arab homelands or forced out with only the clothes on their backs like their Ashkenazi brethen of Europe?

Based in an ideal world (what is an ideal world?), based on ethics (whose ethics, yours or mine?), principles (again, yours or mine?), and common sense (do you have any?). Who are you to judge?

Palestinian land? Did the Arabs living on the land only just identify themselves as Palestinians AFTER the Six Day War? The Arabs refused to be identified as such until the Palestinian Jews took on a new identity as Israeli Jews!

There is no love lost in war, sure the IDF have done alot of questionable things and perhaps some have committed war crimes.....but none took to wearing bomb belts in to pizza parlours, cafes, night clubs or on buses and blew themselves up. No Israeli Jew ever wandered in to the dead of night (or day time) slicing the throats of Arabs or dismembering them or their children dumping their remains in garbage bins.

5 dancing Israelis on 9/11......yep......they were spotted in a dozen different places at the exact same time. They have magical powers, right? As for their "invasions" in just about every country.....and Americans don't travel?

You seem abit uncivilized? But I thought you said earlier you have ethics, principles and common sense? You let the cat out of the bag on that one!

reply to post by bluemirage5


I never said I have any kind of hatred towards Jewish people. Palestine as it was called back then, was pretty much one of the only places were Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together peacefully.
Until Zionists decided to take over Palestine, the only place were Jewish people were actually welcome, and set up their own country.

You're pretty much right, to the international community, these people were not "Palestinians".
But can you blame them? Does that justify the razing of hundreds of farmlands, killing thousands of people, kicking out millions of Palestinians?

And I'm sorry I'm not entirely familiar with the Jews kicked out of their Arab homeland, can you tell me more about it? I'm not here to solve a never-ending war. I'm just here to discuss it.
And yes, I've said as well that the Muslims that blow themselves up in wherever it might be, is simply ridiculous.
But can you blame them? When their own land has been stolen, the robbers haven't been accounted for, the international community has kept it's silence, and they are called terrorists for trying to get back to their own homes?

To me to be honest, I share a view that since Jerusalem is a holy place for all Christians, Jews and Muslims; we should simply learn how to live with each other. Create a Palestinian state, and make Jerusalem a non-inhabitable place (at least around it's religious places); and people can only go there for prayer and whatelse.

So what the IDF has done a few crimes? So what millions of Palestinians were kicked out? So what they have no proper rights and no proper home.

www.youtube.com...

'We teach life, Sir.'
I have class to go to, so if you'd like to educate me about the Jewish people kicked out of their Arab homeland, that excuse my ignorance, I'm not properly acquainted with, then please go ahead.
I'll read it when I'm back.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
My reality includes moral values so I'm not going to support something that is clearly wrong.

Moral values = subjective, and many times flawed, argument.
Just give Israeli Jews North Dakota. I doubt the USA would miss it.
The Jews would be safe (for a while) from the muslims who want them all dead.

Of course, once the Muslims got the Jews to leave and got Jewish land ... they'd be a
confused bunch. No one in the neighborhood for them to hate anymore ....
Islam needs hate of an 'enemy' (real or imagined) in order to exist ....

reply to post by FlyersFan


And when the Jews start to florish in North Dakoda you'd want to rein in on their parade and demand it back once you see it thriving like no other American state! Just like the Yankies did to the richly Confederate states. Keep it, we would'nt want to turn all Americans anti-semitic!

Hypothetical: Take Israel out of the equation and the Arabs will be killing eachother by the hundreds daily. Then what? By the time they're done with eachother, who will they set their sights on next? Europe? USA? Both?

What a genius idea! No really!


We could also relocate all the south americans of spanish descent back to spain / portugal, all of the north americans back to europe, etc.

Do you see the problem yet?.........

Originally posted by bluemirage5
And when the Jews start to florish in North Dakoda you'd want to rein in on their parade and demand it back once you see it thriving like no other American state!

Um .... No. I have no doubt they'd flourish .. but as far as the notion that I'd want to demand it back when they did ... I have no idea where you came up with that thought that I'd want to take it back .... I definately wouldn't wish to do that.

reply to post by ghash


What part of factual history dont you understand? To refresh your memory:

In the late 1960s, tensions between Palestinians and the Jordanian government increased greatly; heavily armed Arab resistance elements had created a virtual "state within a state" in Jordan, eventually controlling several strategic positions in that country. After their victory in the Battle of Karameh, Fatah and other Palestinian militias began taking control of civil life in Jordan. They set up roadblocks, publicly humiliated Jordanian police forces, molested women and levied illegal taxes—all of which Arafat either condoned or ignored. King Hussein considered this a growing threat to his kingdom's sovereignty and security, and attempted to disarm the militias. However, in order to avoid a military confrontation with opposition forces, Hussein dismissed several of his anti-PLO cabinet officials, including some of his own family members, and invited Arafat to become Prime Minister of Jordan. Arafat refused, citing his belief in the need for a Palestinian state with Palestinian leadership.
en.wikipedia.org...

it happened once and it will happen again. Dont fool yourself, Jordan is going down anyway.

reply to post by ghash


i know since you are jordanian its hard for you to accept the reality. but eventually there wont be a jordan when two thirds of your country is palestinian.

You sound like the South African's just before the apartheid. They also thought it would never happen.

The Funny thing is it already almost happened in your country once.
To be in denial to the option that it will happen again, and denial of factual history or the basic mathematics of demographics in jordan, make you just ignorant.

Sorry but true.
Jordan will be palestine whether you like it or not...

Hahaha that's your opinion man, and that's fine.
You can NEVER rule out anything, and I'm not I'm just trying to give you guys the actual picture of how life is in Jordan. How these "Palestinians" are actually born and raised here, and are no different from any other Jordanian.

The people of Jordan have a normal life, without the media we would never have guessed there's any type of conflicts going on around us. We have a lot of Western influence, there is no Sharia law.
And remember the protests in Jordan? The few hundreds? Turned out to be the Muslim Brotherhood from neighbouring countries.

Palestinians, Iraqis and Jordanians living in Jordan asked them for their demands. They wanted the overthrow of our government and implementation of retarded Sharia law, even the Muslims in Jordan will never accept a Saudi-style type of life. And we all know if we're ruled by them it's probably just to fight against Israel.
And why the hell would we give in to their demands? We're living a perfect, safe and relatively democratic life compared to other countries in the region.

So combine the arrogant-minded Jordanians against people (Brotherhood) who have their own agenda, what you get basically is thousands of Jordanians beating the crap out of them and kicking them out of the country.
Those very Jordanians of Palestinian origin, I swear I wish I could just video tape their response when they see what you're saying about taking over Jordan. None of them consider themselves to be Palestinians, they never say that, unless asked if they have any Palestinian origins. They've been here for decades, they have their families, their own companies, their jobs.

And the problem is, Jordanians and Palestinians consider ourselves to be one people, no matter what.
Yes, Arafat and the PLO tried to take over our country to fight Israel. That's 100% correct. But 60 years later, they've friggin established families, homes, jobs, companies.
Let me make it more relative to you guys. Canada is full of people from all walks of life. What you're basically suggesting, is that for example .. the Indians! The Indians are going to take over Canada because there's huge numbers of them there.

And basically, the very Palestinians you're talking about, if you ever mention Jordan as an alternative homeland, they will kick you in the nuts. They want Jerusalem, West Bank, Gaza and Ramallah back.
What you don't realise is that Islam isn't the thing tying Iraqis, Jordanians, Palestinians, Lebanese and Syrians together. It's the identity of Palestine which is, and trust me on this because I've grown up with those people and I've lived there my entire life. They don't want a HOUSE, they want their HOME back.

And what's even funnier is that you take the media's words over someone who's lived there his entire life. When the very purpose of this website, is to educate people that the main stream media are absolute scumbags and liars. But this proves the hypocrisy in people, you want to believe them for what makes you feel better, and not when it's not going your way.

reply to post by CountDrac


And no what's even funnier, is that all you people discuss is how Jordan is the alternative homeland, and how Jordan must become Palestine to solve this issue, etc.
And you pretend to be all-knowing, saying that "Jordan is going down.." and "Reality's hard to accept".
It would make sense if there was a war going on in Jordan, if the regime in the country was oppressive, but the problem is the people of Jordan (including Palestinians and Iraqis) pay their tribute to the King in anyway possible.
Our King, unlike that lying war-loving parrot (Yes we can) of a president, Obama, actually dedicates his time to know what the people of the country think would be better.

On non-occassions, he sat down and offered a huge feast to the public workers in Jordan (trashmen, labour-workers) etc. Paid for numerous medical operations, cancer patients, etc. Queen Rania, voluntarily takes no part in any decision making, she said it herself that all she wants is to focus on promoting education, bettering education, offering education, education, education, education .. Dozens of campaigns, dozens of charities set up.

And those Palestinians you call terrorists, and consider to somehow want to take over Jordan and wage war, and whatever crazy thoughts you have. Only one quote would sum this up perfectly.

"When the children of Gaza are gathering money for the children of Somalia, the rest of the world should cry in shame.” -Dr. Muhammad Amara.

I suggest you go watch a documentary called "The War You Don't See" by John Pilger, which talks about the media's roles in Iraq and Palestine.

reply to post by CountDrac


CountDrac, your first post shows how little you know of Jordan and the people living there. first of all your description of the quality of life that Palestinians have in Jordan couldn't be farther from reality. Palestinians who sought refuge in Jordan prospered and thrived. Many Jordanians of Palestinian origins actually hold key angles of the Jordanian economy. They are allowed to vote,have seats on the parliament although not many representing refugee camps but currently under correction , get social security benefits,education, health benefits ,offered an equal chance for jobs both in the private and public sectors,and not to mention, get appointed in major positions such as prime ministers and as heads of the royal court and trust me that is a big deal in Jordan. However I am not going to sugar coat things, Jordan has a high number of refugees located in a number of refugee camps, ( Not tents and stuff, people have houses not big ones but ok, with water and electricity.) The Palestinian population in Jordan have received far better treatment than in any other country in the region including Lebanon, Syria, Kuwait and of course Israel. So I see this topic as a way to say that Israel isn't the one directly responsible for the continuing plight of the Palestinian people but will offer a solution that includes Palestinians to go through another Nakba which is the arabic word for catastrophe and was what they called the Palestinian exodus in 1948 which by the way is a war crime, and relocating them to Jordan a country with very limited resources, limited access to water with too many refugees already, and a population that hugely dislikes Israeli policies in the region and I think we have the perfect recipe for disaster.

reply to post by ghash


PLO wanted jordan to fight israel? are you kidding me? that must be the stupidest excuse i ever heard.

Get this into your head, the PLO wanted Jordan because they are the majority. Thinking otherwise makes you both ignorant and delusional.

Also the fact that Jordan is ruled by monarchy just shows how backwards you are. Any ruling monarchy should be demolished in the 21 century. Former king Hussein destroyed his opposition by killing his opponents.

You are not in touch with reality. Jordan being Palestinian in the future is a fact. So i suggest you start Dealing with it…

Your posts are ignorant and a waist of my time.
Dracula out

reply to post by CountDrac
Since you insist that the "Palestinian majority" are hell bent on taking over the country then why didn't they succeed back then when it was as you describe it an armed rebellion? the answer simply is that those Palestinians you speak off are in fact living happily in Jordan under the Hashemite rule and those who rebelled and refused to adhere to rules didn't represent the majority, as far as why they did it was because after every PLO operation against Israel, the Israelis would accuse Jordan of harboring terrorists and a retaliation strike against Jordanian villages near the border would take place, this prompted the king to pressure PLO members to stop or he fears that a war would break out, however the PLO considered this as a betrayal and this is when Yasser Arafat said "Liberation of Jerusalem begins with the Liberation of Amman" As a sign that he wanted to overthrow the king, the situation intensified when the prime minister of Jordan then called for attacking PLO camps which the king refused and sacked the prime minister and stated on television " We are all freedom fighters" as a way to defuse the tension building between the army and the PLO, but finally the PLO pushed the army too far with two assassination attempts on the king already, the king had to make a choice between ordering the army to attack while retaining power or the army would have attacked without orders and the king would lose power. So please stop talking about Jordan as if you know the country which you don't. And please stop spreading false information, people come to ATS to share the truth not listen to the same type of nonsense the MSM would like us believe. And if you don't believe me check out the protests that were held outside the American and Israeli embassy in the Jordanian capital Amman last week which were against any plans to solve the Israeli/Palestinian conflict on the expense of Jordan.

reply to post by ghash


Lots of Hasbara Trolls here Gash, you're holding up good so far my friend. Just remember not to be baited into the personal attacks, and your points will always remain coherent

reply to post by CountDrac


Yes, when your country is invaded, and you are kicked out, the most reasonable thing to do is take over the country you sought refugee in and take over it instead. They didn't want us to fight Israel?
Do you have any idea how sacred Muslims consider Jerusalem to be?

The "Palestinian" majority in Jordan are living perfect lives, they have their jobs, families, homes, relatives. They have their friends, their schools, they are normal human beings that are living day to day life.
But when you take all that into account, and when they still demand the right to return, you know that Palestinians want their land back, they want their history and heritage to be restored.

Dictatorship? I'm sorry, but if we're going to take the United States as the best example of a democracy, then democracy must be described as the right to choose your dictator.
Let's just compare Jordan to the US, who has supported terrorist groups in order to overtake and dismantle the Soviet Union? US.

www.youtube.com...

Who has invaded a country (Iraq) under the disguise of "bringing democracy", when all they've done is simply kill hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children. And whoops, the WMDs that Iraq had, POOF! Disappeared into thin air. And if you watch the documentary by John Pilger, you'll actually see major MSM journalists apologise, including other high-ranking officials from the US and the UK. But let's just ignore that.

On the other hand, what has Jordan done? We have received so many refugees, 2/3 of our population are of Palestinian origins. We aren't lauded for that, we are simply thrown in the frying pan as the alternative homeland.
Who has taken in hundreds of thousands of Iraqi refugees in the war whose lives are prospering now?

Who got 3 hotels in 11th of November bombed by Iraqis affiliated with Al-Qaeda? Jordan. What has the King done? Has he condemned the entire Iraqi population as terrorists? Did he launch a war on terror? Did he invade countries all over the world and set up bases? No, we took in more Iraqis, and kept our calm, because the actions of a few do not render the rest as terrorists.

Let's look at something close to home (as in Jordan), Israel is supposedly the only democracy in Jordan. Let's see what a democratic country does, and how free-speech is allowed.
Oh hello there young American Jew visiting Israel, you are certainly welcome to voice your opinion on the state of affairs.

www.youtube.com...

No whoops, we'll beat you in public and I wouldn't even want to speculate what happened to him. I wish he's okay now because that man must be lauded.

The US as a democratic country? Occupy Wall Street, Occupy New York, Occupy, Occupy, Occupy..
Are they even talked about in MSM? Is President Obama doing any steps to help them out? Or are they oppressed, and martial law is applied. Naah but let's just ignore that. Let's just ignore the US's actions all around the world. Let's ignore that a poll in Europe showed that the majority consider Israel as threat to world peace.
Let's ignore the actions of the US government, the wars, torture and what else they have done.

Jordan has sent troops to Haiti, has taken in refugees from all over the region, it has maintained good relations with Israel, avoided any kind of conflict with any country, and we didn't stick our heads in the sand and pretend everything's good and dandy. The King takes an active part in trying to reconcile relations between Palestinians and Israelis. The government pays out of their own pockets some of the price of oil, in order to reduce it's price to the population. We don't have oil, we're one of the poorest countries in terms of water access.

On the other hand, the US used more than 7 trillion dollars. Wait, 7 TRILLION dollars to bail out banks. Billions to wage illegal and unnecessary wars, when it could have used that to help out it's people.

You can talk about democracy all day long, Sir, and you can describe having a monarchy as backwards and wrong. But the people of Jordan, including Jordanians, Jordanians of Palestinian origins and Iraqis consider themselves lucky to be living under the Hashemite rule.
I've lived there my entire life, but definitely a guy from across the world can tell me what's right and what's wrong, just like the US, tries to dictates to the rest of the world what's acceptable and what's not.
When it's own love child, Israel, has NOT signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has not disclosed it's nuclear program to the world, when it has not answered to shouts from the rest of the world about the illegal occupation of Palestine, and the war crimes it's commited.

Democracy? HAH! What a joke.
Jordan will always be Jordan. Go enjoy your democratic life before the US bankrupts again and mass riots occur on the street

reply to post by JYone


Couldn't have described it better my friend.
All those facts I would have forgot about where it not for you, fantastic.


reply to post by iamconcerned


Thanks man, I honestly try, but it's one of the most sensitive subjects that have been going on in history, and I try to keep my calm.

reply to post by ghash


All your points are based on your ignorant opinion and not factual history.

You didnt answer my main point which is if two thirds of your country are palestinians, which have tried in the past to overthrow the king, what is the likelihood it will happen again?

Let me give you a clue since it seems you are oblivious to reality. 100%

No matter how many post you write, deep down you know that eventually you will be called a palestinian. Jordan has no future as a jordanian state...

Have a nice day

Originally posted by CountDrac
reply to post by ghash

 

You didnt answer my main point which is if two thirds of your country are palestinians

edit on 1-12-2011 by CountDrac because: (no reason given)

THEY ARE BORN AND BRED IN JORDAN SO THEY ARE JORDANIAN. What part of this don't you understand?