Absolutes, generalizations, mis-truths, etc.

reply to post by Shepp


I believe you're speaking of E-prime, where you exclude all absolute statements (such as is, to be etc.) from language.

E-Prime

reply to post by Shepp


I was not implying anything about you specifically Shepp. I was making one of those generalizations. There are many intellectuals that cannot bear to think of themselves as a primarily emotional being. Make any sort of comment to their being primarily driven by emotion, and you will ellicit a VERY emotional response, irony is fickle is it not? I was just giving you my take on the why's and what fors of peoples choice of language. We choose emotionally charged generalizations because it targets the largest number of ears in the most effective manner. Is it catagorically correct? Absolutely not. Is it effective? I dunno watch TV sometime, and you tell me. My point was that no matter how high your I.Q. is everyone, and I mean everyone is primarily driven by their emotions. To say otherwise is to posit that you are not a human being. Ergo the most effective means of communication with the most human beings is to employ emotional devices. The true wordsmith is he who can translate absolute truth in such a manner that the emotions pay attention.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


YES! That's where I got the idea originally! Thank you!

I was looking for it earlier but was googling 'e-squared' haha.

Thank you much, I'm gonna put this in OP.

^Turns out I can't anymore.

reply to post by Shepp


Yeah I found out about E-Prime by reading Robert Anton Wilson who claimed it was the best way to avoid confrontation when spewing your opinion.

reply to post by Binder


I can agree, honesty and reason definitely charge emotions.

Originally posted by Shepp
I see a lot of people speak in discussions presenting things that could not be true as factual, as well as saying something to always be true. It's not generally in such an aggressive and ignorant way as the above sentence makes it seems; it's much more subtle. It comes in through language, and you hardly notice it.

"I hate TV." vs "I seem to hate most TV programs."

Now the latter is most likely more accurate. It's really an accuracy of meaning thing. I consider that important.

"ATS is stupid" vs "Most people on ATS seem to have problems with unthoughtful presentations of ideas"

The latter is much 'harder' to type in this case but it avoids generalizing a whole group of people, all of whom you may not consider 'stupid'.

Now it's true that you, yourself, might know everything but if that's not the case then typing mindlessly can generally get you into situations you might not like. Even in real life. Yes, this applies to real life. The reason being: Thoughtful and accurate communication breeds honesty and honest communication is the only way to go (generally).

I don't know, though. I could just be ranting. Try to think into it though and it may prove to be more useful than it may appear. What do you think?

The overall message is: Honest Communication

edit on 26-11-2011 by Shepp because: (no reason given)

Don't think the thoughts you aren't thinking and this will all seem logical. You can only go where you can't be before you arrive at the beginning again. In the end, it's just a continuation.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


What was the objective of your post?

Originally posted by Shepp
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

What was the objective of your post?

Your OP was very observant of how people communicate. My answer was a joke using what you said with paradox. Just some dumb humor saying nothing well.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


LOL- you had me very confused for a little while.

Originally posted by Shepp
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

LOL- you had me very confused for a little while.

I am a music teacher. I love telling my kids to stop playing the notes they aren't playing. Check to see if they are listening.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


That's why you're so good at that haha; I'm still in school.

reply to post by Shepp


Honesty, and reason can charge emotions, but so can lies, and treachery. That is the issue. There is no cessation of being an emotional creature, even if you do solve the predicative, and identity disparity in state of being verbs. I could deceive in E-prime as well as traditional english. You can make a series of true statements that lead to a false conclusion. You can also employ lies that lead to the truth. It is the content of the heart that must be derived, and that is the greatest challenge.

reply to post by Binder


no, lies make u realize ur freedom first before being through some emotions forces to

but honesty is starting by ur emotions forces and that is why it is very hard to be free from being honest even if u r actually truly free understanding all and out of it

reply to post by absolutely


Not sure what you're getting at there. I am assuming you are not a native english speaker. Try re-wording that I am interested in what you have to say, but not really sure what that is.

It's just hyperbole

Hyperboles are exaggerations to create emphasis or effect. As a literary device, hyperbole is often used in poetry, and is frequently encountered in casual speech. An example of hyperbole is: "The bag weighed a ton."[2] Hyperbole helps to make the point that the bag was very heavy, although it is not probable that it would actually weigh a ton.

100% of internet argument are made up from hyperbole and logical fallacies including this one

For me at least, there's something helpful about seeing my own honest thoughts when written. It makes things less emotionally charged, that's for sure. All I'm really trying to encourage is people to be honest and prudent in their sentence making, for the sake of civilized, constructive discussion (What we're all here for, right?).

Originally posted by Binder
reply to post by absolutely

 

Not sure what you're getting at there. I am assuming you are not a native english speaker. Try re-wording that I am interested in what you have to say, but not really sure what that is.

if u r interested in what i said so it is to u to try rewording that in order to catch my attention positively

and stop meaning what u r being objective absolute fact, u r obviously nothing to me and so to others

i dont have to any, i type for myself free pleasures, and what u did understood is all what was meant, nothing to what u said

reply to post by Shepp


In instances of conflict resolution what you are suggesting works wonderfully well. To seperate the emotion from the actual trigger. Such as if you forgot to take the trash out as husbands, and boyfriends are wont to do. When the lady of the house accuses us of "never" taking it out, or "always" being late. It is true that that is usually not the case that we truly never, ever take out the trash, or we are without fail perpetually late. It is important to be able to communicate the emotion honestly. So yes, instead of "You are always late." - "I feel our plans together are not as high a priority to you as I would like them to be." is ten fold better. It allows an opening of discussion, not just the pinning of a label, and case closed. Note that the statement was not written in E-prime, but was just as clear, honest,and effective.

I've just never been a fan of E-prime. It seems a bit arbitrary, and in some instances can actually cause ambiguity. That said, it is a good experiment in thinking, and communication. We do overuse copulae, but to completely remove them from speech is not optimum. Instead we should focus on proper use.