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Absolutes, generalizations, mis-truths, etc.

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posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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I see a lot of people speak in discussions presenting things that could not be true as factual, as well as saying something to always be true. It's not generally in such an aggressive and ignorant way as the above sentence makes it seems; it's much more subtle. It comes in through language, and you hardly notice it.

"I hate TV." vs "I seem to hate most TV programs."

Now the latter is most likely more accurate. It's really an accuracy of meaning thing. I consider that important.

"ATS is stupid" vs "Most people on ATS seem to have problems with unthoughtful presentations of ideas"

The latter is much 'harder' to type in this case but it avoids generalizing a whole group of people, all of whom you may not consider 'stupid'.

Now it's true that you, yourself, might know everything but if that's not the case then typing mindlessly can generally get you into situations you might not like. Even in real life. Yes, this applies to real life. The reason being: Thoughtful and accurate communication breeds honesty and honest communication is the only way to go (generally).

I don't know, though. I could just be ranting. Try to think into it though and it may prove to be more useful than it may appear. What do you think?



The overall message is: Honest Communication

edit on 26-11-2011 by Shepp because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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That and the whole don't-confuse-correlation-with-causation-thing also seem to be reoccurring themes here on ATS ... generally speaking.
Though, there also happen to be some pretty bright minds on here who are willing to take the time to construct meaningful, articulate, and accurate statements. It balances out, for the most part.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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I think that it is largely due to a laziness in speech. We (yes a generalization) tend to spout out the first, easiest, words that come to mind, often reflecting an emotional reaction and not something thought out.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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How accurate of an idea do you require?




"I hate TV." vs "I seem to hate most TV programs."


Why not say what programs you don't like, or list the programs you do like and we can be left to assume you don't like anything else? That's even more accurate.

Another example: "I don't like The Simpsons"

How do we know you just don't like most of the episodes you seen? There might be episodes you like, but didn't see. Or it could be characters, or an era of style of putting together the episodes.

If you feel a poster is too vague, you're free to ask them to be more clear, I know I do.
edit on 26-11-2011 by satron because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Shepp

Now it's true that you, yourself, might know everything but if that's not the case then typing mindlessly can generally get you into situations you might not like. Even in real life. Yes, this applies to real life. The reason being: Thoughtful and accurate communication breeds honesty and honest communication is the only way to go (generally).


Communication is also a 2-way street, so while you might make a true effort to be thoughtful and accurate, the person receiving the information you send, might not see it that way!

It also takes the participant you are communicating with some skills on active listening, or reading.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by supine
 


Very interesting point, I didn't see that at first. That is probably a much longer and much more verbose post in itself!



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Shepp
reply to post by supine
 


Very interesting point, I didn't see that at first. That is probably a much longer and much more verbose post in itself!


Communication is also a form of style for the person using it.

I like mine short and to the point. Other people like to take the long road to reach a destination.

That is something else to take into consideration when dealing with or communicating with others.

Also it's ok to ask a person to clarify something they said if you don't understand it. It's when people don't do that that communication can get messed up!
edit on 26-11-2011 by supine because: add



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by supine
 


I understand (Pretty sure I do, at least). But when ten people who don't understand come together...

Half the things I've said on ATS go like this: "Can you please tell me what you mean by ____."

Haha
edit on 26-11-2011 by Shepp because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by Shepp
reply to post by supine
 


I understand (Pretty sure I do, at least). But when ten people who don't understand come together...


It's called a "lynch mob!"


See, that is how I understood what you typed here. Close, or no cigar?



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by supine
 


No, exactly correct!


From my favorite TV show: youtu.be...



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Shepp
reply to post by supine
 


No, exactly correct!


From my favorite TV show: youtu.be...


Yes, well, when people leave (......) at the end of a sentence, it leaves a lot of room for interpretation and imagination.

Sometimes people do that for a reason. It does cloud what you were meaning, and is a perfect example for your thread.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by supine
 


The one thing is that you can break the 'rules' for a rhetorical effect. Actually another thing that ties into this is if you use completely honest, prudent language most of the time when it comes time to really argue or make a point, using the normal tools of speech manipulation has that much more of an impact, I've found at least. It's just all around better. See how that would work, though? I'm glad you brought that up.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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Nice thread. Language is difficult enough to interpret with people you know and talk with on a daily basis, then there are those you have to communicate with that you don't know...............Then there's the internet. Generally, it seems threads become "my e-peen is bigger than your e-peen", even if it's not outright personal attacks and vulgarities. That sounds vague, I know, but you see it all the time in threads where someone very subtly shoots them down based on a personal attack. But because they didn't say "you're f'ing stupid", then it's not an outright attack that a mod can do anything.

As has been noted in this thread, simply asking for clarification or asking someone to elaborate is much more effective and useful than anything else. But I'm guilty of violating that myself, I admit.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by DrunkenDonuts
 


We all do sometimes, it's okay haha. The passive aggressiveness is extremely notable here on ATS, at least for me. You seem to talk from experience.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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bc free space is always existing in forums communications way, since at least u dont type at the same time then the other, u can then witness how free dimension cant do any negative while keeping any as it is for more if it wants

so u could see how force of one will is what confuse everyone in the relation of superior inferior one

who enjoy meaning its superiority pretenses one love to force another freedom to serve him

who enjoy meaning its inferiority benefits one love to think knowing the other freedom being for ego pleasures

so each get to see only one freedom existing itself while meaning it not true

so there cant b objectively true communications since what i described is god conditions for everyone as one ego liar, from meaning everyone inferior to his superior ego pleasure life



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by absolutely
 


I don't understand.
edit on 26-11-2011 by Shepp because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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It is because we are not logical beings. I do not care how smart, educated, or rational you believe you are. One of the first tenets of psychology is the realization that we are not rational beings with the ability to process emotions. We are emotional beings with the capacity to rationalize. We all know this on a subconcious level. We know we will be much better heard if we patronize the senses, and stir up emotion than if we simply blurt pure fact in a monotone manner. Which sounds better?

"Cry havoc! and let loose the dogs of war!" or "Physically neutralize our opponent for our mutual protection."

As humans we also all have a huge confirmation bias for our own way of thinking. One of the things that made Albert Einstein such a genius was his realization of this. He stated "All models are wrong, some are merely useful." In other words if your way works for you, then by all means use it. Just realize simultaneously in the back of your mind that eventually at some level you will be wrong, and will need to adapt. Your way is not "The way." No one's way is. We are all wrong, all the time, and about everything. Yes this includes Christians, Muslims, and Atheists. So just relax in the comforting and only absolute truth that we are all wrong, but some of us are really good at heuristics, and finding paradigms that work, as long as they are adaptive.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Binder
It is because we are not logical beings. I do not care how smart, educated, or rational you believe you are. One of the first tenets of psychology is the realization that we are not rational beings with the ability to process emotions. We are emotional beings with the capacity to rationalize. We all know this on a subconcious level. We know we will be much better heard if we patronize the senses, and stir up emotion than if we simply blurt pure fact in a monotone manner.


(Just for the record, If you are trying to imply I think I'm more educated or superior you are wrong.)



Which sounds better?

"Cry havoc! and let loose the dogs of war!" or "Physically neutralize our opponent for our mutual protection."


It depends on the ears. Truly it does.



As humans we also all have a huge confirmation bias for our own way of thinking. One of the things that made Albert Einstein such a genius was his realization of this. He stated "All models are wrong, some are merely useful." In other words if your way works for you, then by all means use it. Just realize simultaneously in the back of your mind that eventually at some level you will be wrong, and will need to adapt. Your way is not "The way." No one's way is. We are all wrong, all the time, and about everything. Yes this includes Christians, Muslims, and Atheists. So just relax in the comforting and only absolute truth that we are all wrong, but some of us are really good at heuristics, and finding paradigms that work, as long as they are adaptive.


Rarely is anyone completely correct which is why I made the OP.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Shepp
 


superior freedom is right sense, so the only objective reason of free existence other then itself is superiority reference, so superior perspective or superior pretense from which inferiority is a result of

what u see as superior is the reason of what u would see all else objectives inferior
and what u believe being superior is the reason of what u would judge all others inferiors
principally while obviously it became the only living reason since the original sense died by existing objectively

that is how all seem from wether meaning being free from taking advantage of what else do all
or being free from possessing all what others do

but that is not the right free sense, right free sense is just the constant free awareness out of all and especially itself



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by absolutely
 


I get it now. Mister, the reason I made the post is because of what you are saying. So we can have honest communication, aware that we are not always correct.

I don't believe it's a 'better' system than any other way of communicating- not even screaming cuss words at the top of your lungs, because that has its uses -It's the only simple way I know of to communicate honestly and straightforwardly.

The whole point is that we're honest and accurate in our communications.




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