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Intelligence agencies and Occultism

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posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
What else could I add to 'substantiate' my speculations?
Perhaps links to the appropriate laws that validate your claim that

It's illegal for a known psychic to gamble at a Casino (and yet it 'isn't' real).. It's also illegal for someone to use occultism (summon spirits) to invest in the stock market......
I'm looking, but haven't seen any evidence that such laws exist...



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


How frequently would you think a law such as "known psychics are not allowed to gamble in our casino" would be invoked? Not frequently, i would bet. But in any case, if its not a state law, its definitely a policy that every casino who cares about its assets would invoke.

Criss Angel (the famous TV magician) for instance, isn't allowed to gamble anywhere in las vegas - where he lives. Why? Because they think he would be able to beat the odds. Same thing with David Blain. They've both discussed this on their respective shows.

If psychics are so unreal, or the TV magic performed by Criss Angel, unrelated to occultic principles, then why of why, would a Casino be so cautious about people like this playing in their casinos? You, being a freemason, should know...but i guess since every one of yours posts is contrary to any ideas of conspiracy, or the existence of a metaphysical (despite your association with a fraternity that studies metaphysics) is strange. Must you always play the devils advocate?

As for laws against using occultism in the stock market. Again, this would be something only 'initiates' would be privy to; since, society at large knows nothing at all about these things, its not relevant or even wise to publicize such prohibitions, and, those who do make money in the stock market in any prodigious way will probably be found out by the authorities who use the same means.

These aren't things you would have formal laws on.. But nonetheless, there are various incidents where a person who used occultism, spirit summoning, in his investing, was forever disallowed from investing again. I wish i could find the people i read this on. It happened to two people, men who were from wealthy families, who used their knowledge of occultism to hit it big in the stock market.....Who when found out got in trouble...

I will try to find these pieces i read. Maybe it'll add more 'meat' to my argument, even though in principle it seems to logical to begin with.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by MemoryShock
 




Yes I can.


And no, you can not. If it has practical value - hence the term "practical magic" - to the seasoned occultist, then it would be very reasonable to wager that the political elite - nobility, etc, are well aware of its principles, and make use of it.

 

I'll match my lack of intricate occultic knowledge with your presumed lack of historical research. While I will basically omit my thoughts on Crowley and the like (basically a system of archetypes meant to explain personality and progression of an individual throughout a lifetime as well as perhaps an attempt to explain even more archaic/ancient recordings), I do know that science and the manipulation of the environment were closely held secrets in order to gain an authority over those who didn't know, couldn't figure it out and wanted the results of the apllied knowledge...or magic. A great example of this actually takes us a bit before many of the more noted 'Occultists' to Heron, the Hero of Alexandria. He used math and engineering skills to bamboozle those who knew less than nothing about neither into believing that temples were the source of miracles and to empty their pockets in support...of course,. that is not all that he did but the first vending machine dispensed 'holy water' to the believer with a coin and he constructed temple doors that opened 'magically' through the use of basic rope and pulleys...something he did for competing temples who wanted to gain a larger congregation (more people equals more tithe).

So yeah...it is entirely possible that while Pythagoras was formulating his mathematical formulas that other tried to apply numbers in their own way...creating symbolic diatribes and ceremony much like a snake oil salesman would do to influence people and their pocketbooks.

I could actually keep on going but I figured that I would take it easy on you; if you have any substantial support for your supposition (which to be clear, I support honest inquiry) then by all means, my ears and eyes are open. But I am fairly confident that, historically, knowledge has been intentionally hidden, misrepresented and misinterpreted to the extent that we just accept the reality of incredible things without actually researching for our own comprehension...and people like to take advantage of such inclinations.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 




I do know that science and the manipulation of the environment were closely held secrets in order to gain an authority over those who didn't know, couldn't figure it out and wanted the results of the apllied knowledge...or magic.


Again, you must not understand occultism very well. If you've read Crowley (what have you read of his?) I would assume you are knowledgeable of the theory of creation; a Kabbalistic theory (adopted by western magicians) comprising a 4 fold universe, reflected in the 4 letters of the tetragrammaton (the name of God in Hebrew) יהוה ... The universe unfolds and takes on a separated existence at the world of emanation. From there, it expands into length, breadth, and width, and takes on the state of a fixed, self conscious creation - the world of creation. From here, it further evolves and fills a space, this being the world of formation. Then from here, theres the world of action.

So there are 4 levels. Emanation, creation, formation and action. The former is identified with the world of pure intelligence, the world of the 'archetypes' or Sephiroth; attributes identical with, but distinct from, the infinite. Hence, its called the world of emanation, where everything is experienced as a continuation of, or indistinct from, the infinite Godhead. Creation is identified with thought, with logic, and cognition. This is what's allegorically referred to as the Seraphim - abstract intelligences which underlie laws of space and time. Beneath this is the world of formation, identified with emotion. Thought FILLS emotion. It leads to it. Thought is localized to the brain, but subsequently fills the body, in emotion. Similarly, there is the 'chayoth' (chariots) the numinous angels which connect the higher abstract realms with the physical realm. Beneath this is action. The angels of this realm are called the Ophanim - the wheels, the actual, metaphysical energies which move physical creation.

Thus, there is a complete correspondence, or analogy, between our own metaphysical processes, in intellect, thought, emotion, and action, and the physical world itself. The physical world is a Macrocosm, while the human being, is the microcosm.

Thus, if one can manipulate the energies of the higher realms, the lower realms, as a matter of causation, are effected as well.

As for knowledge of math, music, logic, etc. The 7 liberal sciences are themsleves attributed to the Gods. Where do you think such knowledge originally came from? In the bible, Enoch (Heb. instruction) is said to have lived 365 years (the number of days in the solar year; connecting him with physicality) and then to have walked with Elohim (which has the same numerical value as HaTeva- nature. Elohim means 'powers'). In apocryphal writings, many inventions are attributed to Enoch. He's also identified with the Greco-Egyptian Hermes, and Thoth. In other words, it was an archetypal reality which imparts the hidden wisdom beneath the workings of creation. These 'gifts' although logically understood, and scientific, are not any less scientific then the metaphysical 'science' that the Kabbalah teaches. In fact, in the mysteries, these two spheres are divided into the "lesser mysteries" i.e. the 7 liberal arts, and the "Greater mysteries" the knowledge of the spiritual/archetypal realms. The latter is more fundamental then the former, and hence, is a 'greater' mystery.

No doubt, charlatanry is a real thing. There have been people who use the science of magnets, etc, to create the impression of magic. But nonetheless, that still doesn't take away from the metaphysical FACTUALITY of whats described above. You may disbelieve, but you disbelieve because of ignorance, or a sanctimonious skepticism.

In truth, and paradoxically, skepticism - the desire to not believe - separates one from experiencing supernatural phenomena. EVERY tradition teaches this. The belief of the individual, his full attention, his own inner, spiritual being, has to be united, and focused, in order for outer phenomena to become mirrored or projected. If that is lacking, don't expect for your suppositions about things to change. We should understand the truth of this from psychology. If one believes he has a problem, for instance, a social phobia, and always accepts this assumption before he acts, and references it in his mind, his very connection to that archetypal dimension of thought PREVENTS him from transcending the world he seeks to be separated from: In the case of a social phobia, to not feel scared. He has to trust in himself, in order to separate himself from that obsessive thought. Likewise, with occultism, one has to empty his mind of all references, all skepticism.
edit on 27-11-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
How frequently would you think a law such as "known psychics are not allowed to gamble in our casino" would be invoked? Not frequently, i would bet. But in any case, if its not a state law, its definitely a policy that every casino who cares about its assets would invoke.


Then they should all go to Atlantic City where even card counting is legal.


As of October 2011, there are no federal, state or local laws which prohibit card counting in the United States as long as no external card counting device or person assists the player in counting cards.[17] Casinos continue to offer blackjack only because the vast majority of unskilled casual blackjack players more than make up for the small number of advantage players capable of reducing the casinos' edge. In their pursuit to catch card counters, casinos misidentify and ban unskilled casual players whose betting style (or lack of) unknowingly mimics betting patterns of card counters.[18]

In all parts of the United States, with Atlantic City being the sole exception, casinos may bar any player for any reason including card counting as long as the Federal laws against discrimination based on race, creed, sex, national origin, age, or physical disability are not violated.

Atlantic City casinos in the state of New Jersey are forbidden from barring card counters as a result of a successful lawsuit. In 1979 Ken Uston, a Blackjack Hall of Fame inductee, filed a lawsuit against an Atlantic City casino, claiming that casinos did not have the right to bar skilled players. (Uston v. Resorts International Hotel Inc., 445 A.2d 370 N.J. 1982)[19]. The New Jersey Supreme Court agreed, ruling that "the state's control of Atlantic City's casinos is so complete that only the New Jersey Casino Control Commission has the power to make rules to exclude skillful players." As of 2011, New Jersey Casino Control Commission has not made such a ruling, thereby -- by statute -- Atlantic City casinos are not allowed to bar card counters. In response to Uston's legal victory, Atlantic City casinos began adding decks, moving up shuffle points, and introducing other player-unfriendly rules to further decrease a skilled player's potential advantage.[20] source


If Chris Angel and David Blaine were actually psychic they could make a mint.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by dontreally
What else could I add to 'substantiate' my speculations?
Perhaps links to the appropriate laws that validate your claim that

It's illegal for a known psychic to gamble at a Casino (and yet it 'isn't' real).. It's also illegal for someone to use occultism (summon spirits) to invest in the stock market......
I'm looking, but haven't seen any evidence that such laws exist...


Their is no written law that states know psychic cant gamble at a Casino. Its Casino law that they can ask you to leave the premises and not return at anytime and if you count cards in black jack and 4 suit say would you follow use please you better hope its to the front door or the comp desk never let them take you to the back of the house cause its their house and their rulers of it the Legal frame work of society starts to fade the further from the front door to the dungeon door at the back of house where they are Boss tycoon with powers of jury judge and executioner once they ruff you up and take your picture and info you give them they share it with other Casinos Black balling you like homeland security putting you on the no fly list.





Legilimency is the magical skill of extracting feelings and memories from another person's mind — a form of magical "telepathy" ( an able practitioner of the art, dismisses the colloquial term, "mind-reading", as a drastic oversimplification). It also allows one to convey visions or memories to another person, whether real or imaginary. A witch or wizard possessing this skill is called a Legilimens, and can, for example, detect lies and deceit in another person, witness memories in another person's past, or "plant" false visions in another's mind.

Give no info and nothing you don't want them to know and think will consume their thoughts
Read the tells their almost always apparent for those look, see and understand them
Body language is a form of non-verbal communication, which consists of body posture, gestures, facial expressions, and eye movements. Humans send and interpret such signals almost entirely subconsciously.
Everyone has tells but some are false and these tell are used in deceiving the mind of others to beleif what you want


The counter-skill to Legilimency is Occlumency (and its user, known as an Occlumens), by which one can compartmentalise one's emotions, or prevent a Legilimens from discovering thoughts or memories which contradict one's spoken words or actions. An advanced form of Occlumency is planting false temporary memories inside an Occlumens´ own head while blocking all other true memories, so if a Legilimens, even a highly skilled one, were to attempt to read the mind he or she would find false memories only and believe everything was right.

Occult Magic the power to control and read minds Until you're truly able to disconnect from the money you need to put in to play, it's not possible to play No-Limit poker correctly. Play games within your roll, and go into the game with the correct mind-set to play proper poker.

Remember, making money is a byproduct of winning at the game.

You do not go to a poker table with the intent of making money; you go with the intent of playing a high-quality game. Money is just the way players keep score.

1) Illogical (or Transparent) Bet Sizing

If the bets you make give your opponent an obvious picture of the hand you're holding, then your opponents will never make any mistakes. If your opponents are never making mistakes, you're not going to be making any money.

Lots of beginners will think of only one aspect of betting, ignoring all the others. As a result, their bet sizing becomes a detriment rather than an asset.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
These aren't things you would have formal laws on.
And yet, in your opening post you insist that such laws exist.

If they don't, then you're founding your argument on a lie, and this thread should be moved to the hoax section immediately.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
Criss Angel (the famous TV magician) for instance, isn't allowed to gamble anywhere in las vegas - where he lives. Why? Because they think he would be able to beat the odds. Same thing with David Blain. They've both discussed this on their respective shows.
Both make a living by cheating. Both are capable of counting cards as part of their act. Neither has the slightest hint of supernatural or paranormal ability. They're just showmen.

I've hung out with Penn & Telller socially and have talked with Ricky Jay on a few occasions. They do tricks. They're good at what they do. But it's nothing that couldn't be learned with time and practice.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
I was just thinking..... It's illegal for a known psychic to gamble at a Casino (and yet it 'isn't' real).. It's also illegal for someone to use occultism (summon spirits) to invest in the stock market......


Both of those are certainly news to me...Anything to back up such a claim??



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 





If they don't, then you're founding your argument on a lie, and this thread should be moved to the hoax section immediately.


It's not a lie. It's casino policy in Las Vegas that known psychics are not allowed to bet.




Both make a living by cheating. Both are capable of counting cards as part of their act. Neither has the slightest hint of supernatural or paranormal ability. They're just showmen.


Right... Well, if you had a knowledge of metaphysical systems, and experience with practical magic, you would understand these things are not fake, but quite real.

Perhaps David Blaine relies less on psychic powers than sheer human tenacity of spirit, for instance, when he performs those endurance stunts.

Criss Angel on the other hand, despite his theatrics, seems to use occult forces. Maybe there's someone or something on the other side which he uses in his acts? Maybe his emblem, or sigil, which he always wears, and puts on everything he owns, is the point of connection between this realm and the spiritual, which binds the spiritual force he's identified with this physical world. .

Plus, since I'm entertained by such shows, he has mentioned on more than one occasion about his interest in mysticism, which i think seals the deal. Also, he had a mind freak episode that explored his new house, which was filled with obscure mystical objects, symbols and regalia.

Don't let appearances fool you. He might be 'so over the top' for the sake of making himself look like a mere TV illusionist
edit on 27-11-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
Right... Well, if you had a knowledge of metaphysical systems, and experience with practical magic, you would understand these things are not fake, but quite real.
I do have quite a bit of experience in such matters, personally preferring the Hine/Dunn methods of chaos magick for my own practices, but I know there are a number of different systems that can produce similar results.

I also know that there's a huge difference between what can be done with practical magick and what you'll see on stage in Vegas. Stage magicians are professional liars and con men. No effect that they produce requires anything beyond skill, technique and props.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 





No effect that they produce requires anything beyond skill, technique and props.


There's no reason why a magician like Criss Angel wouldn't make use of ALL these means. Skill, technique, props, as well as spiritual forces.... Is there a law against this??? If these things can be done in general, why couldn't they be done in public??

Harry Houdini as well, who's father was a rabbi - and probably a Kabbalist - must of relied on the same methods (as well as any other device that could create the desired effect)...

I never doubted that Criss Angel uses conventional magician tricks, But i think he combines that skill with occultism....Something people in general doubt, and so, ironically, his theatrical extravagance, which comes off as so fake (to most people), is at times, real.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Really, you've hung out with Penn and teller? The arch-skeptics who take great pleasure in "exposing the lies of psychic" phenomena, doubting its existence???

So much for truth. I think propaganda and politics takes a front seat to how things really are. If you've hung out with Penn and Teller, then they must know of occultic forces? Spiritual realms of mind and consciousness, that make a mockery of the concrete fixity of so-called physical laws of nature. When really, physical laws of nature are merely processes that frequently happen. Because it happens over and over again, in a predictable fashion, people (falsely) assume that they are immutable.

Certainly, you must know how true that is since you practice chaos magick.....



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


LOL they obviously know about this stuff existing but obviously the Vatican doesn't wish for the masses to know about it!



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
Really, you've hung out with Penn and teller? The arch-skeptics who take great pleasure in "exposing the lies of psychic" phenomena, doubting its existence???
Yes, the very same. Penn & I have argued on a number of topics over the years, but that hasn't kept me from getting invited to the Slammer for parties.


If you've hung out with Penn and Teller, then they must know of occultic forces? Spiritual realms of mind and consciousness, that make a mockery of the concrete fixity of so-called physical laws of nature. When really, physical laws of nature are merely processes that frequently happen. Because it happens over and over again, in a predictable fashion, people (falsely) assume that they are immutable.

Certainly, you must know how true that is since you practice chaos magick.....
Not at all. The physical forces of nature ARE immutable. No amount of spell casting can make a human levitate or walk through walls. Magick cannot change or influence physics, but it can influence opportunity, "luck" and other intangible forces that science has yet to label properly. And yes, I do know that from the successful practice of my craft.



posted on Nov, 27 2011 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 





Not at all. The physical forces of nature ARE immutable.


I'm sort of wondering what sort of stuff you're reading, because you and I have come to quite different conclusions. When a spiritual force - the principle - suspends the process that leads to the effect "the law of nature"....what do you call that? Is that not a change in the normal functioning of things? That would make the physical law mutable. Changeable. And one CAN do that, and any person acquainted with Kabbalah, or Vedanta, would admit to that.



No amount of spell casting can make a human levitate or walk through walls.


Maybe you don't have enough experience with Kabbalistic magic "Kabbalah Ma'Asith"..The forces of creation can and are altered by the magician who invokes its energy and puts it to task. It's not exactly moral, or good for spiritual growth, but it is entirely possible.




Magick cannot change or influence physics, but it can influence opportunity, "luck" and other intangible forces that science has yet to label properly.


The physical world is merely the manifestation of a higher level of reality. If that level of reality can be altered, so will the material world. What do you think astrology is based upon? Astrology - the stars - correspond to Atziluth of Assiyah, they are the spiritual powers poking into the world of action, transmitting the energy from the world of Yetzirah. Hence, knowledge of the future - from a realm beyond space and time - can be attained through knowledge of the formation of the stars.

There's an interesting medieval Kabbalistic work that talks about the connection between prayer (words spoken by the mouth) and the physical processes of nature. The emotion binds one to the spiritual powers of Yetzirah. If the hearts and minds of the people are united, the spiritual powers of Yetzirah are directed and under the control of the intelligence and will. Meaning, a unified consciousness controls creation. Creation appears to be 'on its own' - fortuitous - and outside the power of man, only when man himself breaks away from the unifying consciousness of Atziluth. When man falls from the pristine awareness of Eden, the world he experiences feels like an 'another side', like a strange void.

Were sometime away from reaching back to that pristine level, and on the way man has much to do (socially, that is) , but "magick" is much much greater then controlling the sporadic appearances of chance, even though i am aware magick can have that effect.



posted on Nov, 28 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


That was amazingly both concise and extremely informative .
I didn't know Elohim meant powers and Enoch was associated with Thoth,
Although that makes perfect sense. The bringer of wisdom, writing, music etc.
If you don't already, you should teach a Mysteries/metaphysics course,
I'll sign up.
I have learned what I can comprehend about Kabbalah and western magic over the years.
Its as real as you or me haha.
But you really have a way of explaining it better than just about anyone
I've heard , so Thank you.



posted on Nov, 29 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by sealing
 


Thanks...

Yes, El, meaning 'God' also means power, since a god is anything that emanates a power. Elohim is the plural of El and so refers to the collective powers of creation, and hence, Elohim can simply mean "God". YHVH Elohim, the name which frequently appears in the bible, and is often translated as "Lord God", refers to the mode of being, the tetragrammaton (the 4 fold nature of existence) which underlies all creation, all reality, and hence, is anterior to Elohim.




If you don't already, you should teach a Mysteries/metaphysics course,


I have a lot of time to think over these things. I understand it much better now then i did back in the day. It's amazing to see your mind grow.




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