Whistle Blowers! Where Do You Go??

“Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence and thereby eventually lose all ability to defend ourselves and those we love."

The above quote is attributed to Julian Assange, but I do not know the primary origin as to whether it was interview or document. If someone knows, please post it.

“Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence and thereby eventually lose all ability to defend ourselves and those we love."

The above quote is attributed to Julian Assange, but I do not know the primary origin as to whether it was interview or document. If someone knows, please post it.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by Alethea

 

Wear gloves when you put your information together....(so there are no fingerprints)......and send the information anonymously......from another part of your city...that you don't live in...or maybe the next city or suburb to you.

and suppose it gets "lost in the mail" or trashed by a secretary because corporate rules dictate they are not required to respond to articles or letters without name or address?

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by Alethea

 

Wear gloves when you put your information together....(so there are no fingerprints)......and send the information anonymously......from another part of your city...that you don't live in...or maybe the next city or suburb to you.

and suppose it gets "lost in the mail" or trashed by a secretary because corporate rules dictate they are not required to respond to articles or letters without name or address?

You have made some very good points....please tell me what you think....you must have something in mind as the answers...since you asked the questions.

Originally posted by caladonea

You have made some very good points....please tell me what you think....you must have something in mind as the answers...since you asked the questions.

The story of Joshua and the Battle of Jericho serves as a good metaphor for this point in time.

People have marched---round and round and round.
(the walls have weakened a bit from the stomping (Score points) and their crowd controllers are starting to see the light, too. (score bonus points)

People have shouted at the wall.
(believe it or not, I have been seeing some cases where dark comes to light and justice is served. (score points)
You all just have to keep at it, flushing out the corruption! The more rats we can kick off the Jericho turrets, the less weight will be left on the bricks and the walls will be easier to tumble.)

So finally, after the marching and shouting....what really brought down the walls of Jericho?

Well, everyone picked up their whistles and blew them. EVERYBODY. BLOWING ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Blowing, and blowing till the vibrations crumbled the mortar and the wall fell to pieces.

And the rats came out heading for their underground bunkers but were caught and hog-tied before they could make it there.

Hows that for "Fractured Fairy Tales"?

Nevertheless, I think it could work.

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


That is a powerful story. Thanks for posting.
It seems that for all you did and continued to persevere, that it was futile. So my next question would be....you can't take your "evidence" to those who are involved or stand to profit from it or have the power to hurt you. So, for all you have told us in your story....there has to be someplace to take the info and evidence and a person or committee that is impartial, will investigate to verify, and yet has the power to expose and punish the corrupt and have them make restitution. So back to my original question....where do you go???

If you had it to do over today, would you handle it differently? How? What did you learn from all your efforts that would help you to find a more productive and receptive path to exposing corruption and getting justice?

Originally posted by Alethea
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

That is a powerful story. Thanks for posting.
It seems that for all you did and continued to persevere, that it was futile. So my next question would be....you can't take your "evidence" to those who are involved or stand to profit from it or have the power to hurt you. So, for all you have told us in your story....there has to be someplace to take the info and evidence and a person or committee that is impartial, will investigate to verify, and yet has the power to expose and punish the corrupt and have them make restitution. So back to my original question....where do you go???

If you had it to do over today, would you handle it differently? How? What did you learn from all your efforts that would help you to find a more productive and receptive path to exposing corruption and getting justice?

It's not a story, it's history actually. The answer to your first question is no. I cannot take it anywhere, I am bound under Superior Courts orders with a permanent injunction and can only release the information if requested under law or by court order. Since the government is not going to forcibly implicate themselves in fraud and criminal malfeasance, that idea is out the door.

When Revenue Canada came calling for a 9 year audit, I told them to get out unless I could video and audio tape the entire audit, they refused so I threw them out. I contacted my attorney, told him what happened and he told me to go ahead with the audit anyway, that by law I can release the information to them but only if they find the problem and request the information. Well, they did find it and they asked. What followed was pretty funny.

The auditor brought in an assistant at first but once the ground rules were established, he came alone. The auditor found the 30 million in capital losses, they were on my books but they only came in for the audit because I had made a smaller error, around 1.5 million on my carried forward losses (I had added the last 4 years running totals together on tax returns inadvertently). Anyway, he found the 30 mil and asked me if it was real, so I said of course, it wouldn't be there otherwise. He asked me to prove it, so I did, I gave him the court documents and the gag order. I watched him read them, he damn near s**t a cookie and every once and a while he would say something like, that's fraud, wait that's illegal, no that can't be right or what judge in his right mind would sign this lie, etc. I just laughed.

So he took copies of the information to his local director, who called me to confirm the info was correct and then he took it too the regional director. The regional director then took it to the provincial director. The provincial director took it to the head of Revenue Canada (CRA). The head of the CRA took it to the Minister of Finance and there it stopped. The message that came down was to ignore the 30 million they didn't want to talk about it just leave it, fix the 1.5 million error (which was done the first day of the audit), pay me the tax refund of around $9k, bury the information and get the hell out of dodge.

So the only chance to expose the fraud was destroyed by Revenue Canada, they buried the problem to protect at least government ministers and universities from scandal and criminal charges.

Where do you go, well, YOU DON'T, your information does, everywhere you can think of that might make an impact. Disassociate yourself from the info, as I said, NO traces back to you. Send it to the concerned parties and the government agencies as well as the newspapers and especially alternative media sites but NEVER let them know who you are. If they are going to proceed with action, they will post on whatever site you have put the info on. If you respond, again NO TRACE back to you until the story hits at least the mainstream media. You really can't trust anyone and anyone can be subverted by their superiors. If you post information, use an anonymous proxy like TOR, there are many anonymous proxies available worldwide.

Would I have done things differently if I could do them over?

I am former military and I have very good control over myself by way of psychological and interrogation training, I am well versed in military strategy and its application from both the ops room and within the theater of operations and can handle almost any weapon thrown at me. I've designed technology for the killing fields as well as to protect bases and borders of countries and I have an intimate knowledge of many recipes for party favors.

So yes, I would open the gates and unchain my own personal daemons, the rage that comes with years of frustration and suppression in an unfair system of slavery (that I normally channel into research and product development), then operate under a scorched earth policy. Not an option for everyone, but you asked...

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle


It's a spider web of corruption, I found that out first hand when I reported fraud and criminal malfeasance between the government, universities, banks, brokerage houses and the private sector. I had over 500 pages (3" thick stack) of evidence, including certified copies share certificates, cheques, account numbers, government ministers names and emails, university names and emails, audio recordings of business meetings talking about defrauding the government, a copy of the tax evasion plan by an international accounting firm, etc. The amount in question was $150,000,000 and also involved Intellectual Property theft and the releasing of grants under fraudulent conditions.

So this was some sort of money laundering deal of great scope?

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
The problem was that the scandal could have brought down the government at the time (back in the 90's). Government ministers and university deans/provosts were sharing in not only in the money, but the information that was being passed to the government that I was supplying on the criminal activity. Then the university and government investigated themselves for fraud and malfeasance, a serious conflict of interest.

If it could have "brought down the government" as you say, do you think it should have been done?

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
In the end, I took them all to court and they settled with me, BUT, I lost 30 million dollars and one of the requirements of the superior court order, was that my wife and I have permanent injunctions (gag orders to protect the guilty). These were signed under duress but I have not breached the order or tried to have it overturned, I have never named names.

I don't mean this to offend you, but if you accepted a settlement, could that not be considered a bribe or hush-money, thus making you a beneficiary of the scandal? And to go along with the gag order in accepting hush-money, does this not negate any virtue of attempting to stand up for truth and what is right?

Originally posted by xuenchen


better yet,

travel anonymously as far as possible,

preferably to another state/province/district, even another country.

How long should I plan to stay in Canada?

Originally posted by xuenchen
use cash only and keep fingerprints off the cash.

Brother, can you spare a dime?
I am not concerned about the fingerprints. There are so many on it already. But I could write "ATS" on it as a plug before I pass it on.

Originally posted by xuenchen
wipe down anything you touch anywhere.

Guess I will take my Howard Hughes bug out bag----sprays, towels, alcohol preps, etc.

Originally posted by xuenchen
Bus lines are usually anonymous.

You must be doing the Time Warp Dance. Bus lines are complete with TSA around here.

Originally posted by xuenchen
use disguises .... preferably opposite sex and age difference.

How about a unisex look? I think that would throw them off if they can "never quite know".

Originally posted by xuenchen
you would need to keep the dogs as far away and off scent as possible.

Thanx for the reminder. I will fill my socks with black pepper.

Originally posted by purplemer
look what happened to Bradely Manning... He was a whistleblower..

I have an idea for a Bradley Manning defense. Since Napolitano has ORDERED everyone to "SAY SOMETHING if you SEE SOMETHING"....could he not use this as a defense? Coming from such a high level official, would it not trump his military oath?

Originally posted by Pervius
If you are a Government Employee you keep your mouth shut.

What they have been doing with all the Federal Job cuts is whittling down who controls the money. No more Checks and Balances via bodies in jobs to watch/report. A smaller group now controls all the money.

If they find out you want to rat out one of their projects.....you'll be canned.

""""Its WHO you know""""......don't mess with the Mafia currently controlling. You can find countless stories of Government employees using the system to report Fraud/Crimes...and getting canned.

If you like getting a paycheck and living in a home....keep yer trap shut. America was created by stealing.

Good trumps bad over fifity percent of the time and you have to play the angles mathematically correct even if it's only by 1 percent that is where the "smart money gos", there is to many foe paus for your plan... first if they think they have something on you just by you knowing then your already playing "The mans game",

I'm looking at your argument from purley logical terms the ethics are what they are, and if you have good proof and whistle blow at the very least fame might interest you in a sense, it's better to have lived and did the right thing at the right time then live with the guilt, take a look at Ted Gunderson he's the perfect example of this he played all the angles right in the game of life so to the OP i'd say study Ted Gunderson and learn his craft of whistle blowing it's pretty impressive...

Originally posted by Alethea

So this was some sort of money laundering deal of great scope?

If it could have "brought down the government" as you say, do you think it should have been done?

I don't mean this to offend you, but if you accepted a settlement, could that not be considered a bribe or hush-money, thus making you a beneficiary of the scandal? And to go along with the gag order in accepting hush-money, does this not negate any virtue of attempting to stand up for truth and what is right?

Yes. call it an illegal transfer of wealth from taxpayers to scumbags.

Yes. I was trying to bring down the ministers, universities and private sector companies involved. I would like to think that most would try to do the same if they had been robbed of $30mil.

No offense taken, I erred on the side of caution and took the offer. When scumbags threaten to kill your wife and kidnap your kids, they have the power and motivation to do so, and the police are a paid of bunch of "janitors with a gun" that only want to come in as a clean up crew, it limits choices. I didn't have the funds to go underground at the time and they had deliberately waited until I was in a financially extended position to attack. Things would be different now, I would simply act rather than react.

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle

Originally posted by Alethea

So this was some sort of money laundering deal of great scope?

If it could have "brought down the government" as you say, do you think it should have been done?

I don't mean this to offend you, but if you accepted a settlement, could that not be considered a bribe or hush-money, thus making you a beneficiary of the scandal? And to go along with the gag order in accepting hush-money, does this not negate any virtue of attempting to stand up for truth and what is right?

Yes. call it an illegal transfer of wealth from taxpayers to scumbags.

Yes. I was trying to bring down the ministers, universities and private sector companies involved. I would like to think that most would try to do the same if they had been robbed of $30mil.

No offense taken, I erred on the side of caution and took the offer. When scumbags threaten to kill your wife and kidnap your kids, they have the power and motivation to do so, and the police are a paid of bunch of "janitors with a gun" that only want to come in as a clean up crew, it limits choices. I didn't have the funds to go underground at the time and they had deliberately waited until I was in a financially extended position to attack. Things would be different now, I would simply act rather than react.

Cheers - Dave

Not everyone is called to martyrdom.It is a privilege of the saints. Perhaps this is why "lone wolves" are more feared by TPTB. They cannot be blackmailed and they do not have anyone else that they need to look out for.

The scriptures (Revelation) mention that some will stand for truth and "love not their lives unto death" which means they will stand fearlessly in the face of death to speak the truth. Truth is always punished in this world.Those who speak it are called "troublemakers" and many will try to ruin their reputation in return, or bully them, or hurt those they love, or silence them....as evidenced so frequently by threads revealing dead whistleblowers.

I am sure you must have wrestled with your conscience over your choices and the decision you felt compelled to make.

The best place for a whistle blower to go is to the public.

First post all evidence (not linked to you, if possible) on youtube or a similar site, but do it anonymously if possible. Advertise the hell out of it, until it gets the media's attention.

Stay low and out of site until the people demand something be done.

At this point seek out a trusted group that will likely protect you and support you. (be cautious and get a feel for them first)

Then you may show your face as the whistleblower, but only if it is 100% needed for prosecution.

Be 100% sure you have enough evidence that will get your case recognized by the public.

Lastly "Keep your nose clean". Even if you were part of the situation, understand that you must do what you can to not make it look as if you are just trying to retaliate for something. That would discredit your case faster than anything.

Hiding in plain site is usually the best way to go at it. People will be watching and will know that if something happens to you, it will be because of the evidence you have and will quickly point fingers at whom ever the evidence is against.

Originally posted by tw0330
The best place for a whistle blower to go is to the public.

First post all evidence (not linked to you, if possible) on youtube or a similar site, but do it anonymously if possible. Advertise the hell out of it, until it gets the media's attention.

This did cross my mind as a consideration, but I do not see it as being a viable solution. If the public gets riled up then sometimes what you achieve is bringing rage and hate and not solution. I just saw a thread about a bomb being sent to a bank CEO. Two wrongs will never make a right. This is awful news and it grieves me that people act this way. I do not want to breed more hate. I want to see people become ashamed of what they have done to others and for their lies and deceit. The best possible solution is to somehow make them realize the full impact of what they have done and give them a chance to be sorry and make amends.

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by tw0330
The best place for a whistle blower to go is to the public.

First post all evidence (not linked to you, if possible) on youtube or a similar site, but do it anonymously if possible. Advertise the hell out of it, until it gets the media's attention.

This did cross my mind as a consideration, but I do not see it as being a viable solution. If the public gets riled up then sometimes what you achieve is bringing rage and hate and not solution. I just saw a thread about a bomb being sent to a bank CEO. Two wrongs will never make a right. This is awful news and it grieves me that people act this way. I do not want to breed more hate. I want to see people become ashamed of what they have done to others and for their lies and deceit. The best possible solution is to somehow make them realize the full impact of what they have done and give them a chance to be sorry and make amends.

Good Luck with that, lol

No seriously, I see your point, but when it comes down to it, if what you know could severely hurt a company or individual of power and influence, or even cause the entire company to collapse, then unless you are 100% sure of who you could go to, this company or individual would not regret what they did, only regret getting caught. And they will use what ever resources they have to see that they don't get caught.

They see it as: "it's us or them" and if not many know about this secret, then it would make it a lot easier to make you go away and no one would notice.

Originally posted by Alethea

Not everyone is called to martyrdom.It is a privilege of the saints. Perhaps this is why "lone wolves" are more feared by TPTB. They cannot be blackmailed and they do not have anyone else that they need to look out for.

The scriptures (Revelation) mention that some will stand for truth and "love not their lives unto death" which means they will stand fearlessly in the face of death to speak the truth. Truth is always punished in this world.Those who speak it are called "troublemakers" and many will try to ruin their reputation in return, or bully them, or hurt those they love, or silence them....as evidenced so frequently by threads revealing dead whistleblowers.

I am sure you must have wrestled with your conscience over your choices and the decision you felt compelled to make.

I don't care about myself, I've been shot, stabbed, poisoned, bitten by a black widow, CI put two suitcase bombs on a commercial airline we were about to board (the bombs were removed, long story) and I have died once and been paddled back. I don't fear for myself, I know what this world is, I am more concerned for the people around me, they know this and used this against me.

The most honourable thing you can do, IMO, is die to save someone else (preferably more than one), I just want to be able die well and for a beneficial purpose. But they would not have hit me, cowards go after soft targets and by moving forward I would have placed family, at least, in harm's way. If the scenario had played out in that manner, even if I went about rudely retiring everyone involved, it would not have undone what they would have previously done to family. You can't bring them back and an eye for an eye makes for a lot of blind people.

It's like my memories of the dead in Africa, what's done is done, one can't turn back time or unremember and those are just memories from the killing fields 18,000kms away (I have my own karmic debt to repay), but you still move on and try to do the right thing.

If for some reason my family were to "evaporate" and I became the "lone wolf," then it matters not what action I take and I am very good at what I do. Fortunately, I have not been put in that position. Being a whistle blower requires a great deal of forward thought as to the possible outcomes and therefore requires by extension a lot of planning if you are prepared to engage. Assume that you only have the opportunity of achieving "checkmate" once, use that wisely by applying business and military strategy to at least give yourself a reasonable chance of success.

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle

Originally posted by Alethea

Not everyone is called to martyrdom.It is a privilege of the saints. Perhaps this is why "lone wolves" are more feared by TPTB. They cannot be blackmailed and they do not have anyone else that they need to look out for.

The scriptures (Revelation) mention that some will stand for truth and "love not their lives unto death" which means they will stand fearlessly in the face of death to speak the truth. Truth is always punished in this world.Those who speak it are called "troublemakers" and many will try to ruin their reputation in return, or bully them, or hurt those they love, or silence them....as evidenced so frequently by threads revealing dead whistleblowers.

I am sure you must have wrestled with your conscience over your choices and the decision you felt compelled to make.

I don't care about myself, I've been shot, stabbed, poisoned, bitten by a black widow, CI put two suitcase bombs on a commercial airline we were about to board (the bombs were removed, long story) and I have died once and been paddled back. I don't fear for myself, I know what this world is, I am more concerned for the people around me, they know this and used this against me.

The most honourable thing you can do, IMO, is die to save someone else (preferably more than one), I just want to be able die well and for a beneficial purpose. But they would not have hit me, cowards go after soft targets and by moving forward I would have placed family, at least, in harm's way. If the scenario had played out in that manner, even if I went about rudely retiring everyone involved, it would not have undone what they would have previously done to family. You can't bring them back and an eye for an eye makes for a lot of blind people.

It's like my memories of the dead in Africa, what's done is done, one can't turn back time or unremember and those are just memories from the killing fields 18,000kms away (I have my own karmic debt to repay), but you still move on and try to do the right thing.

If for some reason my family were to "evaporate" and I became the "lone wolf," then it matters not what action I take and I am very good at what I do. Fortunately, I have not been put in that position. Being a whistle blower requires a great deal of forward thought as to the possible outcomes and therefore requires by extension a lot of planning if you are prepared to engage. Assume that you only have the opportunity of achieving "checkmate" once, use that wisely by applying business and military strategy to at least give yourself a reasonable chance of success.

Cheers - Dave

I respect your patriotism and willfulness to die to protect your fellow humans, but if you were a whistle blower and just went all out without thought or caution to "blow the lid off" of something a corporation or person might be doing would not help the cause.

I hope every person would have your philosophy to be willing to die for your fellow humans and the ability of mankind to do what is right. Hats off to you my friend.

The point is, even if your intentions are good, and you are willing to be die for what is right and just, it would be a pointless sacrifice if you were to be killed for your "doing what is right" if the situation hadn't had the chance to get out where an investigation can be launched. (sites like this, sadly will not work)

Also if your testimony is needed to prosecute, it won't do any good if you're dead.