US, Let's Get Realistic About OWS - warning graphic images

reply to post by CodeRed3D


This was the gist of my post. Please be kind enough to respond.

What I take from this is that when Americans have a legitimate concern they should be quiet and be grateful that they are not being brutalized by those who disagree with their plight.

ETA: The whole union argument is just a tactic to make it easier for the right-winger to discredit a movement they otherwise don't understand. It has been used in many threads. You will have to do better.

Originally posted by CodeRed3D

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Simply put... I don't know where to start in correcting you here. There is just so much that you've gotten wrong in this short sentence that it would probably take me all night and two full posts to make a credible attempt at it.

With such a cheap shot, you have no choice but to make an attempt at it.

Given you don't seem to understand the words you're using yourself, I rather doubt you'd do more than stare at any such attempt with a vaguely bovine expression, before trying to pretend that something is a "Straw man," sincehte internet has taught you every argument you dislike is a "straw man."

I say OWS is fabricated at the top level and will provide you the results that you don't want. I'd be more than happy to entertain your differences. Maybe I'd learn something. With over 6,000 posts you should have something to say, right?

It's hard to have a "top level" in a movement without a hierarchy. I understand that the people who hate OWS tend to drift strongly towards an authoritarian mindset and can't really conceive of a movement NOT being a tiered entity with a clear chain of command... but that's not really how this is working, no matter the limitations on your (otherwise very active) imagination.

I'm just not feeling your thread dude.

It seems unnecessarily vile and misleading.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
It's hard to have a "top level" in a movement without a hierarchy. I understand that the people who hate OWS tend to drift strongly towards an authoritarian mindset and can't really conceive of a movement NOT being a tiered entity with a clear chain of command... but that's not really how this is working, no matter the limitations on your (otherwise very active) imagination.

Don't get me wrong, I do sympathize with those who feel genuinely blighted by their circumstances. Their attachment to OWS is human nature. Let's set aside the insults for a moment and gather the facts.

In my estimation the fact that OWS was a planned event from months in advance is a rather dangerous fact to overlook. - source So it wasn't human nature that brought about OWS or the message with it. I really feel sorry for those who are genuinely connected to the ideal, but I do feel that many of these people have been grossly groomed for the wrong purpose.

Originally posted by CodeRed3D
Don't get me wrong, I do sympathize with those who feel genuinely blighted by their circumstances. Their attachment to OWS is human nature. Let's set aside the insults for a moment and gather the facts.

Funny that you say this and follow up with nothing but fact-free opinion.

In my estimation the fact that OWS was a planned event from months in advance is a rather dangerous fact to overlook. - source

Well, first off, your link provides no such information. But yes, the idea of a symbolic protest on Wall Street, set for September 17, was concocted on Adbusters in July. However, we've kind of moved pretty far from a one-day symbolic protest at one place, don't you think? We're looking at the idea being picked up and carried all over the place.

Now my question is, why do you think it's "dangerous?" Do you believe that everything should be absolute last moment, drop of the hat spontaneous? Of course not. Protest on any scale requires getting people out there to protest. This requires foreknowledge on their part.

Even if the whole idea was imagined for some nefarious purposes by some dastardly ne'er do-wells (and their unions, no doubt, can't forget the terrible, terrible, eeeeevil unions) then the joke's on them... 'cause it's basically been yanked out of their paw and turned into common property that they have no say over.

I really feel sorry for those who are genuinely connected to the ideal, but I do feel that many of these people have been grossly groomed for the wrong purpose.

Feelings are not facts. Try again.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by ILikeStars

One branch of the military alone gets more funding than all the schools in America. The Navy.

It’s not the governments roll to provide education. The government should get its crooked, indoctrinating paws out of education immediately.

It IS the Governments responsibility to defend the country.

I’ll let you figure out why the money is spent the way it’s spent.

Yes, thank you! A hundred thank yous!

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Well, first off, your link provides no such information. But yes, the idea of a symbolic protest on Wall Street, set for September 17, was concocted on Adbusters in July. However, we've kind of moved pretty far from a one-day symbolic protest at one place, don't you think? We're looking at the idea being picked up and carried all over the place.

Now my question is, why do you think it's "dangerous?" Do you believe that everything should be absolute last moment, drop of the hat spontaneous? Of course not. Protest on any scale requires getting people out there to protest. This requires foreknowledge on their part.

A quote from the link states, "Several of the demonstrations coincided with an event planned months earlier by a coalition of unions and liberal groups, including Moveon.org and the Service Employees International Union, in which out-of-work people walked over bridges in several cities to protest high unemployment.

Mounted police follow Occupy DC demonstrators as they march in Washington, D.C., November 17, 2011. The street demonstrations also marked two months since the Occupy movement sprang to life in New York on Sept. 17. They were planned well before police raided a number of encampments in U.S. cities over the past few days, but were seen by some activists as a way to demonstrate their resolve in the wake of the crackdown."

So yes the link does "provide the information". What needs to be done is for corporate interests to be completely removed from government. No amount of OWS will do that. The movement is dangerous because too many people are focusing on what they don't want. Instead they are walking right into custody on their own volition. When the jails fill up, believe me, there is plenty of other space to relocate.

Instead of occupying Wall Street and harassing the cops and shop owners, it might be more prudent to occupy the lobbyists who are corrupting your local officials. Two cops were shoved in front of moving vehicles during the occupy Portland. And I acknowledge there's been abuse against civilians too.

No matter who you are, we all have families to go home to. We aren't at war with each other.

Originally posted by CodeRed3D
So yes the link does "provide the information".

Yup. My fault, I'd missed it. However, there's a differnece between "coincided with" and "planned by," don't you think? Further, this leaves you in the position of having to explain why it's a "bad thing" in either case.

What needs to be done is for corporate interests to be completely removed from government. No amount of OWS will do that.

It has a better chance than sitting on your thumb and whining about OWS will. You have chosen... poorly.

The movement is dangerous because too many people are focusing on what they don't want.

...You're going ot have to explain this one as well. Maybe it makes sense in your head, but I'm not in there, so you kinda lost me.

Instead they are walking right into custody on their own volition. When the jails fill up, believe me, there is plenty of other space to relocate.

Yep. Let's see how many of us they can afford to keep penned up. Prisoners are expensive. Trials are expensive. Riot police are expensive. There's no way to stretch yourself further than people who literally have nothing to lose. so yeah. Let 'em lock us all up. It'd be good for a laugh.

Instead of occupying Wall Street and harassing the cops

Oh yes, those poor, inoffensive cops, just on patrol, minding their own business... occasionally pegging marines in the head with tear gas canisters, hosing random people with chemical weapons, when all of a sudden, GASP! protestors yelling "shame!" Won't someone think of hte poor, poor cops...

and shop owners, it might be more prudent to occupy the lobbyists who are corrupting your local officials.

...Been on that one for two months or so.

Originally posted by AllUrChips
I love the first picture. That screaming idiot looking occupier who is AGAINST the corporations had a STARBUCKS in his hand

:lol 5 dollars for 16oz. of mostly water! Now whos laughing?

edit on 24-11-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)

Not to mention his pricey looking furry jacket.

edit on 24-11-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)

Not worry. Starbucks is very socially conscious these days, what with supporting things like La Raza and ethical water which doesn't hurt any poor people in sweat shops.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Oh yes, those poor, inoffensive cops, just on patrol, minding their own business... occasionally pegging marines in the head with tear gas canisters, hosing random people with chemical weapons, when all of a sudden, GASP! protestors yelling "shame!" Won't someone think of hte poor, poor cops...

Believe me, you frighten me more than the cops do. I wish you the best.

Originally posted by CodeRed3D
I'm sorry, but if this was a conversation about equal rights, then the Unions wouldn't have touched OWS with a ten foot pole. I think you're in the wrong thread.

edit on 25-11-2011 by CodeRed3D because: (no reason given)

You do realise Unions were integral to the civil rights movement, don't you?

Originally posted by ILikeStars
For every $1 in federal taxes the state of Illinois pays into the federal goverment the residents of Illinois sees 25 cents of federal assistance.

Actually, it is .77. New Jersey is first (or last in my eyes) in fewest amount returned.

America is not Africa.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Although your link and stats referenced are from 2004, I may have read & heard the stats I previously posted wrong. Maybe I had it flipped flopped, then, .. I'm thinking.

Illinois recieves about 75 cents per every dollar paid in federal taxes. That sounds better, but still: People from Illinois have 25% of their tax dollars spent somewhere else on other people.