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How can OWS possibly support open borders / illegal immigration?

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posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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Yes, yes, everyone is different and not everyone in OWS supports the dream act, amnisty for illegals, or open borders.

Yet the majority seem to. At the very least, I have yet to see ANY OWS people openly and actively protesting against the Dream Act and illegal immigration.

I personally don't see how open borders and a seemingly endless influx of illegals is going to do anything but strip more jobs from Americans. Same with all forms of outsourcing/offshoring.

I would like to hear, with as many specifics as possible, from any OWSers regarding their position on illegals.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 

I don't see a problem with illegals to be honest. I think it should be harder for them to gain citizenship.
Other than that leave them alone.
As far as OWS, Wall Street has nothing to do with the borders. IMO



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:23 PM
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I didn't know they did, where did you see this?
edit on 23-11-2011 by satron because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:31 PM
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I think the average person involved in the Occupy movement is a wee-bit more concerned with stopping the rear-end-raping going on to us and our economy. Thats the issue 1st and foremost before we worry about other lesser things.

Our futures and our childrens futures are a little bit more important than that right now.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by satron
I didn't know they did, where did you see this?


Immigrants Join Protest as Occupy Wall Street Movement Grows


"...They are afraid of getting arrested if they’re undocumented,” he said. “We have to explain that the park is safe.”


...Castaño sees signs of growing involvement. “Now I hear Latin music and there’s the information desk in Spanish and there’s also the Occupy Wall Street Journal in Spanish,” he noted....

...Since then, Spanish general assemblies (asambleas generales) have been held from 5-7 p.m. every Sunday....

...Mattos sums up by emphasizing the connection of immigrant issues to the Occupy Wall Street protests. She sees immigrants as making up a strong contingent of the “99%.”

“Immigrants have been victims of capitalism. We are economic refugees and we have to go through the broken American system and suffer the consequences. We don’t want to accept that,” Mattos said.






edit on 11/23/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
I think the average person involved in the Occupy movement is a wee-bit more concerned with stopping the rear-end-raping going on to us and our economy. Thats the issue 1st and foremost before we worry about other lesser things.

Our futures and our childrens futures are a little bit more important than that right now.


More illegals mean more competition for scarce jobs and downward pressure on wages. Protected borders protect jobs.

Outsourcing is part of the econonmic "rear end raping" as you call it. So is a flood of illegal immigrants willing to do your job for slave labor wages. Just ask any formerly-employed plumber, carpenter, or electrician in California, Texas, or the Southwest.

Why isn't OWS more concerned about this side of things?
edit on 11/23/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


Immigration has little to do with our current economic status.
Government spending hurts us, not immigrants.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by GmoS719
 


Many many unemployed blue-collar workers in the Southwest would disagree strongly.

It used to be possible for millions of Americans to earn a living wage doing manual labor of all sorts.

How can an American compete with an illegal willing to work for sub-minimum-wage?

Or do you think all Americans should see their living standards decline to the level of Mexico because "that's fair competition?"

edit on 11/23/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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While I agree that illegal immigration needs to be curtailed, and programs like the Dream Act need to take the backseat to programs that benefit actual Americans, I don't see how the OWS can be seen as supporting open borders/ illegal immigration. You did provide a article, but it seem like it's pretty isolated. I did an internet search and couldn't see anything besides the article you posted about the OB/II question. I even went to OWS's web forum and I couldn't find anything in the past 4 days that mentioned anything about OB/II. Some OWSer support it, no doubt, but it's not a top of the list issue.
edit on 24-11-2011 by satron because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:01 AM
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I would like to know how we would expect to expel these illegal immigrants! Round them up and deport them?

Not gonna happen!

We can talk all the game we want to, but when it comes to action I find it almost impossible to achieve!

By the way, there are man generations of illegal immigrants living in the US, Mexican, Irish, Asian and European living in the US. For the sake of consistency, will all white people be deported as well so we can give the land back to the native Indians?

If we are going to do this, let's be honest.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by sheepslayer247
I would like to know how we would expect to expel these illegal immigrants! Round them up and deport them?

Not gonna happen!

We can talk all the game we want to, but when it comes to action I find it almost impossible to achieve!

By the way, there are man generations of illegal immigrants living in the US, Mexican, Irish, Asian and European living in the US. For the sake of consistency, will all white people be deported as well so we can give the land back to the native Indians?

If we are going to do this, let's be honest.


1) What makes you think its impossible? Even if we can't "round them all up," we can round up a fair percent. And yes, they should be sent back to wherever they came from. That's why we have a NATION with BORDERS. Borders connote an "inside" and an "outside." We are inside, they are outside. For a reason. Every illegal immigrant is an insult to all those who have complied with the rules and come here LEGALLY.

2) Things were different in the old days. We can no longer afford open borders, job-wise. Race has zero to do with it, please don't set up that tired old strawman. It's all about jobs and what the economy can support.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


If you want jobs....talk to the business' that export them for cheap labor!

Immigrants, en mass, will never be deported. Never have, never will!

Race may have nothing to do with it, but if we are to be ideologically consistent then we must realize that America was founded on illegal immigration!
edit on 24-11-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by silent thunder
 


If you want jobs....talk to the business' that export them for cheap labor!

Immigrants, en mass, will never be deported. Never have, never will!

Race may have nothing to do with it, but if we are to be ideologically consistent then we must realize that America was founded on illegal immigration!
edit on 24-11-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)


I would like to "talk to the businesses that export them for cheap labor" as well. You are correct, that is an important issue.

So is staunching the flow of illegals who take jobs away from low-income Americans.

"Ideological consistency" is utterly meaningless to me. Jobs and the ability to earn a living wage are what I am concerned with. In fact I would go so far as to argue that an excessive preoocupation on ideology (whether right or left) at the expense of real-world beneifts is one one mankind's most destructive habits down through the ages. Ideology should bend to the needs of reality, not the other way around. Call me a practitioner of Realpolitk.

And even if I accepted that "ideological consistancy" was meaningful on some level, your argument makes no sense. It is along the lines of "We didn't need an unbrella when it was sunny so why do you need one when it rains?" Times change.
edit on 11/24/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


If we toss out ideological consistency, how do you propose we deport all of these people? How would we pull off the logistics of such a venture without spending more money that it's worth?

ETA: Immigration is currently way down. The gold mine that is the US is not as attractive as it once was since we are in economic peril!
edit on 24-11-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


Sorry, I'm not seeing the connection between ideology and taking practical steps to eradicate a problem in this case.

It's real simple. Enforce the laws that are already on the books. The laws already in place say these people are ILLEGAL.

Do you not support rule of law?



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:32 AM
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ETA: Immigration is currently way down.


Good. Its a start.

And as for the money aspect, how about we cut spending for useless military adventures abroad and put some of the savings into the National Guard? Have them patrol the borders and stop the invasion.

It's what they are tasked with, originally.
edit on 11/24/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by silent thunder
Yes, yes, everyone is different and not everyone in OWS supports the dream act, amnisty for illegals, or open borders.

Yet the majority seem to. At the very least, I have yet to see ANY OWS people openly and actively protesting against the Dream Act and illegal immigration.

I personally don't see how open borders and a seemingly endless influx of illegals is going to do anything but strip more jobs from Americans. Same with all forms of outsourcing/offshoring.

I would like to hear, with as many specifics as possible, from any OWSers regarding their position on illegals.


I don't like the Dream Act myself because it is not the time to enact something like that IMO.
I do think that America would be better off if all Americans received the education that business
deems as useful.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by silent thunder
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


Sorry, I'm not seeing the connection between ideology and taking practical steps to eradicate a problem in this case.

It's real simple. Enforce the laws that are already on the books. The laws already in place say these people are ILLEGAL.

Do you not support rule of law?


The problem is enforcing those laws without becoming fairly fascist, empowering the government
to enforce the laws is the catch 22.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


Uhhh.....that has nothing to do with the protests. Illegal immigrants didn't hijack our government and crash the economy.



posted on Nov, 24 2011 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by silent thunder
 


Uhhh.....that has nothing to do with the protests. Illegal immigrants didn't hijack our government and crash the economy.


In the end that is how I feel about OWS... The fact is TBTB will try to attach these hot-button
issues to create a stronger form of opposition to a movement that threatens their overt and
destructive march for total control over Americas political and private systems.
edit on 24-11-2011 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



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