the media cannot understand organic leaderless democracy

Originally posted by XPLodER
new stratagy
as soon as the finacial investigations are complete petition state govs with the information gathered on insider trading

I understand that you are from New Zealand -- which makes me wonder your complete stake in this! Why are you driving so hard -- outside the obvious implications of American politics?

reply to post by mutatismutandis


i love it, policy can be displayed online and reveiwed BEFORE passage,

every one can vote on what should be in bills and vote on their passage,

even if not in a legally binding way if everyone voted for something and it was struck down it would look very bad for the law makers

xploder

reply to post by ownbestenemy

I understand that you are from New Zealand -- which makes me wonder your complete stake in this! Why are you driving so hard -- outside the obvious implications of American politics?

weather we like it or not the interconnected finacial arrangements between america and new zealand ensure that if america was to contine on its path our pension savings and acident compensation funds would suffer further loss.

also new zealand has no right to redress such as is possable under your form of govenment,
i personally tried to get the word out about MERS Morgage Electronic Registy Service and the fake documents used to foreclose on millions of americans.

i failed to help enough people to stop the market devaluation of the housing prices in the USA and that filtered down and people in my country were wipped out, myself included.

how can the actions of wall street and a corrupt congress in the states wipe us out?

this is why i have passion, peoples lives are at stake and the bankers walk away with huge bonuses for destroying your #ry and in doing so have almost wiped our #ries life savings.

xploder

Originally posted by Battleline
reply to post by XPLodER

 

All in all very good info, thank you.

The insider corruption is comeing out but the bootlicking MSM is ignoreing it.I will be watching to see if the OWS movement can do something more then yell for revolution,a futile gesture for anything other then cannon fodder.

Good luck with your............."wham".

edit on 24-11-2011 by Battleline because: (no reason given)

its OWS wham and ill pass on the good luck when i am able too
lets all hope for a wham that gets everybody outraged

xploder

Originally posted by kellerphoenix
reply to post by XPLodER

 

What scares me more than WWIII, an asteroid impact, a supervolcano or anything else is the idea of this movement. There needs to be structure in any leadership. There need to be laws, rules, control without it there is only anarchy.

edit on 23-11-2011 by kellerphoenix because: (no reason given)

Nope,

only with laws, rules, and control COMES anarchy.

We have it all wrong.

SO wrong.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Social psychology and sociology have repeatedly demonstrated . . .

in study and experiment after experiment as well as study of real groups as they function, evolve and exist . . . that

THERE IS !NO! SUCH THING AS A LEADERLESS GROUP.

It can be the case that an agreed upon formula can be chosen for rotating leaders. However, even in such a case . . . sooner or later charismatic, powerful, influential etc. leaders rise to the top and are given the lion's share of respect and power.

It may well be that a structure and set of rules could be devised that would emphasize humility and selflessness. However, enforcing it and insuring that leaders didn't consolodate and embellish their personal fifedoms . . . could be a real challenge.

were in the internet generation,
we could have all our "representitives" trades in public online in real time,
a person could build an app for that, shows what the rep is buying and selling in real time and what bills he is involved in

make it really hard for them to play the system if real time earnings are recorded and freely available

xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER

so if 2/3 of the occupy groups could petition their legislators the this could be fixed real fast

thank you for the intel

new stratagy
as soon as the finacial investigations are complete petition state govs with the information gathered on insider trading

constitutional amendment called anti criminal subversion of finance and govenmnet act

lol

thanks

xploder

Ummm no. OWS doesn't have a chance or clue of how to accomplish this. There's never been another Constitutional Convention called by the States, it would be a very hard thing to do.

My point it that you can't go after the top ie Washington directly and expect them to change their spots. It will have to be a ground up movement, local counties and State Legislatures. Change will have to come from the States if there is to be meaningful reform.

reply to post by pavil


can you please explain the process from your state as the example,
is there a referendum to call for an amendment?

thanks in advance

xploder

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by jacklondonmiller

 

Of course, you think this because of my fierce defense of unalienable rights, and you know enough of the law to know that when rights are respected as much as I show to them, it is inevitable that groups are going to be extended this same respect.

I had to look up on the cutting of the articles so I might mess it up#

Why is this an of course here? These groups are extended more rights then the individual which is

the incentive to do business/which is the exchange for the charter and more regulation.

These groups were not conceived of to circumvent political systems and take over governments

which is what some firms strive for. Putting it as groups extended the same respect is the gross part/

just like a

lawyer who lobbied the courts for the personhood all is candy canes in the world. You ignore

there are many business forms defined by law and constrained by law and granted

extra consideration as rights. From the Sole proprietorship/S corp/C corp/Partnership/General

Partnership/Limited partnership. (Extended the same respect) is white washing what the courts and

government and lawyers and businesses have done. You don't seem to have enough legal

understanding to know that companies get consideration this is not extended to you.

So what it is the point of talking to you here? You act a shameless defender of the big business

climate which has taken its toll against the American economy and the small business man.

Business can be regulated at many levels and business gets privileges in exchange.

If it is a right, and particularly a right Congress has been expressly forbidden from legislating against.

The right to buy politicians? Or place faulty oil rigs in the Gulf that destroy the livelihoods

of hundreds of thousands of the individuals? Or the banking collapse which was designed by

banks extending their own constrains with money and the same corruption you poor syrup on.

This is why you think I am "bigger on corporations" because you must have a good idea how I view the Citizens United ruling, and of course, I view that ruling as a gigantic win for the First Amendment.

It is the attitude that fuels the words that create the suspicion. Let me guess the big money needs

more breaks in the world I am a psychic!

You keep yammering on and on and on, ad nauseum about the distinction of "person"

You keep yammering about law and you don't even understand simple legal principles. Corporations

us to use the person/not person defense to defraud and cheat all the time, a big legal consideration

for someone who respects ethics

this last time making the distinction that corporations get the full force of the law, implicitly stating that living breathing individuals do not.

You have no clue you are liable for a bad sandwich you sell, you can lose you personal property

to pay off a suit. An agent of LLC would be protected by the law and the confiscation of

the property due to the special consideration of the agency organization.

A corporation can take a lot more risk than you and have all involved feel safe from losing

it all based on a mistake. This is how the courts see it and how it works, the laws provide

frame work. The point of forming a group is to shed some vulnerability in being an individual

with limited resource and property. But you and lawyer and corporatist and politicians twist

it all around to conceal the simple truth of the matter, you go through a big bunch of trouble

to create this framework to make sure to reach the conclusion that makes you happy.

Can you explain the top two reasons why people incorporate to create business structures?

In reality, the system is only rigged against the individual as long as they agree to play by the rules of that system.

I assume you do not have 4 lobbyists in DC working to advance your causes with the politicians.

Did you send them 45,000 dollars to look out for your interests day in and day out? this is where

you combined ignorance and senselessness for the first time. Every bomb

that drops in the world speaks to the rigging you say isn't there. It is no wonder you dislike OWS

you have your hands over your eyes and you live in a fake legal system you have created on

your own.

assuming that Ninth Amendment is a tool for corporatism.

No I assume people who twist the law to make the world even more advantages for corporations

are tools for corporatism so you know.

then that alone should reveal for the legal fraud you are.

We will see who is the fraud is after you answer the two questions so hope you be enjoying

your google search you are going on right now. Or you just read several of my posts that you ignore

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
I did not fail to see anything. We are discussing a particular case -- in which in a footnote a judge provided dicta pertaining to that particular case. While such dicta can be referenced and utilized later on in further cases -- there is no precedents to follow in regards to such dicta.

The problem is, dicta pertaining to the what of a ruling is used as precedence in function everyday.

It is a practice and it is what advance corporate personhood following the SoPac case. It is exactly

why the supreme court failed very badly in their judgement, they looked at the law but ignored the

function and implication of the ruling. Even then the Constitution allows for states to levy taxation

and assessment. I was also a blow against the real republican ideas they talk about of republics

and things. You and your friend ignore that even though it is another component of the ruling, more

corporate power and federal power in one shot. I figure out what the two of you do mentally, you have

the ideas you believe and then you try to assemble the legal principles around the ideas you like.

This is why you both have big opinions and miss big components of legal understanding.

While I know I can fall into fallacious traps and since I am human will never be free of performing a fallacious argument -- you sir, have taken the cake. Your presumptuous attitude and appeal to authority (in which you do so quite passive-aggressively) cannot be allowed to go unchecked if we are to have a serious discussion and debate.

I appeal to law and ethics and I reject using law to circumvent the political system which belongs

to all people. You do not see that it starts with the legal system which binds the business world

the produces the money to fund it all. Ethics can be exterminated from the law which is what

lawyers/politicians/judges and corporatists do with slow and steady pressure.

You are correct, but under false presumption, that I am not "pre-law"; though I am a student of Law and have been studying it and learning for a little of time now. But you wish to carry this air of smugness by continually pointing out that I am not pre-law or wish to paint my opinion and statements as matters of facts.

So why are you and your friend arguing against principles you have not studied? You go beyond

not understanding to saying I am bad for understanding and studying them.