The light of the Gentiles mentioned in Isaiah 42

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Read the commentary associated with those verses.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Jesus, the Word of God is doing the talking in Isaiah and he is definately not talking about Mohammed. Now I will show the testimony that Jesus gave regarding the true servant, John the Baptist, who is the forerunner of the anointed (Messiah).

1. Jesus said that John is more than just a prophet.
2. Jesus testified that John is a light.

Fine.
Then please tell me...

a) Why does the chapter begin referring to a "servant". Is your position that Jesus was a "servant of God" and not "son of God"???
b) Why the mention of Kedar?
c) Who else, other than Mohammad influenced the people of Kedar? (Im saying that because its there in that chapter.)
d) As far as I know, there is no record of a biblical prophet ever having preached to the people of Kedar. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

IMHO, this servant was none other than Mohammad.
Reading the whole thing in context....I cant think of anybody else who was declared as a servant, who God said He upholds and declares as His "elect"....

Jesus said he was that very Servant of the Lord, by reading from those verses in the synagogue and then saying he was fulfilling those prophecies.
Paul says Jesus came as a servant, in Philippians 2.

reply to post by jmdewey60




Paul said he was a servant of God, true. Even Jesus comes across as a servant of God if one were to read the New Testament without any pre-concieved ideas of "trinity" and such.
And thats only the beginning of the dilemma for christians who hold that Jesus is part of the trinity, and thereby God. Because servant CANNOT be the same as master.... just as "son" CANNOT be the Father.

Jesus said he was that very Servant of the Lord, by reading from those verses in the synagogue and then saying he was fulfilling those prophecies.

Jesus quoted Isaiah. Yes.
But which parts exactly? Do those bits of Isaiah that he quoted match the verse the OP refers to?

Lets have a look....

Jesus read from Isaiah in Luke 4:18-19.... which corresponds to Isaiah 58:6 and 61:1-2

and then
Matthew 4:15-16
Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali, the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles- the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.
which corresponds to Isaiah 9:1-7, where mention is made of Napthali and Zebulon...but NOT Kedar and the wilderness. which makes Isaiah 42 unique to Mohammad.

Now Isaiah 42 differs in the sense that it specifically addresses things that Jesus CANNOT be connected with (going by the words of the bible)

1) Isaiah 42 involves, for some reason, the "wilderness" and the lands of Kedar... terms associated with Ishmael in the bible. Jesus, who read from Isaiah never read out Isaiah 42
2) Isaiah 42 has this curious verse involving "graven images: (idolatry)... a practise in the lands of Kedar and the wilderness.... which ONLY Mohammad put an end to. Jesus, did not directly address "graven" images in the lands he was preaching in, let alone bring an end to it.

My guess is that Isaiah foretells the coming of not one, but two major players in the Abrahamic faiths.
And the reason that Jesus did not quote Isaiah 42, is because he was NOT the servant who influenced the people of Kedar AND ended idolatry.

The part in Isaiah about the light shown to people living in darkness is a motif that addresses both Jesus and Mohammad.

Furthermore, the fact that ONE man established monotheism centered around the worshop of the God of Abraham in a land given in to idolatry should be enough to convince anyone that Islams establishment IS an act of God.

The religions of Judaism and Christianity needed the entire line-up of Old Testament prophets and Jesus to be established among gentiles. Whereas, Islam took just ONE prophet. He came out of nowhere and emerged victorious over a land given in to idolatry.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n
Here's Mathew in chapter 12 being very explicit about Jesus fulfilling Isaiah 42:

15But Jesus having known, withdrew from there. And large crowds followed Him, and He healed them all! 16And He warned them that they should not make Him known, 17in order that the [word] having been spoken through Isaiah the prophet should be fulfilled, saying: 18Look! My servant whom I chose; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased. I will put My Spirit upon Him, and He will proclaim judgment to the nations. 19He will not quarrel nor cry out, nor will anyone hear His voice in the open streets. 20He will not break a bruised reed, and He will not extinguish a smoldering wick, until He sends out justice to victory [fig., causes justice to triumph]. 21And nations will hope [or, place their trust] in His name. [Isaiah 42:1-4; first three verses, Heb., last verse, LXX]

Analytical-Literal Translation of the New Testament: Third Edition

(the bracketed information is part of the translation by Gary F. Zeolla)

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

He came out of nowhere and emerged victorious over a land given in to idolatry.

According to their own mythology and there is no way to know if it was true or not since anyone not agreeing with that version would have been automatically killed as being an infidel.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

2) Isaiah 42 has this curious verse involving "graven images: (idolatry)... a practise in the lands of Kedar and the wilderness.... which ONLY Mohammad put an end to. Jesus, did not directly address "graven" images in the lands he was preaching in, let alone bring an end to it.

Paul in Galatians explains that after his conversion he went off and met with certain followers of Jesus in Arabia and spend a very long time there, so the idea that Arabia was devoid of the knowledge of God and Jesus can not be accurate. Mohammad had dealings with Christians from the beginning of his ministry as a prophet or whatever.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

 

Jesus, the Word of God is doing the talking in Isaiah and he is definately not talking about Mohammed. Now I will show the testimony that Jesus gave regarding the true servant, John the Baptist, who is the forerunner of the anointed (Messiah).

1. Jesus said that John is more than just a prophet.
2. Jesus testified that John is a light.

Fine.
Then please tell me...

a) Why does the chapter begin referring to a "servant". Is your position that Jesus was a "servant of God" and not "son of God"???
b) Why the mention of Kedar?
c) Who else, other than Mohammad influenced the people of Kedar? (Im saying that because its there in that chapter.)
d) As far as I know, there is no record of a biblical prophet ever having preached to the people of Kedar. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

edit on 23-11-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

a) No. My position is that Jesus is the Son of God. Only the Son of God can be born inside us. John the Baptist is Jesus' servant. Jesus existed before Abraham inside the major and minor prophets, and Kings such as David. Jesus is the one doing the talking through the entire book of Isaiah and the servant he points to is John the Baptist.

b) Kedar isn't the only placed mentioned, so is Sela which most believe is Petra (Jordan). He wants Kedar to rejoice and Sela to sing for Joy. Now - if you can tie Kedar to Petra, as in towns close to one another - this would be close to where Jesus returns at his second coming. The prophecy is that when his feet touch the Mount of Olives, a terrible earthquake is going to occur and split the land from east to west creating a valley as a means of escape for the people. Zechariah talks about all of this in depth.

c and d) Ever heard of a group called the Mandaens? They are a small group in Southern Iraq who revere John the Baptist, not Jesus nor Mohammed. Iraq is quite aways from where John the Baptist and Jesus' ministries took place. More than likely some of Ishmaels decendants were closer to areas like the Dead Sea, Jordan etc and then were dispersed after Rome decided to act like idiots.

God loves Ishmael and all his people and proved it when he didn't let Hagar die in the desert. Just different promises were made to different people and everyone thinks they are right. God will just have to return to put his house back in order. That's not doom and gloom or depression - that is hope.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

He came out of nowhere and emerged victorious over a land given in to idolatry.

According to their own mythology and there is no way to know if it was true or not since anyone not agreeing with that version would have been automatically killed as being an infidel.

Continuing the same line of thought, everything we know about Jesus is also "according to the mythology" of those who wrote about him.

Here's Mathew in chapter 12 being very explicit about Jesus fulfilling Isaiah 42:

Isaiah 42 is only referred to by the author of Matthew, after the record of Jesus warning those he healed not to tell anyone. Jesus himself did not read out the words of Isaiah 42, like how he read out Isaiah 58 from the scroll in the synagogue, as recorded in Luke.

Note that the author of Matthew refers to the prophecy concerning the lands of Zebulun and Napthali in chapter 4....because it matched the part about Jesus moving to those same lands. So fair enough.
However, he stops short of quoting the part about Kedar and the wilderness because he knows fully well that Jesus had nothing to do with those lands.
See what he did there?

reply to post by jmdewey60

Paul in Galatians explains that after his conversion he went off and met with certain followers of Jesus in Arabia and spend a very long time there, so the idea that Arabia was devoid of the knowledge of God and Jesus can not be accurate. Mohammad had dealings with Christians from the beginning of his ministry as a prophet or whatever.

I never claimed that Arabia was devoid of the knowledge of God and Jesus.
Yes, Paul was in Arabia... and met some followers of Jesus.
But its obvious that Christianity as a religion, had little impact on Arabs. It merely only co-existed with the idolatry prevalent there. That was no fulfillment of darkness turning into light.

It was only after the arrival of Mohammad that Arabia was rid completely of graven images... and knowledge of the God of Abraham and the messiah was established throughout the land. Isaiah 42 was fulfilled through Mohammad.
After the arrival of Mohammad, Kedar and the wilderness lifted their voices. Darkness turned into light. Those who made gods out of graven images were turned back in utter shame.