The mystery of the Identites of the seven stars and the seven churches of Revelation

The seven stars are the messengers appointed to each church in order ranging from the first century church to our current times.

The Churches and their messengers are in the following order.

1st seal: Paul C.E. 33-70 (Church of Ephesus)
2cd seal: John C.E. 70-313 (Church of Smyrna)
3rd seal: Arius C.E. 313-1160 (Church of Pergamos)
4th seal: Peter Waldo C.E. 1160-1378 (Church of Thyatira)
5th seal: John Wycliff C.E. 1378-1518 (Church of Sardis)
6th seal: Martin Luther C.E. 1518-1874 (Church of Philadelphia)
7th Seal: Charles Taze Russell C.E. 1874-1878 to current times (Church of Laodicea)

I wonder where the 3rd temple fits into this? According to Revelation the 3rd temple is supposed to come into play during the 5th seal, perhaps the 3rd temple is metaphorical?

Im a little apprehensive to answer your post because of your username! Dont want to be put on some list lol. On topic this is an intresting subject and im no expert, but where does SIRIUS fit into all this? Isnt that supposed to be an intregal part of mankind or something?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

The seven stars are the messengers appointed to each church in order ranging from the first century church to our current times.

The Churches and their messengers are in the following order.

1st seal: Paul C.E. 33-70 (Church of Ephesus)
2cd seal: John C.E. 70-313 (Church of Smyrna)
3rd seal: Arius C.E. 313-1160 (Church of Pergamos)
4th seal: Peter Waldo C.E. 1160-1378 (Church of Thyatira)
5th seal: John Wycliff C.E. 1378-1518 (Church of Sardis)
6th seal: Martin Luther C.E. 1518-1874 (Church of Philadelphia)
7th Seal: Charles Taze Russell C.E. 1874-1878 to current times (Church of Laodicea)

I wonder where the 3rd temple fits into this? According to Revelation the 3rd temple is supposed to come into play during the 5th seal, perhaps the 3rd temple is metaphorical?

Taze was a mason. His grave is a pyramid with an all seeing eye. He was the founder of the Latter day Saints. We can judge him for this and see conspiracy, or we can listen to his own words. I find these videos interesting. I am listening now. As for your list, I can only say its possible. Luther definitely represents the true church. The reformation rightly divided the word and showed the true colors of the Catholic Church and Rome.

The Book of Revelation starts with Christ dictating letters to the 7 churches in Asia Minor. ASIA MINOR. These are churches that John was familiar with not some future churches. The future events in Revelation start after the letters. Rev. 4:1 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven:and the first voice which i heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

I am not seeing a relationship between the seals and the churches as you have written in your timeline there, the candlesticks are the churches, the stars are the angels of those churches, or messengers or pastors or leaders according to your translation but the seals are judgments. 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls. 21 judgments or 7 repeated 3 times according to your school of thought but these are in no way related to the churches mentioned in the first 3 chapters.

These churches were in existence when John wrote the letters, there is no mystery as to which churches the 7 candlesticks refer to, as to the stars well not much was written ABOUT the churches at the time, quite a bit written TO them but not about them so we don't know who the stars refer to, but obviously John did.

The key to Bible prophecy is to realize where the prophecy begins. In Revelation this is not until chapter 4.

As for the 3rd temple. The 5th seal mentions nothing of the temple.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I wonder, if Russel wasn't one of the messengers of that time period i wonder who was? Usually the messengers stuck out like a sore thumb for being persecuted or martyred, or for how adamant they were about keeping the word clean of satan's taint.

I just recently made the connection withthe Roman Catholic Church calling Mary the Queen of Heaven with pagan goddesses called that same title. I'd heard them call Mary that for years but never made the connection or even paid it any mind. i was dating a catholic woman once who was praying to Mary and called her the queen of heaven and it made me feel a little odd and uncomfortable because Mary was not a goddess just an apostle.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Its kinda ironic. The Holy Roman Catholic Church exterminated the knights templar under the guise that they were goddess worshipping when they were doing the same thing...

Man talk about hypocrisy.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I wonder, if Russel wasn't one of the messengers of that time period i wonder who was? Usually the messengers stuck out like a sore thumb for being persecuted or martyred, or for how adamant they were about keeping the word clean of satan's taint.

I just recently made the connection withthe Roman Catholic Church calling Mary the Queen of Heaven with pagan goddesses called that same title. I'd heard them call Mary that for years but never made the connection or even paid it any mind. i was dating a catholic woman once who was praying to Mary and called her the queen of heaven and it made me feel a little odd and uncomfortable because Mary was not a goddess just an apostle.

The time period is when the judgment of God started on mankind. Research this name and see what you come up with.

Beker Baerwald

Also, check this link. LINK

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I wonder, if Russel wasn't one of the messengers of that time period i wonder who was? Usually the messengers stuck out like a sore thumb for being persecuted or martyred, or for how adamant they were about keeping the word clean of satan's taint.

I just recently made the connection withthe Roman Catholic Church calling Mary the Queen of Heaven with pagan goddesses called that same title. I'd heard them call Mary that for years but never made the connection or even paid it any mind. i was dating a catholic woman once who was praying to Mary and called her the queen of heaven and it made me feel a little odd and uncomfortable because Mary was not a goddess just an apostle.

George Whitefield and Jonathan Edwards and Joseph Tracy

Here is a good link. LINK

If Mary did not go to heaven, none of us will go to heaven. I read that in ancient Israel the kings would have a second throne not for their wives but for their mothers. The lady in revelation that birthed the child is Mary.

I'm pretty sure that stars signify angels in the text. Not sure about the churches bit.

If you don't accept that Jesus was a pagan myth why do you apply a different standard to Mary?

reply to post by 547000
The Revelator was not seeing a literal woman in heaven but a sign, which symbolizes something, in this case the synagogues where Judaism was spread around the Greco-Roman world.

Originally posted by Jermicide
The Book of Revelation starts with Christ dictating letters to the 7 churches in Asia Minor. ASIA MINOR. These are churches that John was familiar with not some future churches.

I agree with Jermicide on this. I would add the observation that all seven are simultaneous and living under intense persecution.

So, if anyone asks why these letters have been handed down to us, I suggest that future churches living under the kind of intense persecution which Revelation predicts would be able to examine themselves honestly in the light of these letters, recognise themselves in one of the variants (staying strong, succumbing to pressure, being lukewarm), and take on board the relevant message.

The OP's list is a little arbitrary, as all such lists must be, and not much is said to justify the selection. For the last one, for example, why not John Wesley, or John Henry Newman, or Brooke Foss Westcott? Or what's wrong with the possibility that some of the "messengers" are still in the future?

However, I do agree with his suggestion that the "third Temple" is metaphorical. It is clearly identified in 1 Corinthians ch3; the Church at large is God's temple, the place where his Spirit dwells. The first two verses of Revelation ch11 show us that the enemy of God does manage to occupy this temple, but only the outward structure of it. The inner core is held firmly for God, "measured out" (as in Ezekiel ch40) for his return.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

you r so wrong taze russel was not a latter day saint he founded Jehovahs witnesses

reply to post by jmdewey60


Research Ivory Coast and Fatima. The Lady clothed in the sun is the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Originally posted by Jermicide
The Book of Revelation starts with Christ dictating letters to the 7 churches in Asia Minor. ASIA MINOR. These are churches that John was familiar with not some future churches.

The key to Bible prophecy is to realize where the prophecy begins. In Revelation this is not until chapter 4.

As for the 3rd temple. The 5th seal mentions nothing of the temple.

The seven candlesticks are the menorah. Every Jewish home and synagogue has the menorah. I think people read too much into prophecy without understanding the basis in which it was given.

The seven churches in Asia were indeed Christian, only after their conversion but still many people attending were Jewish believers. The churches are in what is today Turkey. We should understand that the churches were Greek speaking, because of the names. But they were very Jewish centered. Hence, the Jewish identity infused in the prophecies of Revelation.

The menorah is the representation of the candlestick found in the Holy of Holies. That is the center of Jewish worship identity, so it is no wonder that we believe Jesus is the holder of the very symbols of the Jehovah-designed worship system. In fact, of all religions,the only two that believe a deity not only designed the religion but takes an active part as well in the religions are Christianity and Judaism.

We have to accept a Christo-centric view of Revelation, and that view can only be interpreted from the Jewish identity of the subject of the prophecy. What the menorah represented in the Holy of Holies...

The lamps of the menorah were lit daily from fresh, consecrated olive oil and burned from evening until morning, according to Exodus 27:21. The Roman-Jewish historian Flavius Josephus states that three of the seven lamps were allowed to burn during the day also; however, according to the Talmud (Rashi, Tractate Shabbat 22b), only the center lamp was left burning all day, into which as much oil was put as into the others. Although all the other lights were extinguished, that light burned oil, in spite of the fact that it had been kindled first. This miracle according to the Talmud (Tractate Menahot 86b) was taken as a sign that the Shechinah rested over Israel.[10] It was called the ner hama'aravi (Western lamp) because of its position. This lamp was also referred to as the ner Elohim (lamp of God), mentioned in I Samuel 3:3.[1] The miracle of the ner hama'aravi ended about 40 years before the destruction of the Temple (circa 30 c.e.) according the Talmud Tractate (Yoma 39a), "Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple(that is to say around 30ad) the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right ...hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white; nor did the westernmost light shine"

The middle light is the ner Elohim, which means the Light of God. As Christ holds the menorah, he is identifying himself as the creator of light, the knowledge the light represents and the design of the candlestick. Those candlesticks are the seven spirits of God. As John is relating this prophecy, he does so through Jewish identity. He shows Jesus to be very Jewish and not only Jewish, but the Savior of both the Jews and the Gentiles by holding within His hand the menorah that represents Himself. He is the light of knowledge and wisdom that the seven spirits of God illuminate man through and seek the inward parts of man by.

Christ-centric of Jewish identity, only Jesus could reconcile both faiths within Himself and represent both. He is the high priest who keeps the candles burning. It may be mere symbolism, but we need to understand the symbolism. The Christians accept Jesus as the object of symbolism.

Originally posted by HideNASecret
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

you r so wrong taze russel was not a latter day saint he founded Jehovahs witnesses

Yes, I also shook my head a couple of times over that one. Joseph Smith was founder of Latter Day Saints.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Research Ivory Coast and Fatima. The Lady clothed in the sun is the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Also this:

www.childrenofmedjugorje.com...

According to the visionaries, Our Lady seems to be 18. She has black hair and blue eyes, she is wearing a white veil and a blue-grey dress, “It is a color that doesn’t exist on earth,” Vicka explains. Our Lady comes with a crown of 12 stars that floats over her head and she is of an inexpressible beauty. On Christmas day she appears with a golden dress and newborn Baby Jesus hidden in her arms. The visionaries confirm that they all see her in three dimensions, as we see a normal person. They can touch her; and sometimes she even kisses them. She is real.

Originally posted by HideNASecret
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

you r so wrong taze russel was not a latter day saint he founded Jehovahs witnesses

You are correct. My mistake. I was simultaneously reading about both and got my wires crossed.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Jermicide
The Book of Revelation starts with Christ dictating letters to the 7 churches in Asia Minor. ASIA MINOR. These are churches that John was familiar with not some future churches.

The key to Bible prophecy is to realize where the prophecy begins. In Revelation this is not until chapter 4.

As for the 3rd temple. The 5th seal mentions nothing of the temple.

The seven candlesticks are the menorah. Every Jewish home and synagogue has the menorah. I think people read too much into prophecy without understanding the basis in which it was given.

The seven churches in Asia were indeed Christian, only after their conversion but still many people attending were Jewish believers. The churches are in what is today Turkey. We should understand that the churches were Greek speaking, because of the names. But they were very Jewish centered. Hence, the Jewish identity infused in the prophecies of Revelation.

The menorah is the representation of the candlestick found in the Holy of Holies. That is the center of Jewish worship identity, so it is no wonder that we believe Jesus is the holder of the very symbols of the Jehovah-designed worship system. In fact, of all religions,the only two that believe a deity not only designed the religion but takes an active part as well in the religions are Christianity and Judaism.

We have to accept a Christo-centric view of Revelation, and that view can only be interpreted from the Jewish identity of the subject of the prophecy. What the menorah represented in the Holy of Holies...

The lamps of the menorah were lit daily from fresh, consecrated olive oil and burned from evening until morning, according to Exodus 27:21. The Roman-Jewish historian Flavius Josephus states that three of the seven lamps were allowed to burn during the day also; however, according to the Talmud (Rashi, Tractate Shabbat 22b), only the center lamp was left burning all day, into which as much oil was put as into the others. Although all the other lights were extinguished, that light burned oil, in spite of the fact that it had been kindled first. This miracle according to the Talmud (Tractate Menahot 86b) was taken as a sign that the Shechinah rested over Israel.[10] It was called the ner hama'aravi (Western lamp) because of its position. This lamp was also referred to as the ner Elohim (lamp of God), mentioned in I Samuel 3:3.[1] The miracle of the ner hama'aravi ended about 40 years before the destruction of the Temple (circa 30 c.e.) according the Talmud Tractate (Yoma 39a), "Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple(that is to say around 30ad) the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right ...hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white; nor did the westernmost light shine"

The middle light is the ner Elohim, which means the Light of God. As Christ holds the menorah, he is identifying himself as the creator of light, the knowledge the light represents and the design of the candlestick. Those candlesticks are the seven spirits of God. As John is relating this prophecy, he does so through Jewish identity. He shows Jesus to be very Jewish and not only Jewish, but the Savior of both the Jews and the Gentiles by holding within His hand the menorah that represents Himself. He is the light of knowledge and wisdom that the seven spirits of God illuminate man through and seek the inward parts of man by.

Christ-centric of Jewish identity, only Jesus could reconcile both faiths within Himself and represent both. He is the high priest who keeps the candles burning. It may be mere symbolism, but we need to understand the symbolism. The Christians accept Jesus as the object of symbolism.

Good post. I was reading Genesis 47 last night and had this thought. What do you think of it? LINK

reply to post by DISRAELI


Read this, this goes into it with a little more depth.

raptureforums.com...

If you think about the 7 seals and 7 trumpets and 7 bowl judgements (777) and apply them to the evolution of the church as a whole, in particular the Roman Catholic Church it fits perfectly. Thew apostate element breached the church at an early age. Even when the Church was headed and overseen by Paul he fought relentlessly to expose the apostates who were jockeying for power and when Apostle John took over as bishop they began to get a foothold even hough he tried to expose their heresies. After all the Apostles died it was left to their first generation students to keep the true doctrines pure but the taint of satan had already begun to creep in. There were no different denominations back then, the Church was one whole as an entity, this is part of what make sme think those letters were addressing the future generations and that each letter addresses the true believers in each church period.

Here is another site that documents the evolution of the church:

www.revelation-today.com...

Everyone has been thinking for years that Revelation is going to unfold in the literal sense that there will actually be a period of 7 years and that the cataclysms within will be literal, but what if we're wrong? What if everyone has been wrong all along? The problems with humans are we think and see 2 dimensionally, we see whats in front of our faces but we fail to get the big picture as a whole. All we see are just bits and pieces. What if the 7 seals have been broken already? It is very possible because through God all things are possible. Also think of this:

Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,"

We don't see the big picture but he does.

I only corrected you because i am studying to become a witness.