OWS: ATS has your opinion changed?

reply to post by SLAYER69


If you actually wanted to discuss Occupy with a supporter, your tone would be a whole lot less condescending. That's how you come off, in my opinion anyway. If you want a real coversation...I'm interested.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

If you actually wanted to discuss Occupy with a supporter, your tone would be a whole lot less condescending. That's how you come off, in my opinion anyway. If you want a real coversation...I'm interested.

If you go back through the threads and are fair. You'll see which side has actually been more condescending. I agree an open discussion is warranted.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I can cop to defensive.

It's dangerous to assume things about others on the internet, especially here. You'll get a new one ripped verbally. Not from me, i will simply reply to your assertions. I'll use 1, 2 and 3 though as your a, b and 3 system was confusing

Nice retort I enjoy thought out logical ones stating ones stance versus. Nuh UH!! YOU SUCK!! haha

on assumptions: I can handle the abuse. An assumption is just that. Not an opinion, just feeling you out

also, i learned my abc's watching sesame st .. not 3.2.1 contact (if you get that, 5 points!! ) SO i will reply in your #s

1.) I find it sad that the only version of the movement you have seen (or smelled) is bad. I have seen great ones. as you read in my previous post, my own hometown. Its peaceful, and as minute and as inconsequential it might be in the large scheme of things, its one win. Sometimes that is all it takes.

2.) Good on ya mate! We need more people like you who can educate people, rather than point and tell them how terribly stupid they are. The movement is not the only solution either, it's one of many. It just happens to be the loudest one at the moment. Sadly, when everyone is yelling, it's drowns everyone out. The movement as a whole single voice, I think is getting across, it's just not being received well at the moment.

3.) exactly. which is why i'm leaving this one alone.

Originally posted by DrNotforhire

Originally posted by CREAM

Originally posted by DrNotforhire
Yeah but when they attach themselves to OWS (you know masks, SYMBOLISM) talking about bringing down certain aspects of what YOU are complaining about as the so called "99%" it makes them look like you are part of them... and in that... BOOM well you see where im going..

Well actually I am not complaining, I support most of the Anon operations.

And, Anon did start OWS, see the video from sep 10th - www.youtube.com...

and thats the reason I will never support this movement... Being angsty online is the easiest way to kill your cause.. I'm not watching your youtube video on sheer principal of I don't care what kids do in their basements.

A kid in his basement started microsoft. Kids in their homes started anon and OWS, the largest political movement of the year.

So please, continue ignoring kids in basements.

reply to post by SLAYER69

I've been accused of spreading BS when I attempt to discuss the real issues with OWS. So where does that leave me?

Slayer - without using the words BS... just want to say I have an problem with the word 'real'

what are the real issues - as opposed to what you believe are issues? We all obviously disagree on a lot of this - but you ask where this leaves you

I'm wondering - why do you care?

that's not a snotty question by the way :-) I'm actually wondering - why do you care?

I usually don't get involved in the more political threads - not so much in the past anyway. OWS is different - there is something special about it

I have a sense that there are a lot of people that want this to be less divisive - but it's just one of those - isn't it?

...many of the Pro OWS supporters attitudes here are doing a great job of killing my potential support for and hope that OWS will eventually accomplish something tangible after it's all said and done.

why let other people's attitudes make a decision for you? You can support it without supporting every aspect of it, or even liking any of the people involved

I'm not recruiting or proselytizing :-)

just curious about this thread - that's all

things are changing. This seems so unorthodox - I know. Who knows how far it will go - maybe nowhere (though - too late for that now - we're definitely somewhere)? We're not all going to agree on much of it - but we can still move forward together

I wish it were less divisive too

:-)

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I can cop to defensive.

What?
Are we plea bargaining here?

Everybody has a right to have an opinion and a little attitude while tossing in with the rest so as to be heard above the crowd.

It's all good.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

If you actually wanted to discuss Occupy with a supporter, your tone would be a whole lot less condescending. That's how you come off, in my opinion anyway. If you want a real coversation...I'm interested.

I'm glad you brought this up, because I see you being rather harsh and unbending to people who have not sworn 100% support for occupy movements. Rather so much so, and outside of my own experiences, that I find I do not support it anymore in part do to your replies.

You are one who helped me decide to get off of the fence and onto the side that doesn't see occupy as ever achieving anything.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

I'm wondering - why do you care?

You asked a few questions but I'm busy posting and replying elsewhere at the moment.

I care because this is my Country. I love it and want the best for it. I agree with many of what OWS stands for but I disagree with many of the activities that's been carried out by some of it's members.

I've stated why I choose to stand apart here at ATS numerous times. No need to beat a dead horse especially in an open discussion thread on OWS.

The better question should be

Why shouldn't I care?

We're not all going to agree on much of it - but we can still move forward together

I saw that and if you don't mind I would like to respond to it... It is only a assumption that it will move forward. The premise behind the protesting is sound, but the implementation leaves alot to be desired. Way too much of the protesting seems to be at symptoms and not the actual problems. Yea wall street is full of corruption, but why the lack of focus on other parts of the financial crisis??? Where has been the outrage over tax payers propping up Solyndra? Since it was more than just the fed funding it cost us. I just feel that the protest are being funneled at the wrong things, it remains to be seen if it is by accident or design.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

I'm wondering - why do you care?

You asked a few questions but I'm busy posting and replying elsewhere at the moment.

I care because this is my Country. I love it and want the best for it. I agree with many of what OWS stands for but I disagree with many of the activities that's been carried out by some of it's members.

I've stated why I choose to stand apart here at ATS numerous times. No need to beat a dead horse especially in an open discussion thread on OWS.

The better question should be

Why shouldn't I care?

hmm.....well, if you're really just too busy then - OK - I guess I won't have to use the word 'dodging'

yes - I know you care because you love your country - and we can see that standing apart is part of your reason for being

but, that isn't what I asked

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Ok...

I'll set all other activities I was doing and people I was in discussion with aside to address you here and now. I have made these very clear more times than I care to mention in many MANY threads of which I haven't seen your participation in so it's no wonder you are unaware of them but here they are and by the way I disagree with a few other aspects not just these.


1. Union involvement.
2. Some advocating a Communist Agenda.
3. Civil disobedience.
4. Some Advocating Violence.
5. Some Advocating Armed conflict.
6. Destruction of Public and Private Property.
7. Occupying a Foreign Consulate.
8. No clear agenda
9. No clear leadership
10. Lack of personal responsibility

OWS claims they want change but WHAT change. I can not support any group that will not define there cause and keeps it vague.

Like Obama ran on a platform of change but never defined that change and look what we got. nothing but more big government at its worst.
cache2.allpostersimages.com...

I still believe OWS is a front for the Democrats and run by them.

Many democratic politicians have already tied themselves to the OWS movement.

OWS is only a scam to counter the Tea Party.

By the way i don't support the Tea Party ether.

reply to post by SLAYER69

I'll set all other activities I was doing and people I was in discussion with aside to address you here and now. I have made these very clear more times than I care to mention in many MANY threads of which I haven't seen your participation in so it's no wonder you are unaware of them but here they are

why thank you Slayer - that was very gracious

I don't follow you around, so, I apologize for not being up to speed...

you still didn't answer my question

:-)

I don't expect you will either - though it was harmless - and well intentioned

reply to post by nopeitwasntme


no you are right... ill add public urination to the good things... I can't lie.. I love peeing outside

I dont know.. I appreciate the younger crew gathering and protesting... sweet I thought we lost that to the internet..

the ideas and thinking of some of these people are just asinine... you are right

what change? what do you want to happen...

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I posted what I believe are some of the Real issues in my opinion. Whether you care to acknowledge them as such or not is beyond my control.

If for some reason I'm being overly dense and have missed the thrust of your query please forgive me. I have been distracted elsewhere. I am done and now can grant this thread my full attention again.

Was there anything else?

To be entirely honest, my views with fairly ambiguous, and complex things, ideas, and movements change on pretty much a daily basis to some extent. I've found myself arguing both sides of both OWS, and the tea party movement.

I finally made a judgment that stuck about a month ago. That being, just as the tea party movement was loosely organized at first, and infiltrated over time, so too had become the case with OWS. I don't doubt many people are trying to start up a grass-roots movement, and I support that in general, but differ by a wide margin on who to be focusing our energies on, and what exactly needs to be done to accomplish the goal of return of the government AND corporations to the public.

I think BOTH corporate law, AND government need major restructuring, so as to limit the power of tyrants which have controlled seemingly most or all major spheres of global influence for a while now.

Until we unite with a sound plan which both appeals to the universal principals embedded within each individuals sense of humanity, and leads way to the taking back that sovereignty of the individual and his constitution, this will all be in vein.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Was there anything else?

lol!

yes - there was

and thank you - but it will keep - on my way out the door...

I'll re-ask later - and I'll make myself more clear - promise

My stance changed from confusion to disbelief to scorn to resigned. OWS still doesn't have a clear goal, just a tenuous Something Needs to be Done. Of course, "done to what" nobody can figure out, least of all the people that are sitting by watching.

/TOA

I just wanted to thank everybody who has participated in the discussion thus far and for keeping it civil.