Is the TEA party sabotaging the economy to make Obama fail?

Originally posted by DrNotforhire

Originally posted by beezzer
Let's play a little game of logic, shall we?

If the Tea Party is so strong as to cause companies not to hire, limiting the debt ceiling ( nearly ) and causing such pain and distress to Obama, don't you think we would have been able to do more?

I mean, we hate the Patriot Act, we can't stand the TSA, DHS drives us nuts, we don't want Obamacare, and Kathy Lee Gifford is still on the air.

If we were that facking powerful, we'd have at least gotten Kathy Lee off the air AND saved Kim Kardashians wedding!

RIGHT? and the dude not hiring looks like hes in the 1%

Are you implying that the Tea Party is in control, or IS the1%

reply to post by beezzer


Oh no I was agreeing with you and using some tongue in cheap humor... The guy who owns the truck.. hes in the 1% right? That's why the economy is failing because this ONE self employed (I'm assuming) guy is NOT hiring...

:-p

Originally posted by DrNotforhire
reply to post by beezzer

 

Oh no I was agreeing with you and using some tongue in cheap humor... The guy who owns the truck.. hes in the 1% right? That's why the economy is failing because this ONE self employed (I'm assuming) guy is NOT hiring...

:-p

Then most humble apologies. I completely misread your post.

Mea Culpa.

Beez

Originally posted by Destiny777
reply to post by FortAnthem

 

He doesn't need the Tea party to sabotage him,

Originally posted by Chance321

Please, now that is really grasping at straws. obamas doing a good enough job of sabotaging the economy all by himself, he doen't need any help.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Is the TEA party sabotaging the economy to make Obama fail?

No. Obama is doing a good enough job of failing all on his own. No one has to 'sabatoge' him.

Well apparently the Tea Party disagress with ya' all, or did anyone read the OP?

It is their clear belief that they can and must sabotage the economy.

Apart from the question whether the TP can effect the US economy...they believe they can.

For what it is worth, a very strong case can be made that it was the Freshman TP members of congress that caused the original Debt Ceiling negotiations to mostly fail, with many outright demanding that the USA default.

The bargain that Boehner negotiated with the President failed because the new TP congressman refused to OK a debt ceiling raise for any reason, and the resultant half-ass deal earned the USA it's first ever credit downgrade in history. Can the TP effect the economy?

The modern conservative movement (not the traditional conservative movement) thrives in depressed times. It allows them to capitalize on anger and despair, appeal to emotions, rather than defend irrational positions on actual issues.

There is certainly a strong motive for the far right to want the economy not to recover and to claim there isn't, after 3 years of following Limbaugh's "Obama must fail!!" lead, is not an honest assesment.

Here is the pledge that Tea Party Leader Melissa Brookstone asked members to agree too

I, an American small business owner, part of the class that produces the vast majority of real, wealth producing jobs in this country, hereby resolve that I will not hire a single person until this war against business and my country is stopped.

I would any business would Hire if it meant better profits and expansions.

I would think any business that is having problems with sales/expenses would not hire until a better climate exists.

Blind hiring practices don't guarantee better business.

reply to post by Indigo5

The bargain that Boehner negotiated with the President failed because the new TP congressman refused to OK a debt ceiling raise for any reason, and the resultant half-ass deal earned the USA it's first ever credit downgrade in history. Can the TP effect the economy?

How does the US credit downgrade affect businesses in regards to hiring?

Sounds like it could, but how?

I would think that businesses would not go along with this if it was going to hurt credit in the longrun.

Yes... I also heard the Tea Party was planning on summoning the dark one cthulhu. They also want to invade Canada!! The OWS wants to steal lunch money from orphans though and eat babies. So I'm torn on who's the worse based on a hyperbolic scale of ridiculousness and fear.

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by Indigo5

 

The bargain that Boehner negotiated with the President failed because the new TP congressman refused to OK a debt ceiling raise for any reason, and the resultant half-ass deal earned the USA it's first ever credit downgrade in history. Can the TP effect the economy?

How does the US credit downgrade affect businesses in regards to hiring?

Sounds like it could, but how?

I would think that businesses would not go along with this if it was going to hurt credit in the longrun.

Specifically the Downgrade effected micro-economic (1 year or less) hiring by interjecting significant uncertaintity into the economy. CFOs and Chief Economists across the country as well as multi-nationals advise thier board of directors and CEOs as to predicted economic outlook in the comming 6 months to a year. Should they hire to meet the expected demand in anticipation of continued recovery? The US downgrade stripped capital from the market as the stock market fell and put a big exclaimation mark on "who knows what the hell the next 6 months will look like" and encouraged many corporations to hold off on hiring...road ahead foggy.

Even conservative economists affirmed that the downgrade was a punch to the gut of hiring and the economy...but it is short-term...maybe 4-6 months before back on track...in a macro-economic model the economy will recover on course regardless, but ever so slowly, but if the GOP can continue to deliver gut punches over the next 12 months whenever they can, they will be able to hinder hiring and recovery by a small degree...but with the recovery being slow as it is after such a big blow in 08 and 09...even hindering hiring and recovery by a small degree can inflict over-sized damage.

I can rattle off a list of links...objective financial analysts and economists as well as a handful of conservative economists all explaining how the downgrade effected the economy if it will help. Just let me know.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
Yes... I also heard the Tea Party was planning on summoning the dark one cthulhu. They also want to invade Canada!! The OWS wants to steal lunch money from orphans though and eat babies. So I'm torn on who's the worse based on a hyperbolic scale of ridiculousness and fear.

actually,

cthulhu might just be what the doctor ordered

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Indigo5

CFOs and Chief Economists across the country as well as multi-nationals advise thier board of directors and CEOs as to predicted economic outlook in the comming 6 months to a year. Should they hire to meet the expected demand in anticipation of continued recovery? The US downgrade stripped capital from the market as the stock market fell and put a big exclaimation mark on "who knows what the hell the next 6 months will look like" and encouraged many corporations to hold off on hiring...road ahead foggy.

That makes some sense.

Perception and Projections play a big role in the big businesses.

But with interest rates low, they should still be borrowing and expanding by issuing their own corporate bonds that have their own ratings.

This is what has many economists perplexed.

The Tea Party and the GOP are one and the same. So to rephrase the question: Is the Republican party sabotaging the economy to make Obama fail?

"Damn The Country, Obama Must Fail" - Posted to ATS by SkepticOverlord back in 2009.

no they are just scared of Mr. Paul. left jealous of the right..... that is absolutely retarded just cause the they are stupid doesn't mean they care


2nd

Originally posted by stuncrazy
no they are just scared of Mr. Paul. left jealous of the right..... that is absolutely retarded just cause the they are stupid doesn't mean they care


2nd

Nobody is scared of Ron Paul.

Although people like to talk about Ron Paul, when it comes down to it there just aren’t enough supporters willing to push the button for Ron Paul and elect him….you’ll see that soon when he loses the primary.

The only thing to be fearful of is that Paul will change parties after he loses and pull just enough votes in the general election from the Republican nominee to get Obama reelected….that’s it!

My guess is many people on ATS would prefer four more years of Obama than a Republican. If that’s your desire then you just might get lucky. Time will tell…

reply to post by seabag


That's not a real fear. The mainstream Republicans don't stand a chance against Obama anyway. If they don't nominate Paul, then it is just a matter of whether Obama wins 55/45 or a bigger landslide.

I'm happy to wait and see what the Primaries hold. I think you and all others will be surprised. For some reason, people think these mainstream polls with 250 respondents are somehow more accurate than the online polls with 80,000 unique respondents? I don't understand the logic. The folks at home at 5 pm on a week night, answering their antiquated land line, and willing to offer up 15 minutes to a stranger to talk about politics are certainly no indication of the average American, LOL! The polls are skewed, Ron Paul is a serious contender. The Primaries will show it.

If I'm wrong, so be it. It won't matter much, Obama will be re-elected, but the SHTF shortly thereafter anyway so it doesn't really matter. The only real hope for the nation is a true conservative like Ron Paul.

Originally posted by Chance321

Please, now that is really grasping at straws. obamas doing a good enough job of sabotaging the economy all by himself, he doen't need any help.

Obama did not create this condition silly rabbit, that's a damn lie and you know it.
The economy has gotten progressively better under Obama the Stock market is
back at better rates and the country ain't losing half a million jobs a month or worse
like it was.

I didn't vote for him last time but I might do it this time ignore where we were as much as
you like, does make you a very honest person though.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by stuncrazy
no they are just scared of Mr. Paul. left jealous of the right..... that is absolutely retarded just cause the they are stupid doesn't mean they care


2nd

Nobody is scared of Ron Paul.

Although people like to talk about Ron Paul, when it comes down to it there just aren’t enough supporters willing to push the button for Ron Paul and elect him….you’ll see that soon when he loses the primary.

The only thing to be fearful of is that Paul will change parties after he loses and pull just enough votes in the general election from the Republican nominee to get Obama reelected….that’s it!

My guess is many people on ATS would prefer four more years of Obama than a Republican. If that’s your desire then you just might get lucky. Time will tell…

I voted for him last time cause he's honest but I think he is too extreme now when the country is
getting up. I would rather have a liberal that listens to conservative wishes then a conservative who
ain't conservative and loves to give America away to the companies and does all the rest like
a piss poor liberal. Real republicans are the slime of the Earth talking about liberals while be liberal
and selling American people out for the men with billions.

reply to post by jacklondonmiller


I agree Obama had nothing to do with where we were.

He has however made it worse with the bailouts and QE. What you see as "better" is just a dress on a goat. The stock market is just a bubble, the QE is just inflation, the banks are not lending the money they were given, the global markets are collapsing, the debt is skyrocketing, the unemployment is still terrible, and the average American is still suffering, or possibly suffering even worse, our children are now indebted more than ever before, and large corporations are posting record profits.

The crash was inevitable, that was not Obama's fault. What he did to alleviate it was probably done on advice by the experts, and probably with the best of intentions, but it is exactly the opposite of what should have been done.

We are repeating the exact mistakes that led to the first Great Depression, except this time on a global level and an accelerated pace!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by jacklondonmiller

 

I agree Obama had nothing to do with where we were.

He has however made it worse with the bailouts and QE. What you see as "better" is just a dress on a goat. The stock market is just a bubble, the QE is just inflation, the banks are not lending the money they were given, the global markets are collapsing, the debt is skyrocketing, the unemployment is still terrible, and the average American is still suffering, or possibly suffering even worse, our children are now indebted more than ever before, and large corporations are posting record profits.

The crash was inevitable, that was not Obama's fault. What he did to alleviate it was probably done on advice by the experts, and probably with the best of intentions, but it is exactly the opposite of what should have been done.

We are repeating the exact mistakes that led to the first Great Depression, except this time on a global level and an accelerated pace!

How do you see it that way? The great depression got real bad when Hoover let millions of Americans
starve, my parent went through that for many years. The debt is so out of control I think we will
find that that money will never be reaped from the American people, never.

On back to letting a hundred million plus depositors in US institutions lose everything in 2008,
how would that have been a good plan? I personally think them bailout would go to people,
but then if that was it we would have Russia and such. This stuff happens when you let
the richest men make up the rules to a nation of laws.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
For some reason, people think these mainstream polls with 250 respondents are somehow more accurate than the online polls with 80,000 unique respondents? I don't understand the logic. The folks at home at 5 pm on a week night, answering their antiquated land line, and willing to offer up 15 minutes to a stranger to talk about politics are certainly no indication of the average American, LOL! The polls are skewed, Ron Paul is a serious contender. The Primaries will show it.

Not that I am a big fan of traditional polling, but they are more accurate than online polls.

A well done traditional poll requires a lot of things to be reliable..

1000 participants....more is better, but decades of research show that 1000 is the minimum needed to get a statistically relevant result.

Cell phone adjustment.....Traditional polls are by nature skewed to people who have landlines as cell phones are more difficult to poll. With a whole generation that primarily owns cell phones and many without any "land-lines"...pollsters are forced to try and extrapolate from a sample what cell phone respondants think and factor that in....weight the results. Polls that don't include that are skewed to reflect older voters.

Questions...the same same question can be asked in different ways to get different answers. This is a big one. You can phrase your question to fish for a certain answer.

Any Poll that is sponsored (paid for) by a political organization or interest group should be questioned.
Bottom line...if they don't deliver what the customer wants they will get less business from that customer.
It encourages pollsters to bias the questions and even the sample.

Online Polls have one big issue. They allow respondants to simply refresh their browser and vote as many times as they like. Polls that try to combat this by rembering IP addys are easily bypassed by any security software that denies access to that info. I have tested that fault with many online polls...simply refresh, vote...repeat.

Example: Here is a bad Poll with Agenda in my opinion.

Rassmussen's recent Poll concluding "Most people favor repeal of the Health Care Reform Law"

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters shows that 55% at least somewhat favor repeal of the health care law, with 42% who Strongly Favor it. Thirty-seven percent (37%) at least somewhat oppose repeal, with 26% who are Strongly Opposed.

When I examined the actual questions last week they were horribly biased. I just went to look at the survey now and they now require you to join/pay rassmussen to see the questions!

Anyways...The questions were structured like..."Do you approve of healthcare law"...which is much more confusing than "Do you approve of the recent healthcare reform law passed by congress"

It also asked people if they favored a privately run healthcare system to a government run healthcare system...which is misleading because the healthcare reform law is a hybrid between the two. "Government takeover of Healthcare" was even declared the Politifact "Lie of the year"...

It was a very basd poll, but people don't drill down on the actual polls and questions, which is what pollsters with agenda count on.

Originally posted by Chance321

Please, now that is really grasping at straws. obamas doing a good enough job of sabotaging the economy all by himself, he doen't need any help.

How so?
Explain in detail.
Educate me.
Shy away from AM radio talking points as I have already heard them.
Thank you in advance.