"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth"

"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.
-Isaiah 45:22

Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?
-Isaiah 2:22

Christians need to bear in mind that the bible says that these are the words of God himself.
These two verses make it clear that
a)God is the only way to be saved...
and b) that man cannot be trusted.

Now, given the christian idea that Jesus Christ, a regular man, (or "fully-man, fully-God" as I've heard some say) does the "saving", it appears to me that these words in Isaiah have lost their significance to Christians, or have been replaced by NT theology. Is this the case? Or have I missed something.

Before you post a reply, please don't just quote a passage from the NT which "proves" that Jesus saves ....because you would just be only pointing out a contradiction within the bible.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


That's right.

God is perfect.
God made man in their image.
Man is fallible.
Either the Bible lies, God isn't perfect, or we weren't made in their image.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The excluded middle is always the way to fix a paradox. When we see a paradox that seems to reflect at a point, either both are correct or both are incorrect. Typically, one is not the only answer. This is precisely why God and Jesus are a paradox by the way. It defies our reasoning, yet both are one and both are correct. Consider this as a tree.

The root is God. The first offshoot is Jesus, the Son of God (Word / Wave / LOGOS / LAW / Governor / Lord). Why is son the way we describe God? The same reason God is the Father. All life is the miracle of one thing. That one thing is two coming together in union to make one. Once one has union, one plus one equals three. Where is the second that created the Son? The Holy Spirit is consciousness. Apart from consciousness, no choice to divide can be made.

Now examine your own branch on the tree. You are the product of a soul that gained union with another soul to create a third soul. Trace your soul back through the tree to see that you originate with the first soul. The first Adam was Jesus. He was also the last Adam, the firstfruits of the spirit.

1 Corinthians 15
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

This is the secret of secrets revealed. The spiritual body incarnates into the person (body). This unique creation then produces union with another to make yet another body for the next spiritual body to occupy. What is the end game here? Our spiritual body uses the host body to gain union with God in the womb of the earth. Once we gain union with God in faith and love, our hope is that we then bear fruit in the tree above with God.

Nature reveals this process. A fruit buds, grows, ripens and then drops. The seeds inside then gain union with the soil. Compare this to the person who is born, grows and the dies to reveal the seeds that were developed in the process. Some people never ripen or gain union with the soul. Spirit and soul must gain union or the process is returned back to the water of the material world.

With all this said, the process of union takes three. The two that preexist and the one that is born from the union. We are all a product of three.

Why do two preexist? They are all three one and are all three pre-existent together as one. This is where our reasoning ends and what came before is what is. God said, I Am, not we are. Genesis then says, We and Us. The consciousness that says I AM, also has the ability by the miracle of the one, to say, "We". We are all part of the first union.

How did I write my book? It was nothing and then something. Now there are 3000+. Particle, Wave and consciousness. I am the trinity in one person. Father (light / Duality of particle and wave), Son (Word / Wave) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness).

Why is light one light, yet a duality of particle and wave?

And what about us non-Christians that don't care what the Bible says? What would you give to us as proof that we should turn to your God?

reply to post by superman2012


There are a couple of ways to go with your position, here's the easiest. An image is commonly considered to be a photograph, painting, or sculpture. It's an image of something else, but it's nowhere near that something else. I suppose you could look at it as man being a 2-D image of a 3-D God.

God is infallible, yes.
We were made in God's image, and one of the things we've lost is infallibility, yes.
Man is infallible, yes.

reply to post by cetaphobic


Didn't they already!? They took all the pagan holidays and Christianized them. Isn't that enough to convert you?

reply to post by charles1952


But to be made in their image could mean, in their spiritual image...doesn't necessarily have to be visual. My point is that the Bible is contradictory, just as the Vatican is. If you "know" something to be true, don't change your mind on it, especially if it is something people can't argue. When they start changing it and tweaking it, that is when you start to have people questioning it.

Originally posted by cetaphobic
And what about us non-Pagans that don't care what the Bible says? What would you give to us as proof that we should turn to your God?

Read my post above, then ask yourself this question. Do I care that my hair grows, my eyes see, the sun shines and the earth turns apart from me?

What do you do to produce yourself that does not involve thought and movement? Nothing. You only move and think. All the other trillion things that allow this to happen are not part of your doing. They are only there for your becoming. Name one thing you do, other than think and move, and you can boast that you are above a God that provides the other thrilling things.

First evidence is this realization.

Consider Einstein and what he said composes reality.

Time, Space, Matter and Energy

Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Physics tells us that light is a duality of particle and wave. All substance takes the first four aspects and forms matter and life from particle and wave, then animates this with consciousness.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

The Word is the Son of God. This is the wave that creates reality form the light of God the Father.

Father (Light, both particle and wave / Word / Information / Consciousness)
Son (Word / Logos)
Holy Spirit (Consciousness)

God is one from these three. We are one person, projected from these three by space, time, matter and energy. Your body is light, both particle and wave, animated by consciousness.

Need more evidence?

Hebrews 11
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

1 Colossians 1:
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Why an image?

Light is brought into reality as a 3D image of matter, animated in time and space by energy.

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

You are the projection of God in image. You are also residing in that image.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by charles1952

 

But to be made in their image could mean, in their spiritual image...doesn't necessarily have to be visual. My point is that the Bible is contradictory, just as the Vatican is. If you "know" something to be true, don't change your mind on it, especially if it is something people can't argue. When they start changing it and tweaking it, that is when you start to have people questioning it.

Have you ever seen the demonstration that half of anything still leaves two halves of the next reminder, so infinity is never measured. The size of the measuring devices determines the length or measure of what is being divided into unites. The measuring device can always be reduced. When dealing with a fractal, which is what reality is, above and below cannot be measured. Infinity is infinite. God is infinite. Truth is infinite. We are all measuring units of infinite, so each unite will measure what it examines differently. Truth is in degrees. All truths are but half truths. Those Hermetic axioms are accurate. As above, so below is where we are--below. God is above. Each of us understands by degree. The degrees are all the same thing. Why else do we go to school to earn a degree?

Dear superman2012,

Thank you for your kind response, there is something here to be explored. You're quite right, the image doesn't have to be visual and that's probably the least important feature of mankind anyway. What I was thinking was that the word "image" meant that it had something less than the original had. Maybe that something is important.

I won't manage it tonight, but would you like to do some looking around for the meaning of the word?

The Bible and the Vatican being contradictory? I'll certainly believe it of the Vatican, they're just guys after all. Infallibility doesn't come into play often at all. The Bible? Maybe, but I don't think it's contradictory in any meaningful way. Somebody may have gotten the "begats" reversed, or maybe some small scribal error here or there, but I don't see it as a big problem.

Would you like to mention a couple that are particularly bothering you?

Sorry, I'm not sure I know what you mean by "changing and tweaking." You mean new translations?

With respect,
Charles1952

God is indeed infallible!
We are infallible.
We are God, and God is us.
For us to make a mistake would mean for God to make a mistake.
Accidents do not happen, all has been premade.
The written word is a lie, made to set the stage for us while on this plane of existance.
Enjoy the ride.

So... did you read any other verses in the book? Jesus is God. He's God in the flesh.

reply to post by charles1952


Hey Kal-El,

If were made, created or manifested in God's image, and then lost our infallibility, hence men becoming infallible. Can God then, in theory also lose his infallibility?

As children we are born with our parents characteristic's and gene's (their image), and through love and nurturing we develop and grow. As children of God, can he,she, be credited for our upbringing, how much can orphan's thank their biological parents for their's?

Dear InspirationEverywhere,

I'm glad you're jumping in, this may become very interesting. By the way, who (or what) is Kal-El?

I'm not sure I'm willing to accept your idea that men became fallible. I think they always were fallible, that's how they were able to screw up in the garden.

I'm a little reluctant to say that we have the genes of God in our body. If we did, wouldn't we be perfect in some characteristic? If we started with all God's genes, how did we lose them?

Upbringing? Except for miraculous intervention, I think God leaves that to people. It's the whole free will and personal responsibility thing.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by InspirationEverywhere
reply to post by charles1952

 

Hey Kal-El,

If were made, created or manifested in God's image, and then lost our infallibility, hence men becoming infallible. Can God then, in theory also lose his infallibility?

As children we are born with our parents characteristic's and gene's (their image), and through love and nurturing we develop and grow. As children of God, can he,she, be credited for our upbringing, how much can orphan's thank their biological parents for their's?

That is exactly what I was thinking, I just didn't or couldn't put it in the same words you did.

Kal-El is Superman's kryptonian name!

Originally posted by charles1952
Dear superman2012,

Thank you for your kind response, there is something here to be explored. You're quite right, the image doesn't have to be visual and that's probably the least important feature of mankind anyway. What I was thinking was that the word "image" meant that it had something less than the original had. Maybe that something is important.

I won't manage it tonight, but would you like to do some looking around for the meaning of the word?

The Bible and the Vatican being contradictory? I'll certainly believe it of the Vatican, they're just guys after all. Infallibility doesn't come into play often at all. The Bible? Maybe, but I don't think it's contradictory in any meaningful way. Somebody may have gotten the "begats" reversed, or maybe some small scribal error here or there, but I don't see it as a big problem.

Would you like to mention a couple that are particularly bothering you?

Sorry, I'm not sure I know what you mean by "changing and tweaking." You mean new translations?

With respect,
Charles1952

My image in the mirror, although exactly identical, is not me. If someone were to make a painting, carving, statue of me, again, it wouldn't be me. I don't know exactly what I am trying to say, but, if we were made in their image, what part of us is reflected from them?

There are only a couple of problems I have with the Bible. First, people believe it to be the word of God. Now you can say that it was written by God using men as His pen, but, why go through that trouble? Second, there have been sooo many rewrites of the Bible that who knows what the real message was supposed to be? Do we just wait for the Book of Jesus? Or do we take the Dead sea scrolls as gospel? Too many unanswered questions from people of the faith for me to take religion seriously (although it is fascinating). I don't have a problem with people believing in Religion as it usually fills a void that they need in their life. The only problem I have with organized religion is the fact that they don't volunteer their time, they ask for money, and they usually preach out of a beautiful building. Oh, and the people that push the old, "if you don't believe in my religion, you are wrong.".

I'm a little reluctant to say that we have the genes of God in our body. If we did, wouldn't we be perfect in some characteristic? If we started with all God's genes, how did we lose them?

Upbringing? Except for miraculous intervention, I think God leaves that to people. It's the whole free will and personal responsibility thing.

If you have children, when you watch them as babies and as they grow, what parent doesn't think that their children are perfect?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.
-Isaiah 45:22

Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he?
-Isaiah 2:22

Christians need to bear in mind that the bible says that these are the words of God himself.
These two verses make it clear that
a)God is the only way to be saved...
and b) that man cannot be trusted.

Now, given the christian idea that Jesus Christ, a regular man, (or "fully-man, fully-God" as I've heard some say) does the "saving", it appears to me that these words in Isaiah have lost their significance to Christians, or have been replaced by NT theology. Is this the case? Or have I missed something.

Before you post a reply, please don't just quote a passage from the NT which "proves" that Jesus saves ....because you would just be only pointing out a contradiction within the bible.

I love the book of Isaiah! Absolutely one of my favs.

I don't see how these words have lost their significance or that they've been replaced by NT theology.... especially if Jesus is the one the prophet is talking through.

Jesus who goes by many titles is often called the "Word." How the "Word" comes to live inside us is not all that difficult to figure out. Isaiah is the only prophet who gives somewhat of an account of the process. He speaks of having unclean lips after seeing the glory of God, in the temple. An angel takes some tongs and takes a live coal off the altar and touches Isaiah's lips, so he can be made clean and put into further service for God. Subsequent prophets do not give such detail. Most just say "the Word of the LORD came to me."

The process isn't even hinted at again, until John the Baptist speaks of it. He said he baptizes with water, but one comes after him who WILL baptize us with fire and spirit. Jesus' entire first coming is centered around the process, better known as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is why he is the Son of God who everthing has been entrusted to - because God the Father has now allowed all these mysteries to be made public. Contained within the stories, there are timestamps and when we see a timestamp, there is usually a mystery involved. These timestamps are for confermation when a person is on the narrow path Jesus spoke of.

After the baptism of the Holy Spirit , and we realize Jesus is living within us, the title Son of Man makes a lot more sense. Jesus did say, that the Son of Man has "no place to lay his head" and before you finish going through the towns, the Son of Man will come.

And everyone can have such intimate knowledge of the workings of the Messiah if they only follow the commands like he asks. He said if we love him we will "follow" the commands. There is order to the narrow path. Doing it any other way does not lead to the truth God desires you to have.

Repent and Follow me are the first two commands Jesus gives in finding the narrow path.

reply to post by superman2012

The only problem I have with organized religion is the fact that they don't volunteer their time, they ask for money, and they usually preach out of a beautiful building. Oh, and the people that push the old, "if you don't believe in my religion, you are wrong.".

The thing is that the bible is accessible to all. "Organized religion" or rather, those who organize religious establishments claim to understand the bible the way its meant to be understood.
Preachers with fancy buildings, TV broadcasting, marketing etc. get their way, because they have large numbers of people following them. These people have way too much faith in the preacher, who is usually a charismatic speaker and exhibit the charm and stage presence of a rock star.

These same people need to wake up and realise that all they need is a basic comprehension of the English language and a sincere study of the bible on their own without adhering to any particular interpretation of the bible that they may have heard from elsewhere before.

That said, it does not need to be a preacher in a fancy building to pull the old "if you don't believe in my religion, you are wrong." line. It can be everyday christians who are merely repeating what they have been taught before. For example - they say "only Jesus can save you"... I point out, that God says in the bible that only He can. So which is it for christians?

Jesus, according to their understanding was that he was a man like you and me. Yet, when faced with such questions, they often modify Jesus' character as being "fully man and fully God" (trust me, Ive heard this before) While its a rather creative way of solving a problem, its a very unbiblical answer, for the reason that the bible has drawn the lines between man and God. The idea of man being God and vice-versa leans heavily towards various mythologies from around the world....where humans were "divine".

That said, Christians cant have it both ways... they cant both claim that what they believe is special and different from other beliefs.... AND not recognizing that many "christian" concepts are identical to other religious beliefs.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

a)God is the only way to be saved...
and b) that man cannot be trusted.

God is the ultimate arbiter, so no one gets saved without God's say so.
Jesus is not just an ordinary man but was sent from above.
YHWH was a man in a chariot.
God would correspond to El, the father of YHWH.
Jesus as the glorified Christ would have the same type of relationship with God, as YHWH had with El.
YHWH introduced a new name for God, as being the representative of El, as Jesus introduces us now to the new name for God, in that Jesus represents the character of God, including acting as savior.