Christian reaction to alien contact

reply to post by Frira


I actually never attacked religion or christianity in my posts in this thread. I asked a question and made a wee sarcastic comment that essentially stated that after years of getting their own way, many of faith seem not to be able to take what they dish out.

reply to post by Frira


I'll have to read your post a few more times. I think part of your post is dealing with theosis. Theosis is probably more inspiring for people who have a closer relationship with God. I'm a disillusioned Christian turned atheist or something.

But I still think that God would not need to incarnate as every species with the same destiny as humans. He incarnated as a one of his chosen race, but he applied this to all humans. What is a species anyway? I don't see any reason why the human Jesus wouldn't be applicable to Reptilians and dolphins by redefining human beyond a biological species - as more of a capability for obedience and theosis and so forth.

Originally posted by Frira
That is, indeed, a anthropocentric statement which leaves little or no wiggle room-- no matter the intelligence of any species other than the human one. The least intelligent human (Christian or otherwise-- by my learned opinion, and I know I'll get flack for saying so) has the same hope-- of a deifying unity with God after the resurrection of the dead-- that promise is not extended to any other creature.

Just curious about the "Christian or otherwise" part of your post.

Originally posted by cloudyday
reply to post by Frira

 

I'll have to read your post a few more times. I think part of your post is dealing with theosis. Theosis is probably more inspiring for people who have a closer relationship with God. I'm a disillusioned Christian turned atheist or something.

"Or something!" I have shaken my fist at Heaven a few times and turned to run; but "Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue." The Hound of Heaven outran me.

"Disillusioned" is where so much of modern Christian thought has set itself up to fail us all:

The following cow-patties, and many others, are strewn about the pasture:
* "Believe on Jesus and you will be healed!"
* "Believe on Jesus and you will be rich!"
* "Believe on Jesus and you will be free!"

To the Church: Don't tell such things to a man dying of cancer, if he thinks health means cured; don't tell such things to a homeless man if he thinks rich means ease, and don't tell such things to a man facing the gallows if thinks free means reprieve. The Gospel does not mean those things-- it never has. Ultimately those false promises are illicit tools which offer power but no hope; and the power is never given-- or not that kind of power.

And, Yes, in my previous post, I was writing about theosis. As far as reading it again-- I'm not sure I should have let me fingers get to the keyboard as I meditated. It may well only have meaning to me.

But I still think that God would not need to incarnate as every species with the same destiny as humans. He incarnated as a one of his chosen race, but he applied this to all humans. What is a species anyway? I don't see any reason why the human Jesus wouldn't be applicable to Reptilians and dolphins by redefining human beyond a biological species - as more of a capability for obedience and theosis and so forth.

edit on 23-11-2011 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

Yes. What is "human?" Is it in the DNA or in the heart or in the soul or in the mind?

Science tells me it is in the DNA, but science also tells me that we know there is more to it than that-- but mostly we only know that we do not know it all. Furthermore, and as you pointed out, Christ Jesus is held to have been incarnate most specifically as a Jew, but extended that beyond whatever genetic sequence can identify one as a descendent of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I, for one, and but a spiritual descendent-- perhaps our theorized aliens would have a reasonable hope in that.

Yesterday, I was reading through a thread about interviews with Betty Hill (1962-ish alien abduction). She referred, I read, to the aliens as humanoid. I thought of this thread.

If they are human, then they have a part in the Gospel-- not as "prey" to the Church (and believe me, I see Christians acting as predators, using their faith as a weapon against those without it-- shame); but as brothers and sisters. If they are not human, they still cannot be "prey" to the Church ; but, if not human, "brother and sister" is kind, but false in spiritual terms.

Obviously, spirituality is not the only basis for human relations. Still, if an alien race has plumbed the mathematical depths of quantum physics and yet has no capacity for spiritual thought and actions-- I would find that disappointing-- perhaps minds forever stuck for lack of ability to transcend the physical. You see, when person speculate about the inter-dimensional beings, I cannot help but conclude that they do exists-- because WE are trans-dimensional by nature-- but only partially aware of it.

Or, perhaps, the aliens may unwittingly visit us to encounter those superior spiritual entities called humans, so that they may be prepared for their own spiritual destiny which God may intend for them.

****

I think finding an alien race to be more advanced technologically or intellectually would be demoralizing to many-- and it probably ought to be-- which brings me back to the topic of being disillusioned...

A wise man once said, "If you want to stop being disillusioned, stop exercising in delusions." By the way, he was not referring to my faith (which he did not share), but to my incessant expectation that most people are good, trustworthy and just.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by Frira
That is, indeed, a anthropocentric statement which leaves little or no wiggle room-- no matter the intelligence of any species other than the human one. The least intelligent human (Christian or otherwise-- by my learned opinion, and I know I'll get flack for saying so) has the same hope-- of a deifying unity with God after the resurrection of the dead-- that promise is not extended to any other creature.

Just curious about the "Christian or otherwise" part of your post.

edit on 23-11-2011 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

Standing me up so target practice may commence?! Ha!

Yes. The problem with the Church is not God-- the problem with the Church is that it is made up of humans.

So, if the Church teaches wrongly, or if the Church judges unjustly, or if the Church uses illicit means to coerce-- then the Church has failed and others are right to reject it. God being just, knows all of that.

I am not alone in believing that what Christ Jesus is quoted as saying in Matthew 25 (the part about sheep and goats, and what follows about the works of non-believers and the lack of works by believers) is indicative of the salvation of Non-Christians-- and the perilous judgment which may still await believers if their trust is their faith as lorded over others.

Some texts which the Early Church read, but which were not included in the Canon ("Bible") for the sole reason that they were falsely attributed (e.g., The Book of Enoch was known not to be written by Enoch and the Apocalypse of Peter, likewise, not written by Saint Peter) suggest that the Early Church had speculated that God's Judgment is not the end. After a time, the prayers of the Saints in Light (hopefully, you and me, for example!) will ask that those who are in torment be shown mercy- and released from judgment.

The Catholic doctrine of Purgatory is related, but not exactly the same.

That harkens back to what I had written about Abraham, and his unused Altars, and to God in not taking Isaac's life. Abraham proved that God was merciful, and God proved that Abraham was merciful. A dangerous start to the greatest relationship. The danger was necessary-- Righteous could have been sacrificed to atone for the guilty, but Abraham said, "No!" Innocent could have been slaughtered for obedience, but God said, "No!"

Justice cannot exist without atonement.

Let' say that someone murdered my children (no one did). No punishment atones. Justice has its demands, but justice cannot always (or even often) restore. So, justice, even when present, by itself is inadequate.

Now let's say it is after the Resurrection and my children have been restored to me-- so full is the resurrected life, that no loss in this life can diminish. With all which had been lost, having then been restored, atonement is perfect, and so only justice remains.

So, what does justice demand of a soul who has rejected the Christian faith because it was imperfectly offered? I say justice requires nothing of that soul. Likewise, no soul is in peril for having never heard of Christ Jesus.

If God seeks a soul-- God will have it-- even if that soul does not seek God-- or even know to seek Him (the very point of Francis Thompson's poem, I mentioned before). That is not justice-- that is Love. God will seek any soul in peril-- whether He reveals Himself to that person or not. If a person is doubting God, or even declaring that they have no evidence of God's existence-- God knows why, and God understands-- even if a tyrannical Christian does not.

Our mission is to tell person that there is hope-- and give reason for that hope. Our mission is not to make demands of others.

I'm a christian and believe in the nativity story. So that being said, Jesus in my opinion is an alien. I think like us (humans) there could be more than one kind and from different places, so it really wouldn't affect my beliefs any. And I suppose we would be aliens to "them".

Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by Frira
That is, indeed, a anthropocentric statement which leaves little or no wiggle room-- no matter the intelligence of any species other than the human one. The least intelligent human (Christian or otherwise-- by my learned opinion, and I know I'll get flack for saying so) has the same hope-- of a deifying unity with God after the resurrection of the dead-- that promise is not extended to any other creature.

Just curious about the "Christian or otherwise" part of your post.

edit on 23-11-2011 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

Standing me up so target practice may commence?! Ha!

Yes. The problem with the Church is not God-- the problem with the Church is that it is made up of humans.

So, if the Church teaches wrongly, or if the Church judges unjustly, or if the Church uses illicit means to coerce-- then the Church has failed and others are right to reject it. God being just, knows all of that.

I am not alone in believing that what Christ Jesus is quoted as saying in Matthew 25 (the part about sheep and goats, and what follows about the works of non-believers and the lack of works by believers) is indicative of the salvation of Non-Christians-- and the perilous judgment which may still await believers if their trust is their faith as lorded over others.

Some texts which the Early Church read, but which were not included in the Canon ("Bible") for the sole reason that they were falsely attributed (e.g., The Book of Enoch was known not to be written by Enoch and the Apocalypse of Peter, likewise, not written by Saint Peter) suggest that the Early Church had speculated that God's Judgment is not the end. After a time, the prayers of the Saints in Light (hopefully, you and me, for example!) will ask that those who are in torment be shown mercy- and released from judgment.

The Catholic doctrine of Purgatory is related, but not exactly the same.

That harkens back to what I had written about Abraham, and his unused Altars, and to God in not taking Isaac's life. Abraham proved that God was merciful, and God proved that Abraham was merciful. A dangerous start to the greatest relationship. The danger was necessary-- Righteous could have been sacrificed to atone for the guilty, but Abraham said, "No!" Innocent could have been slaughtered for obedience, but God said, "No!"

Justice cannot exist without atonement.

Let' say that someone murdered my children (no one did). No punishment atones. Justice has its demands, but justice cannot always (or even often) restore. So, justice, even when present, by itself is inadequate.

Now let's say it is after the Resurrection and my children have been restored to me-- so full is the resurrected life, that no loss in this life can diminish. With all which had been lost, having then been restored, atonement is perfect, and so only justice remains.

So, what does justice demand of a soul who has rejected the Christian faith because it was imperfectly offered? I say justice requires nothing of that soul. Likewise, no soul is in peril for having never heard of Christ Jesus.

If God seeks a soul-- God will have it-- even if that soul does not seek God-- or even know to seek Him (the very point of Francis Thompson's poem, I mentioned before). That is not justice-- that is Love. God will seek any soul in peril-- whether He reveals Himself to that person or not. If a person is doubting God, or even declaring that they have no evidence of God's existence-- God knows why, and God understands-- even if a tyrannical Christian does not.

Our mission is to tell person that there is hope-- and give reason for that hope. Our mission is not to make demands of others.

That makes sense to me.

reply to post by Klassified


What's politics got to do with the truth?

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Klassified

 

What's politics got to do with the truth?

Are you talking about this sentence from my post?

Depends on how liberal the christian is.

If so, I wasn't talking about politics. Some christians are much more liberal in their theology than others. That was all I was talking about.