Pledge of Allegiance is BRAINWASHING!

reply to post by beezzer


so two wrongs make a right?
if you cant understand what kind of behavior repeating the same thing without thought everyday at the same time for your entire life encourages then you are beyond help

feel free to respect the flag in some other way....make it more grandiose even! go big man show your pride let people know you care....... however .....its probably not a good idea to do the same exact thing over and over and over and over and over again with little to no critical thought actually given to what it is youre doing

reply to post by Imlookingthroughyou


Toward what end? To brainwash there must be a goal. Please let us know what the largest demographic, Boomers, were brainwashed to do. Please don't tell us "destroy Social Security". Personally, I was brainwashed to drink any brand of Scotch with the word "Glen" in it.


Peace...........yak055h

reply to post by yak055h


in this case its allegience for the flag..... now i dont know if you know this but the flag has changed over the years
so this is about the same as saying i vow to uphold the current state of affairs
it also encourages mindless regurgitative behavior in general making people more susceptible to any sort of repetitive conditioning

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

*snort*
Brainwashing my a**!

reply to post by capninsano240


Wow, the flag has changed? It still doesn't have 48 stars as when I was in school? Do you feel that statement was necessary? Insults instead of debate makes any point irrelevant and pathetic.

yak055h

I stopped saying the pledge in the 5th grade. I thought about the words I was being made to say and realized I was way too young to be pledging my allegience to anything. I tried to explain that to other people as I was going through school and got all kinds of reactions ranging from "good point" to "you commie pig! you and your kind are a plague on our society!!"

I do not agree with requiring the pledge of allegience in schools. I find it inappropriate and irrelevant. But then, I believe that words matter and people should not pledge their allegience to anything until they are fully aware of what that means to them on a personal level.

Also, pledging allegience has nothing to do with learning, so seems a bit out of place anyway.

Independence Day fireworks show was good enough for pride in country and celebrating it. The Pledge, to a flag, was just a bit too much nationalism being a daily event. In my school days there wasn't any choice to opt out of saying it and doing the whole routine. To me it is kind of like saying a dinner blessing, which was not a custom I had to endure until my step-father arrived. That struck me as making meals a sort of ritual sacrifice - my opinion, take it for what you will.

Adding "under God" to the Pledge turned it into a prayer and also seemed to add justification to whatever mis-deeds the US cared to commit worldwide. I was in school when Kennedy was assassinated and though for a few weeks seemed a huge tragedy it wasn't long before many of us saw it for the crooked conspiracy it was, and that didn't make me any more proud to be American - in fact it instilled my first doubts. 9-11 was even more obvious a contrived event. That is what prompted me to pack-up and leave the US, too old to fight the system effectively.

I'm not sure for how long school children have been reciting the Pledge as a daily routine but I'm guessing it helped permit those generations that blindly let the US sell-out its principals to the banksters and corporate leaders. I began waking up many years ago, around the end of 1963 and was vocal throughout the 60's, but my voice was drowned-out by the super-patriots who refused to acknowledge the country's nefarious deeds.

America, love it or leave it. I still love it but I still left it. We can be friends but we can no longer live together. I needed my freedom.

Originally posted by capninsano240
reply to post by yak055h

 

in this case its allegience for the flag..... now i dont know if you know this but the flag has changed over the years
so this is about the same as saying i vow to uphold the current state of affairs
it also encourages mindless regurgitative behavior in general making people more susceptible to any sort of repetitive conditioning

It also helped cause a whole mindless generation to rush to the front and stop some "kind of "evil guys" who wanted to toy with the people of the world, and make them work toward their humorously "evil" goals and mindless murder of millions of people of the Jewish and other kind of objectionable persuasions.

It meant enough to help prevent the same delightfully silly debacle in the early 1900's.

I guess, being an old guy, I don't understand why most of the folks posting here, and the gentle person starting this thread are in such a hurry to tear down and belittle things that have been integral to, and a way of life in our country for such a long time. Things that mean you love your country, and care enough to step up and die so that others can live the kind of life they want. Even if it is one in which, nothing matters, like the current ones seem to do. Call it mindless brainwashing if you really need to tear something American, down.

I know there are unsettled issues, problems, survival issues, and others that I don't know of to list here. I'm not omniscient. Unfortunately, when you begin to tear down the things that have been near and dear to so many people, parts of our national character and character building, and you haven't added anything useful to take its place, or when you cry about your view of issues, but don't give even a hint of what you would do to change it, you place yourself in the social position of being a wienie to a lot of people who aren't involved with you and your issue(s).

Yeah I'm old, 63. Yeah I have a tattoo. Yeah, I'm one of those God Damned fools who went to South Viet Nam, because he believed in what he was doing. Yes, I have a house with property, that will be mine in four more years. Yes, my wife has a car, a 3 year old Impala. Yes, I have an eleven year old Corvette, and a motorcycle. I also worked hard, very hard, at times for a life's benefits. And I am not saying that you need to buckle down or anything like that. And it's certainly not to put anyone down . All this was just to define me as someone who's establishment, and easy to hate.

Some of the things that bother me are that all the things you are ripping out of life, God, Christ, Pledge of Allegiance, stopping people from crapping on the American Flag, putting others first, giving each other a reason to live, helping each other maintain their beliefs and lifestyles, even if they are different, and on and on, do not seem to be helping in the general scheme of things.

NO, I won't condemn anyone for their beliefs or lack thereof... It's just an observation that as you take away from the human condition (American in this particular instance), and don't replace it with something equally as good or better, you take away the human will. That includes the will to excel, the will to dream, the will to take chances, the will to be a cut above the rest of there world (America in this particular instance), and the will to live at a level of free, independent, and living. The current attitudes seem to be concurrent with achieving levels of mediocrity not seen since before the American Revolution.

I'm old. I've achieved my goals, but I'm not selfish enough to turn my head or heart on folks who are different or think differently. I just feel that someone ought to point to things s/he questions, hopefully in a way that doesn't piss everyone off.

I apologize for those I've pissed off, but not for my beliefs. I now stand open and ready to receive insults and putdowns.

Sincerely,

Dan

Yes god forbid people people understand that this is a nation that is a republic and our rights come from God not Government and every man woman and child that lives in this country is created equal

Yes they are evil incarnat wonder what's next buring flags?

No wait too late.

Meh

reply to post by Imlookingthroughyou


Apparently as brainwashing it didn't do a very good job. And to the Republic (not democracy) for which it stands. One nation under God ( not TPTB) with liberty and justice for all (not just us ) None of it stuck apparently with anyone.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by capninsano240
i consider it in unethical if done in public in a large group in such a way that encourages any kind of behavior what so ever from other people

you are more than welcome to do anything you want in private but do not try to exert control over other people k?

edit on 20-11-2011 by capninsano240 because: (no reason given)

Explain.

Why do you consider it unethical?

What kind of bahaviour does it encourage?
Patriotism?
Pride in America?

If OWS can do potty in public, then by god! I and many others can show pride in our country.

Will wait for your reply.

That really is the heart of the matter, isn't it?

I was thinking in terms of "toleration." Last night I heard bit of a radio program talking about how toleration is all well in good, but lines need to be drawn. The average German citizen in 1939 might be viewed as exercising "tolerance" of ideas with which many did not agree; but that was a time to stand up and declare, "No! This is not us!"

The Pledge is not an issue with me, but there is something that troubles me with it-- talking to a flag is pretty weird. I imagine bowing before a flag and asking, "What is your bidding, my lord?"

Because we are (or at least, are supposed to be) a representative republic, my allegiances are fleeting as far as the government goes.

Perhaps, I do consider it unethical to ask me to say that Pledge, as a child. It is so because my word means something, and it is my conscience which dictates my actions and my allegiances. Trusting teachers in first grade was a given-- and their asking me to give my word without first discussing the consequences is manipulative-- NOT "brainwashing" but certainly indoctrination.

In uniform, saying the Pledge in assembly was one thing because there was a context which includes a chain of command of like-minded men and women-- most of whom I had reason to trust. But in first grade... What is the context?

You have to understand just how insane the pledge is to people outside of America. You don't realise it's lunacy because you grew up with it.

To everyone else in the free world it's incredibly frightening and really rather shocking. Something you would expect to see in a nation of slaves like North Korea, certainly you don't expect to see it in a supposedly free nation like America.

No question it's brain washing.

I wonder how many rights the children are giving up when they recite the pledge?

How legally binding is it and to what?

Originally posted by NadaCambia
You have to understand just how insane the pledge is to people outside of America. You don't realise it's lunacy because you grew up with it.

To everyone else in the free world it's incredibly frightening and really rather shocking. Something you would expect to see in a nation of slaves like North Korea, certainly you don't expect to see it in a supposedly free nation like America.

No question it's brain washing.

Allow me to disagree. I am also from the Old World and even if we don't pledge to the flag we have all sorts of weird songs to recite.
Is it brainwashing? Of course it is, someone already mentioned the power of words in a group and neurons, but you see if you ask an African teen, born in England about his country he will first state his African heritage and second his English nationality. The same thing with a Moroccan teen born in Sweden.

On the other hand if you ask an American born Chinese teen the same question it will ALWAYS be first American citizen and only then his heritage (in this case Chinese) So i guess the pledge is working for the USA. Brainwashing in a good way so to speak, a sense of belonging.

I stopped saying the pledge of allegiance in the 8th grade because I found it to be a tad bit too Hitler Youth for my taste.

Everyone looked at me weird. Like why isn't she standing up and saying the pledge?

I told my mom I stopped saying it and she called me unamerican and that it "wasn't right to not say the pledge".

I didn't care.

reply to post by Imlookingthroughyou


Well, I have to agree that it is sort of funny that in a country that values individualism so much that you start out every day with something that seems like it belongs in a 3rd world police states. Then again there was a time when most people had pride in being an American (and not the type of pride that you see to often which is more akin to "I love this country but I hate it for these reasons because it doesnt conform to my personal beliefs" sort of like michelle obama loving all the things she got from being an American but not being proud until her husband was president). I have to say though this is another tin foil hat response that we are being brainwashed. First off, can you really believe no one else has ever thought of this. and I mean come on, once people get past grade school how many American kids really take it seriously. I remember when I was in high school and it became cool to stop saying the pledge because "I cant support a country who supports/ doesnt support (insert obscure cause your older sibling in college told you about)". Id say this is a fail

Hey people, do some basic research please!

The Pledge of Allegiance was created by a Christian Socialist named Francis Bellamy in 1892 and adopted in 1942.

Simple wiki search

Bellamy's original Pledge read as follows:[6] I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Students swearing the Pledge on Flag Day in 1899 The Pledge was supposed to be quick and to the point. Bellamy designed it to be recited in 15 seconds. As a socialist, he had initially also considered using the words equality and fraternity[5] but decided against it - knowing that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans.[7]

An early version of the salute, adopted in 1892, was known as the Bellamy salute. It started with the hand outstretched toward the flag, palm down, and ended with the palm up. Because of the similarity between the Bellamy salute and the Nazi salute, developed later, President Franklin D. Roosevelt instituted the hand-over-the-heart gesture as the salute to be rendered by civilians during the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem in the United States, instead of the Bellamy salute. Removal of the Bellamy salute occurred on December 22, 1942, when Congress amended the Flag Code language first passed into law on June 22, 1942.[14]

So let's do a recap here:

1) Socialist origins.
2) Nazi salute originally.

I am going to put this down as totally un-American and yes, it is brainwashing.

Read them and weep.
It has National Socialism written all over it.

Originally posted by mnmcandiez
I stopped saying the pledge of allegiance in the 8th grade because I found it to be a tad bit too Hitler Youth for my taste.

Everyone looked at me weird. Like why isn't she standing up and saying the pledge?

I told my mom I stopped saying it and she called me unamerican and that it "wasn't right to not say the pledge".

I didn't care.

edit on 11/20/2011 by mnmcandiez because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/20/2011 by mnmcandiez because: (no reason given)

Read my post above. Your instincts were correct, it is national socialism.

Funny how the people promoting it claim "patriotism" but at the same time this is exactly the mentality that is eroding the Constitutional Liberty that our nation was founded upon. I am sure the Nazis, Soviets, Red Chinese, etc all believed they were big time patriots as well.

reply to post by beezzer


Children in public schools are FORCED to say it. Your argument is pointless and invalid as usual.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Like I said before I think its out of place....but as it has developed I dont think its evil or there is something behind it. If anyone actually really takes it that seriously thats fine for them but most people just do it every morning because its part of the routine just like getting on the school bus. I would be very very surprised to see any kid older than grade school say they felt like they loved America more after saying it. Its not brainwashing if it has no effect. And I understand the problems with the nazi ties but other than that there isnt anything wrong I can see behind it. If you dont wanna say it dont say. 9/10 times no one will say anything and the one time they do its usually just an over zealous teacher and nothing will come of it.