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ATS what is your opinion on the healthcare system in America? Be painfully honest.

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posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 03:03 AM
reply to post by Unvarnished

I think that free healthcare would be ideal, I just don't see any way to make it practical. A state sponsored system sounds good on paper, but at the end of the day costs eventually get out of control, and corruption becomes rampant. It'd be great if we could manage it effectively over the long term, but in practice that's extremely difficult to do.

Unfortunately, I think the culture that dictates that everyone must be treated regardless of ability to pay is flat out wrong. This pushes costs onto other people, and given the cost and nature of recent medical advances, I don't think that it is fundamentally possible to provide the same quality of care to everyone ad infinitum. Not everyone can be the 6 million dollar man, if that makes any sense. At some point, it becomes too difficult and too expensive to keep trying to piece everyone back together to the extent science currently allows. Perhaps in the future this will change-- but entitlement mentality that is so pervasive lately is unsustainable given man's nature and resources. (This is where the euthanasia craziness over Obama's healthcare bill came from btw. Eventually such measures would be necessary should the state control healthcare, even if Obama has no intention of implementing them.)

I know it sounds terrible, but I don't think healthcare is a human right. Nothing that requires the work of your fellow man can possibly classified as a right IMO. If I were a doctor, I'd do my best to treat everyone-- those able to pay and those unable-- but I don't think that I (or anyone else) can rightfully decide that anyone else must do the same.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 03:14 AM
Went in last year to the ER for 8 stitches on my knee

$750 dollar bill

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 04:05 AM
reply to post by muse7

That's what happens when so many people don't pay their bill. They stick you with an even bigger bill-- then hope you'll pay-- although the chances you'll be able to decrease every time they kick the can down the road.

I had X-Rays of my chest and shoulder plus a check up and blood test recently. I got to sit in a massage chair, watch a flat screen TV with relaxing crappola on it, and the bill was $400. A lot, but honestly I was surprised it wasn't more.

You got screwed because it was an emergency visit-- that's the kind that typically doesn't get paid for. I feel that there should be a way to dispute the cost of something like that, however. $750 is pure usury for a couple stitches. It pretty much defies any concept of reasonable. I've heard you can typically talk them down on something like that. They're just betting they can screw you.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 05:01 AM
reply to post by Unvarnished

I can't beleive you all willingly live under a system which forces people to pay thousands of dollars for a routine hospital visit, or any other medical care. It is is sick, and inhuman.

This was in Canada:

I got food poisoning last Sunday, failed to keep hydrated due to vomiting and diarrhea, and had to go to the hospital early the next morning. I saw a triage nurse within 5 minutes of arriving, waited for 45 minutes, and was taken to an examination room. I waited five more minutes, and saw a nurse who did a brief examination; blood, urine, and stool samples, and ten minutes later I saw a doctor. They gave me a glucose IV + a saline/Gravol drip for the nausea, (took an hour) wrote me a prescription for probiotics to repopulate my intestinal flora, and sent me on my way.

I left the house at 5:30 AM, and was home in bed by 9. I took a day off from school, recuperated, was shaky for a few days but otherwise fine, and got on with my life.

The hospital visit/treatment cost $0, and the prescription was $18.

And before you go and say: "Well, Canada has higher taxes to pay for its socialized medicine" Please bear in mind that Canada has a lower corporate tax rate (which encourages industry), and a higher personal income exemption for low-income earners than the United States does: I actually pay less taxes than I would if I lived and made the same amount of money in the United States.

Also please consider that the province I live in (Alberta) has a 'problematic' health-care system that is viewed as one of the worst in Canada, and in need of repair.

What do I think of the American health-care system?

If you're a millionaire, you have access to the best treatment in the world. If you're lower-middle class like me, you have lower quality access than 38 other countries - including every industrialized nation in the world other than the United States.

Health care costs account for (and eat up) close to 40% of your GDP, and your people are sicker than in every other developed nation.

What would my visit to the hospital have cost me in the United States, even if I was partially covered by insurance?

I'll let you fill in the blanks.


You guys have a lot of work to do, and you best get on it.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 05:10 AM
reply to post by RedBird

One major reason Canada and other countries with socialized healthcare are able to function so well is that they enjoy all the benefits of the fact that the US has to pay so much. The US pays for the major innovations in healthcare today, and the rest of the world basically freeloads off the new technology. Not that I blame them, but that's how it is. Last I heard we were even subsidizing the exportation of our drugs.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 05:29 AM
I have never been treated in the US but I have experienced the advertising frenzy of anything health related whilst visiting there several times. There is an astonishing amount of money being sucked out of the US population and feeding the healthcare industry. I can only say that thank christ for Aneurin Bevin and the UK NHS.

For all its flaws I would never ever ever in a trillion years in the maddest moment ever want to replace the NHS with a private care system. No matter what happens to me I know I will get treated no matter how severe and I never have to worry about paying for it.

With a private system you are asserting that money is more important than pain. In my opinion that is an immoral stance and for anyone who believes in Jesus Christs's teaches (very high in the US) totally wrong.

We do have problems (as you do !) but sometimes these are exaggerated for political purposes and more often than not a sick child is added to the mix! So a hefty pinch of salt is needed at times.

One thing I do see worldwide is that the more modern a country is the more it leans towards a free-for-all at the point of delivery health service. Well all except the richest nation on the planet. rather ironic really.

edit on 20/11/11 by malcr because: spelling

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Unvarnished
Hello all! I am a second year medical student and I was just wondering what everyone's point of view on the healthcare system is here in America? I would tell you all that I disagree with these pharmaceutical companies making drugs unaffordable to the point where people end up in a situation where they have to pay to live. I am really looking forward to everyone's responses. I hope all is well!

The older small town doctor, who was actually in practice to "help people" has now been forced to relingquish control of his small office practice over to the nearest large hospital. Small town pharmacy's have been taken over by the super chain pharmacies.

Seems its all about control these days.

edit on 20-11-2011 by kimsie because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-11-2011 by kimsie because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 08:10 AM

Originally posted by Unvarnished
reply to post by ElizaAshdene

Thank you for your story, I agree with you. Although I am being trained in the allopathic doctrine, I have noticed that all they want us to do is prescribe medications without actually caring for the patient. I remember I learned in class that it was somewhat ethical to buy a medication for a patient who cannot afford a drug, and I would love to challenge this. Majority of the problems can be cured with simple diet unless it is a crazy infection or genetic problem. Thank you for sharing your story. It seems that you have been coping very well with fibromyalgia, and I implore you. I hope all is well!

This is so true.
We take food for granted, and base our consumption of food on how good it tastes, not realizing that every piece of food we put into our bodies can have a similar chemical reaction as many drugs.
Diabetes for example can be controlled by weight loss and diet.,
People on various unnecessary prescriptions are slowly being poisoned like ginea pigs as these chemicals destroy the livers, kidneys and other organs inside their bodies.

Many times the best treatment is actually to council the patient on eating habits and lifestyle changes.

There are many many holistic treatments to many ailments but it takes a little more "will power" than just easily popping a pill.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 08:13 AM
reply to post by Unvarnished

ATS what is your opinion on the healthcare system in America? Be painfully honest.

Quite simply, the current system is failing us and the proposed remedy, Obamacare, will fail as well.

Here's the big picture:

Healthcare operates as part of the free market. This means that there is that market and the consumer. When allowed to interact without interference, the concept works fine because the market will not commit suicide by pricing itself out of business. Costs would balance along lines determined by what the market could pay for service.

Consumer/Patient >----$----> Market/Physician

But in the case of the current situation in the US, this natural function is disabled because there is a third-party leeching both ends dry.

The health insurance industry has positioned itself squarely between the market and the consumer. In a nutshell, you just can't go the the doctor anymore without negotiating with this middleman industry. So, the consumer pays more for healthcare because they not only are paying the physician (etc.) for service rendered, but also supporting that third party middleman industry.

Consumer/Patient >----$$----> Insurance Industry >----$----> Market/Physician

The solution is as simple as it would be painful; eliminate all health insurance and return healthcare to a cash-for-service transaction.

There would have to be some initial buffering from some quarter but the eventual outcome would be that the market would re balance itself according to what the consumer could afford. Again, the system is not suicidal so we know with a good degree of confidence that this would be the final result. The painful part would be the surgery that extracted health insurance from the patient because just like any leeching, non-symbiotic relationship, yanking the bloodsucker off would hurt like hell.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 08:32 AM
I can honestly say the health care system in this country is greatly flawed. I think we (the govt) should look at successful systems and use what is learned. I believe it is England that has a great program. Guess pay a hear me out...

You pay 10 cents on every purchase that is not food or crap there's something else don't remember, gas that's it...Anyway this pays for all medical and all pharmaceuticals. This is one tax people don't mind paying....they know where the money goes and it greatly benefit them too.

Go to the hospital, go to your's covered.

An example of craziness-- last July 3rd... a friend at a party (who normally doesn't drink) ended up drinking enough to pass out. This freaked out the host who called the rescue squad..... well 10 hours later and 2 bags of fluids.. she now owes the hospital over $5000 dollars. For less then a night on their bed and fluid that cost $8. Crazy.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 08:35 AM
Unless you have the best healthcare policy money can buy, expect to lose all your retirement savings if you have a life threatening illness or need assisted living in your later years. Healthcare should be a basic human right for any person needing life saving medical procedures, or living out the rest of your golden years without having to lose your home or your kids inheritance. It shouldn't be based upon your ability to pay to preserve your life. If you're rich, you have a better chance of living a longer life than those who have less? What's wrong with that picture?

Honestly, I think instead of having an illegal income tax, there should be a percentage of income paid by everyone in this country that would go into a healthcare fund. Who should control that fund is another question all together. Whoever would be responsible in controlling that fund should be subject to strict oversights to prevent spending abuse and political access.

If our government has the power to start wars and put our population and our family members who serve in the military at risk, than they should be responsible for the human life they can put in harms way.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 08:38 AM
I pay a co-pay of over 200.00 per month for health and dental with a school system. I'm getting ready to enroll in AFLAC to ensure additional costs for MRI's and various scans are ever needed. Even with as much as I pay, these types of exams are only partially covered. One MRI can cost thousands of dollars out of pocket even with standard medical insurance. I have the best coverage that my school system offers and even then I would be out quite a lot of money if I ever get seriously ill.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 08:50 AM
reply to post by Unvarnished

Are you sure you can handle the Truth? My husband was given conflicting medications which caused rhambomialisis. The Dr. was asked if meds could cause the symptoms he was suffering.The Dr. denied that the meds were the cause off the cuff,no tests,just" it ain,t the problem". Then proceeds to prescribe more meds to a patient with a compromised liver and one kidney meds that should not be used in this situation. Then my husband is sent to two hospitals where the Dr.s ignore mention of all of this, give more meds that eventually destroy my husbands only kidney,resulting in a fatal heart attack. The day before he died, during a "team meeting" I was asked, "Can you tell us more about your husband so we can get to know him, what is he to his community, his family?" After the meeting it was mentioned that his kidney was not functioning well and atransplant might be needed, I replied that since I had two kidneys, giving one of mine would not be a problem. (At this point dialysis had not even been mentioned.) The next morning they call and say he took a turn for the worse last night, you need to come asap.We get half way there and get another call saying he's had a heart attack. He died that afternoon. My feeling is if I fall down just leave me alone until the twitching stops. The only Justice I see in this world is that sooner or later those involved will be treating each other.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 08:55 AM
There are two things I've noticed...

(1) - The quality of care can vary greatly depending on what insurance you have. For example, I really don't have too many complaints about my insurance. The provide pretty decent coverage. I do happen to work for a large firm. My friend works for a much smaller firm. He has the same carrier I do - but it is horrible for him. They don't want to pay for hardly anything.

(2) - Because of my parents are elderly I've noticed that ripping medicare off is a huge business.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 08:57 AM
I am retired and pay a pretty good chunk of change for insurance. I still have a big co pay...this is because the government has taken all the free enterprise out of health care...Even though I pay for my health care too many people do not...they rely on the government in one program or the other to pay for them...something for nothing.

People say free health care would be a good idea...I want to know how is it free? doesn't someone have to pay for it? Surely they do not mean that the government should steal more money from the working class to pay for 'FREE" healthcare. It is not the governments job to take care of people from cradle to grave...I do not belong to the government yet they act as though I am a slave to be worked for my wages then told to be happy with what I have left. Meanwhile people are fed, clothed, educated, provided healthcare for nothing, people who have never paid a penny tax....get government out of healthcare completely and the price will go down .

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 09:05 AM
To put it simply. I have health insurance and am afraid to go to the doctor because of the potential costs.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 09:43 AM
Too much over-prescribing, too much treating the symptom and not the cause, too much about money.

As for our health-care system in the way it's structured, it's a nightmare. A complete and total nightmare.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 09:55 AM
reply to post by sitsoncats

My embracing single-payer is 2-fold:

1. You get an automatic reduction in medical costs because all those expensive trips to the hospital that people can't afford and wind up declaring medical bankruptcy over now don't get pushed onto the ones who have insurance.

2. It's the same principle as working for a large firm. Insurance rates with larger companies are better and the coverages are better because you have a larger pot of people paying in to the system; there's more people to help cushion against the costs of the really sick. Now imagine this principle exploded to the point where we have millions and millions of people paying into that system AND that system doesn't have to turn a profit.

People talk about right and blah-blah. My embracing of it is from a utility and self-interest standpoint for the most part.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 10:02 AM
To have medical care offered at profit is morally wrong. To allow a system that bankrupts families and our nation is morally wrong. It is part of the beast, and we as a nation, sit quietly by as tens of millions of our own citizens suffer financial catastrophe simply to support huge profis of ravenous wolves.

posted on Nov, 20 2011 @ 10:14 AM
reply to post by Anthropormorphic

I am not sure yet, maybe GP, infectious disease, or neurology, I have to take my boards in a few months and hopefully see how they go.

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