Riot Police batter Iraq war vet (rupture his spleen) - Caught on camera

Originally posted by PrimalRed
Warning him and telling him repeatedly to move is not peaceful?

One is not required to follow an unlawful order.

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by PrimalRed
Warning him and telling him repeatedly to move is not peaceful?

One is not required to follow an unlawful order.

And then he beat the sh*t out of him with a baton when all the guy did was slowly step backwards.

The cop should have arrested him. He never should have assaulted him with a weapon like that. That cop ought to be fired and brought up on charges.

All of the violent confrontations and "riots" I've seen have been caused by the cops not the OWS protesters.

BTW - I come from a whole family of cops. Most NYPD, but two NY State Troopers and one NJ state trooper. This kind of crap gives all cops a bad name...

Originally posted by PrimalRed
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

No attempt was made to peacfully subdue him.

Warning him and telling him repeatedly to move is not peaceful?

I've seen guys who've commited felonies treated better by the police, even after they try to run away. Please tell me you don't think that several dozen police officers in riot gear couldn't subdue him without beating the crap out of him. I mean really... one guy in a T-shirt and shorts against several dozen fully armored police officers and they couldn't arrest him without beating him with billy-clubs.

Come on man... lets try to keep things in perspective here....

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
Professor Michael Avery is probably extremely happy to see this veteran beat up. I'm sure if it was a veteran at a Tea Party rally, most of the OWS crowd would be cheering as well. Funny how they like veterans, ONLY when it suits them. Normally, they'd be calling him a "war criminal".

Professor Michael Avery - Screw the soldiers

edit on 18-11-2011 by navy_vet_stg3 because: (no reason given)

Define 'they' - The last time I checked the OWS were people from all walks of life. With many backgrounds ranging from students, doctors, captains, ex military, bikers, soldiers, lawyers, labourers etc.

Unless you believe they operate under one borg-like consciousness?

Originally posted by PrimalRed
I love that this crowd puts the vet on a pedestal for being in a war but at the same time thinks everyone is equal. Hey OP, would you be saying the same thing if the protester was muslim? Would you be wishing the police good luck?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

His religion does not concern me. I see someone standing up against tyranny and the paid thuggery of a corporate driven police-force.

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
Wow... seriously? He's an American citizen who was operating within his legal right to protest. He posed no threat to the police other than standing in defiance. No attempt was made to peacfully subdue him. He was beaten even after he was rendered incapable of resisting. He was denied proper and immediate medical attention.

It's people like you who have given away our constitutional rights...

(sigh) I didn't say what happened wasn't tragic. I said I had little to no sympathy. All these arguments that note he was peacefully protesting or just exercising his rights fail to consider something I've been trying to say for days now. Cops are people too. Cops feel FEAR like everyone else.

He's a vet, advertising the fact openly at a protest. Okay, so far so good. That is exercising his rights. Then he stands firm to the line of police in protest. Okay, still good! A sight to be proud of, actually. I've also never said that everything about the incident was bad.

Then the police line moves....advances...and he remains in defiance of lawful orders to move and be somewhere OTHER than obstructing the direct line of march for the line of heavily armed riot police. Right there is where it changed from very important rights of protest to unlawfully obstructing and provoking a reaction by police. Every moment beyond that where he didn't actively de-escalate simply piled on the emotions and reaction that it WOULD lead to.

Now where does his being a Vet work into all this? Well, when that point was reached and it changed into his being an agitator and threat, the cops don't know if he was a cook in the mess hall or some former Delta or SEAL 6 operator with a real bad attitude problem and a violent streak. They DO know that either way, he's had more training than they have as police for hand to hand fighting, and unlike them in these times of ours, has probably killed for his country.

THAT means when they DO reach the point of DOING SOMETHING with a Veteran that has CHOSEN to so much as imply direct threat to police, they WILL act very strongly. It's not brutality from their side of it, it's quite possibly holding a tiger (Special Ops Vet, for instance) by the tail and knowing they may not go home that night once action starts...if they let go.

OWS and the Police BOTH desperately need to take a step back and look at the very same situations from the likely view and eyes of the other. Unless war in the streets is what people want, that moment to take perspective may go a long way toward ending some of the worst we're seeing happen, IMO.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


So, why didn't they just arrest him? All those cops in riot gear and they couldn't get one man to the ground and cuffed?

reply to post by studio500

If he wasn't doing what he was doing the incident wouldn't have happened.

So you're saying just do what you're told and you won't get hurt? ...If we don't protest we won't have anything to protest about? Do what we're told, lick the dirt and line up for crumbs?

FYI - The interests and people the police are protecting do WAAYYY worse things than "don't listen." They're destroying the planet, killing millions and stomping people into the mud just to make a buck.

Worth protesting, imo.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Cops feel FEAR like everyone else.

...and I can empathize with that emotion. I'm sure it's a very anxious feeling to suit up in full riot gear and make your way into the streets not knowing how the protestors will react. However, once the gentleman in question violated the law, properly trained officers would have taken appropriate action to subdue the person. As someone mentioned previously, there are so many options available before using the nightstick.

Regardless of the human emotions invloved, there is NO excuse for the beating those cops inflicted. LEOs are trained, or should be trained to overcome their initial emotional response and act appropriatly. If we allow them to violate basic constitutional rights as well as human rights based upon their emotional state than what's to stop them from just putting a bullet in someone's skull just because they were afraid?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

So, why didn't they just arrest him? All those cops in riot gear and they couldn't get one man to the ground and cuffed?

I'll meet ya half way on this Kali. On one hand, protesters in Oakland and the Bay Area, of ALL places, really need to ease up on anything that can predictably been seen to provoke or escalate with police.

On the other hand, I'll also agree that above all other cities and areas, Oakland and the Bay Area are most needy of citizen based review boards and truly transparent investigations into the actions, command and procedures of the police. There have, in all fairness to everyone, been just enough of these situations that are borderline at best and way OVER the line like infamous Berkeley incident to warrant relentless efforts to get to the bottom of it....and sooner would be better than later, I'm sure we can all agree.

Originally posted by studio500
I'm sorry but that "dude" got treated correctly by what is considered to be robust policing.

He was told to move several times and remained defiant. What did he expect was going to happen?
Did he think he was going to be handed a bunch of flowers, a handshake and a "it's ok friend, we're only playing" apology from the Police!

If he wasn't doing what he was doing the incident wouldn't have happened. No point crying after the event.

I could reply to that, but it would probably get me a warning or loose me another 1000 points so I'll just reply with a

A 3 time war veteran, peacefully protesting with no violence is beaten to the ground by the people he both pays to protect and has served to protect, it takes a very sick mind or 'one of them' to be of the opinion that he 'got treated correctly'

The video contained on the linked-page is disgusting. A prime-example of failed crowd-control by one over-vigilant and over-reactionary riot policemen directed against a civilian which was a non-existent threat.

Here's the logic:

You have a line of well-outfitted and armed riot control police moving slowly while making an audible cadence to "move," which was working on the single person (he was backing-up and not a threat.)

If only that one officer could have remained "cool-under-pressure," and not over-reacted, like a common terrorist.

Please bear-with-me by trying to understand how an unarmed civilian war veteran in shorts and tennis shoes complying with the "crowd-control" tactic presents a threat?

It would be apparent to most, that the "threat" here was indeed the over-zealous riot policeman whom over-reacted.

This is disgusting and it's certainly not what the general public pays for out of their tax dollars. There is a right way to do it and plainly the civilian wasn't a threat, as he was stepping-back and thus, complying with the intimidation techniques which were used. He didn't deserve to be beaten for any apparent reason.

Epic Fail on the part of the police and let me ask you over-vigilant riot policemen and women out there, "what is it going to take to make you realize you cannot use terrorist tactics on the general public before real death and violence is unleashed?"

With a single civilian, who is away from any large crowd or gathering, is not a threat, and this violates every single constitutional right an individual has, to just "be" no matter how close in-proximity they are to any line of riot police.

HE wasn't a clear or present danger and those commanders of the riot squad might need to be relieved of their post if they intend on ordering their squads to do what they did in the video.

A prime-example of over-vigilant indoctrination by propaganda of police officers. And if this is left to fester and not checked, it will become a "police state," complete with "storm-troopers," who never question orders and mindlessly run us all off a cliff.

Very sad and sickening at what propaganda and half-truths can bring into being and existence.

The "logic" which will be used to rebut this argument would be where the civilian could possibly be a "terrorist" with a bomb strapped to their body, but let me pose this fact that terrorists do not stand in-front of riot police and try to reason or protest to them, they simply explode. Plainly, this person did not have any kind of bomb strapped to himself due to what he was wearing.

I agree, this is very important. If we do not use the right of free speech to question those which could have an unfair majority with the use of any force as riot police should be questioned. Civilians aren't doing their part if they don't. It's our job to question distasteful tactics used by that crazed riot policeman. Either way it's torture to give-up a God-Given right which no state of government can take-away.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

So, why didn't they just arrest him? All those cops in riot gear and they couldn't get one man to the ground and cuffed?

I'll meet ya half way on this Kali.

On one hand, protesters in Oakland and the Bay Area, of ALL places, really need to ease up on anything that can predictably been seen to provoke or escalate with police.

On the other hand, I'll also agree that above all other cities and areas, Oakland and the Bay Area are most needy of citizen based review boards and truly transparent investigations into the actions, command and procedures of the police. There have, in all fairness to everyone, been just enough of these situations that are borderline at best and way OVER the line like infamous Berkeley incident to warrant relentless efforts to get to the bottom of it....and sooner would be better than later, I'm sure we can all agree.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I appreciate your gesture, but I can't meet you half-way on this. That cop broke the law, and we have seen many cops break the law over the past 2 months. You say don't provoke the police, I say screw these criminals with badges. You don't bow down and say ok go ahead and break the law, you don't mock a protester who took a beating and blame him for the cop breaking the law. He didn't make the cop break the law. He didn't make that cop commit assualt with a deadly weapon. He didn't make that cop violate the constitution. He stood there. He backed up, he never reached for a weapon, he never acted aggressively never made a verbal threat, he kept his hands visable and backed up as they approached. There is no justification here.

It's a clear-cut case of one riot control policeman being a "loose-cannon," and blind-fury of hysteria against a non-existent threat. This is a basic judgement-call event. No other policemen over-reacted and broke-rank to beat the civilian, did they?

No, they didn't. Those policemen conducted themselves with honor, the one that didn't is a liability to the squad and should be removed.

Apparently, logic would suggest, if a commander would have ordered any action to be taken, it would not have been to beat the civilian, but exactly the action taken by the others in the squad. NOT the singular action taken by a "loose-cannon."

This kind of subjugation fails horribly, as we have seen, and the intentions and policies of the ones in-charge, at the very least, demand to be questioned.

It seems as if more is lacking in Oakland than just civilian-oversight committees; and suggests impropriety, at the very least.

reply to post by trekwebmaster


They didn't stop or arrest the guilty cop either though, did they?

I for one, am waiting for the day the militia's get involved. Not to promote or escalate violence but as a deterrent to actions such as these. Much like they did in....was is Phoenix?

I think it's pretty obvious that unarmed protesters are powerless to stop police brutality, violations, etc. At least with armed militia standing by you would see a lot less police beatings and more cautious diplomacy.

reply to post by studio500


That is exactly the mind set of the cops on the street. You didn't get the h%ll out of here. So beat him up to the point of putting him in intensive care by rupturing his spleen and not giving medical treatment for 18 hours. The police are nothing and nobody they just think they are because they are allowed to get away with murder among other atrocities. Get out of that uniform and see what they have coming by TPTB who is cutting their paycheck. Blood thirsty Mercenaries it is getting shown over and over. The time is coming not far off it will be their houses they are thrown out of, it will be their bank accounts that all their money missing out of their bank accounts. It will be their pensions withdrawn and their insurance stopped payment on. What are they going to do then beat up and kill people because its fun?

Originally posted by studio500
I'm sorry but that "dude" got treated correctly by what is considered to be robust policing.

He was told to move several times and remained defiant. What did he expect was going to happen?
Did he think he was going to be handed a bunch of flowers, a handshake and a "it's ok friend, we're only playing" apology from the Police!

If he wasn't doing what he was doing the incident wouldn't have happened. No point crying after the event.

You're having a laugh! Surely? If the protester was breaking the law it was the cops duty to read him his rights and arrest him. Under no circumstances does the cop have the right to attack and beat up a civilian who is providing no danger to the police, himself or the public. That cop was annoyed because the protester was not doing what the cop told him to do even though there was NO law being broken. It was sheer facist arrogance.

I suspect your statement has more to do with your attitude to OWS than an absolute observation of what is right and wrong. If such a video came out of China or Russia or Syria or NK or any other of those oppressive countries you would say it was wrong.

It's time for the US to wake up. Your country has been stolen by the rich and powerful and they have the police to protect their interests. Your constitution is a meaningless piece of 250 year old paper.

Remember anti OWS once the OWS have been suppressed and jailed or killed it is your turn. This won't end until the rich and powerful have total control over ALL aspects of your society. This is not TPTP or NWO just plain old ordinary "king of the castle" mentality that has ruled over western countries for the last 2 thousand years. You are only their "friend and ally" until it's time for you to kiss their ass.

reply to post by mr-lizard



We desperately need either an officer that is a part of the anti-riot crew, or for someone to infiltrate them, and see what kind of brain washing, psychological B.S. is going on in the form of "pep-talks" prior to these incursions. Im sure you would find that the rhetoric is beyond disagreeable....