The start of the end of the Elite

reply to post by PrimalRed


Since when did I say this had anything to do with OWS? I was simply stating I observed the movement. Get a grip.
This has more to do with being able to be self sufficient than anything. Of course being able to save money and get us off of foreign oil has a second seat as well. I don't begrudge anyone making money. But when you rape their wallets, then I do have a problem with it. We have the technology to replace a lot of our fossil fuel usage, and yet we do not. Oil WILL run out, it's only a matter of time. Personally, if I can save oil by using solar/wind/whatever power, then that means I get to drive my car longer, and hopefully keep gas prices down. I am not a tree hugger, but I don't like being held hostage by any utility, especially an oil one!

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by PrimalRed

 

Since when did I say this had anything to do with OWS?

So after two months of OWS protests, thousands of posts about the elite and TPTB, I have come up with an idea that would start the change and bring the power back to us, literally.

It was the first line of the OP

reply to post by PrimalRed


Yes, that means I was observing the movement, not that I identified with it. I also posted TPTB and the Elite. Doesn't mean I identify with them either. I was simply stating that this would be one way to free people and their money allowing them to have more cash. Freeing them from being held hostage by utility and oil companies. This empowers people. Gives them a sense of control and freedom.

Don't see anything wrong with that.

So it is wrong for energy companies to make money but it is okay for solar panel companies to make money? I don't get it, it sounds like more green energy propaganda. Solar energy is a growing multi-billion dollar industry who exactly is this "elite" you speak of?

reply to post by PrimalRed


I don't begrudge anyone making money. But if you are going to tackle the bankers and the rest who have made their money via the FED, then you have to start somewhere. You have to start reducing the river of cash down to a stream. This is one way of doing it. There are many ways, and this is by far isn't the best, but it is a reasonable start.

Do I really have to explain this?

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by PrimalRed

 

I don't begrudge anyone making money. But if you are going to tackle the bankers and the rest who have made their money via the FED, then you have to start somewhere. You have to start reducing the river of cash down to a stream. This is one way of doing it. There are many ways, and this is by far isn't the best, but it is a reasonable start.

Do I really have to explain this?

edit on 11/18/2011 by haarvik because: (no reason given)

Yeah explain how contributing to a growing multi-billion dollar a year industry (that is also subsidized by tax dollars) fights anything.

reply to post by PrimalRed


So basically, you want a lesson in economics, right? You want a lesson in government corruption, right? So, here you go.

Oil companies are one of the biggest corruptors in DC. I would say it's a tie between them and the bankers. Of course some of them are a part of both. So, a new industry springs up. One that cuts back the cash going to both of them. In order to effect change, you must start at the root of the problem, which is corrupt politicians. How do you do this? You cut off their money train. Where is the easiest way to do this? Alternative power. Doesn't have to be solar, it could be wind and/or water. Solar is just the most main stream and least obtrusive in an urban setting.

So, if more people are using alternative energy, less oil is needed. Now the oil barons aren't reaping as much revenue, so their clout in DC starts to wane. By default, if the oil barons aren't generating as much cash, then the banks are not receiving as much, so their power starts to wane in DC. Once this starts to have an affect, people will realize there are other ways to do the same thing. It's a snowball affect.

Now I think I have explained this as well as it needs to be. If you still insist on pushing down the road I know you are trying to, I will just ignore and claim you as a troll.

Originally posted by PrimalRed

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by PrimalRed

 

I don't begrudge anyone making money. But if you are going to tackle the bankers and the rest who have made their money via the FED, then you have to start somewhere. You have to start reducing the river of cash down to a stream. This is one way of doing it. There are many ways, and this is by far isn't the best, but it is a reasonable start.

Do I really have to explain this?

edit on 11/18/2011 by haarvik because: (no reason given)

Yeah explain how contributing to a growing multi-billion dollar a year industry (that is also subsidized by tax dollars) fights anything.

Look, he's talking about replacing an energy structure that depends on a finite source with something that can't be monopolized. Do you realize the evil that is caused by power being monopolized? With independent energy, we could end world hunger, lower food costs, dismantle the oil industry (thus saving tons in taxes from subsidies), and put an end to several armed conflicts.

Energy monopolization (like banking) is not a legitimate business. It is evil and part of the root cause of many of humanity's problems. People who use tax dollars to drill for a natural resource and then get violently wealthy from it are not helping the world and are not in line with American values. It is not capitalism. It is nothing but another welfare case for rich industry.

ps - I think accusing Haarvik of identifying with OWS is hilarious, by the way. He's just smart, that's all.

reply to post by Cuervo


Oh you know me all to well!
Guess he should read some of posts, huh?

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by PrimalRed

 

You cut off their money train. Where is the easiest way to do this? Alternative power. Doesn't have to be solar, it could be wind and/or water. Solar is just the most main stream and least obtrusive in an urban setting.

Yeah because alternative energy is sooooo shunned in politics and they are really trying to keep it down...lol

So, if more people are using alternative energy, less oil is needed. Now the oil barons aren't reaping as much revenue, so their clout in DC starts to wane.

By default, if the oil barons aren't generating as much cash, then the banks are not receiving as much, so their power starts to wane in DC.

THEIR clout, and THEIR power which is just replaced by another.

Now I think I have explained this as well as it needs to be. If you still insist on pushing down the road I know you are trying to, I will just ignore and claim you as a troll.

Of course, it is easier to just say troll than to come up with coherent arguments.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Look, he's talking about replacing an energy structure that depends on a finite source with something that can't be monopolized. Do you realize the evil that is caused by power being monopolized? With independent energy, we could end world hunger, lower food costs, dismantle the oil industry (thus saving tons in taxes from subsidies), and put an end to several armed conflicts.

He has not mentioned ANY of that, you just added that in right now.

Energy monopolization (like banking) is not a legitimate business. It is evil and part of the root cause of many of humanity's problems.

Its logistics, you have a city with a million homes. Things would get crazy if you had thousands of different power companies all running different lines everywhere. While some homes could put solar panels on their roof many of them don't generate enough electricity to be self sufficient.

ps - I think accusing Haarvik of identifying with OWS is hilarious, by the way. He's just smart, that's all.

Read the first line of the OP

Primal has an agenda to push which is quite obvious if you read any of his 100 or so posts. The fact that he cannot tell the difference between energy "independence" through the process of one shot purchasing & maintenance (simplifying here) and energy dependence through perpetual/residual payment is beyond trolling. And that's not even addressing the effect it would have on lobbying and subsidies.

Now that does not mean I agree with the OP's idea, or believe it to be feasible. But if it's a achievable it would certainly put a dent in "TPTB"s power (won't eliminate their power entirely however IMO). Kudos for trying to come up with ideas to escape the trap and to make humankind stronger.

The problem is who would head the nonprofit? Name a name and you'll find them in a landfill a few days later.

reply to post by Cuervo


I must give you kudos for getting it. I have never heard of a war for solar/wind/water power, have you? Let's invade Columbia because they have a 1,000MW reserve of solar panels! But yes, you are right. More wars, especially in the recent past, have been over oil and natural resources. Take away the need for it and then what are you going to war over? This is why Iran is pushing for nukes. Oil. This is why Russia is friends with them, Syria and China. Oil. We invade other countries, Iraq, for...wait for it...OIL! Pretty easy argument if you ask me.

But alas, people keep trying to pin me to one group or the other. I'm a right winger, no he's a lefty, no right, no left. I'm neither. I am an American. My ideas stem from a deep love and respect for this nation. I espouse things that make sense and allow for prosperity for all, and the belief in our Constitution, our rights and our freedoms. I know I will never make sense to 100% of the people. But maybe, just maybe, one of these times I will hit on something that does resonate with a good majority and an idea will turn into a movement that does affect change.

I will not sit back and watch things go down the tubes. I will not sit by and argue over semantics while my country goes into the toilet. I will offer idea after idea in the hopes that one day we can return our country the the state our forefathers gave it to us.

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms


The problem is who would head the nonprofit? Name a name and you'll find them in a landfill a few days later.

edit on 18-11-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-11-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)

energy.sourceguides.com...

No bodies yet

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms


That is a good question.
I don't know much about forming non-profits, so that would have to fall on someone else, or I would have to be educated. Of course then you would also have to have chapters in each state so you could take action for those areas and deal with regional rules/permitting. I think it's doable, but it really would take someone who knows something about the NP arena to make it work.

Or just join one of the many nonprofits that already exist.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I put solar panels up two years ago and a wind turbine they payed themselves offin 14 months. Not only that I took a 6 month trip to Central America left everything off but let the power surge back into the grid so when I came home the electric company owed me over a 1000 dollars. They have to pay you the same rate they charge I am going to put up another turbine with that money and keep adding on untill I have a steady check comeing in from them.

Its good for the enviroment and it sticks it to them.

Whoa, wait a second...

HOW do you leave things so that the power will "surge back into the grid"? How do you do that, I dont understand what you mean by that.

Also, do you live in the U.S.?

I cannot imagine a U.S energy company paying you for squat for anything, so you must not be in the U,$.A I suppose.

Please let me know if you are in the US and if so, please say how you can let your power "surge back into the grid" to allow you to get compensated for it.

I am very curious on this as this is VERY interesting indeed if this is do-able. Thanks!

reply to post by HangTheTraitors


It's actually very easy. When they were away, they simply unplugged things not needed. More power being generated than used. If you are grid tied, then they have to buy your excess power. If you produce more than you need, then they have to pay you for that. Easy cheesy.

reply to post by HangTheTraitors


www.residentialsolarpanels.org...
there ya go.

reply to post by haarvik


The electric company told me that they would come out and install another meter. This meter would record the electricity going back into the grid as it does leaving the grid going into your house. I have seen it done in various places, it is pretty cool watching the meter run backwards, cha ching at every revolution. I have even thought about taking what panels I have and going ahead and hooking them up and have the electric company install the meter and just let it send whatever it is into the grid. If they would give me a 1 for 1 credit on what I use then I could be ok with that until I get a bigger setup.