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Should the government declare an end to all debts?

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posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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This country, the whole damned world for that matter, is drowning in debt. Not just personal debt but also government debt as well. Debt is threatening to seize up the whole world economy and there is no end in sight.

By some estimates, there is no possible way the US government can ever pay off its debts; there's just not enough money in existence to cover all of its liabilities. Debt is the enemy of the world financial system right now. Kinda ironic when you realize that all of the world's fiat currencies are based upon debt.

Maybe the best solution would be to hit the "RESET" button and start the whole game all over again, giving everyone a clean slate.



There Is No Such Thing as a Bank Loan

But there is one reform that should have been done, and eventually must be done: a Jubilee, that is, a system-wide debt forgiveness, the full or partial write-off of the loans which cannot, in any case, be paid. The Jubilee is mentioned in the Bible (Lev. 25: 8-55) but the custom actually goes back to the Babylonians, where the king would, from time to time, right the financial system by declaring an end to all debts.

Many, of course, will have doubts that we can draw any relevant lessons from the Bible about today’s sophisticated financial world. The neo-conservative Michael Novak, for example, notes that the economy of the biblical nations was “an economy of caravans and traders,” and biblical writers “did not envision questions of political economy we face today.” But while they may indeed have been camel-jockeys, that only means they were realists, since nothing is as real, or as ridiculous, as a camel. And as realists, they understood the greed that lies in the hearts of men, greed that impels them to manipulate markets. And when so much debt had been accumulated that the markets could no longer function, then mere realism compelled them to forgive debts to get the market going again

Distributist Review


Sure, I know there will be those who will complain that the debt was incurred by knowingly entering into a contract with the banks transferring the bank's money into a person's account in exchange for that person's promise to pay back the loan with interest. Problem is; the banks don't loan people money from inside their vaults. They create the money they loan us from thin air due to a government granted privilege. The government granted that privilege, they can take it away again.



Whatever one thinks of the system, and whatever arguments one advances for or against it, the indisputable truth is that the creation of money ex nihilo does not fall under the same moral description as when men lend each other their hard-earned money. The bank “loan” is not really a loan at all, not really a transfer of hard-earned assets, but a legal arrangement giving enormous monopoly powers to a relatively small group of men. Since the “right” rests only on positive law and not natural law, it may be changed by positive law. It is a monopoly granted, presumably, for the public convenience and necessity, and when it is no longer convenient—and certainly not necessary—it may be changed without harm to the natural law.



I'm sure some will argue that debt cancellation would be unfair to those who managed their money responsibly and didn't get themselves trapped in a web of debt. I would argue that these people are few and far in between and may even be a mythical creation of the conservative movement created in order to guard the interests of the banks.

The bottom line is that argument is based solely upon envy; those who fear debt cancellation are jealous that they didn't get caught up in the system when they had a chance. They are angry that they didn't get a chance to abuse the system for their own benefit. The vast majority of the people who are drowning in debt didn't get there by abusing the system to make themselves rich, they got there just trying to survive in a system that is rigged against them.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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How could they when they are the ones in debt? Its the banks and private corporations that would need to end debts; but they wont unless we make them, which is inevitable.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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We're not hitting a reset button for debt unless we also hit a reset button on savings. Otherwise the companies with obscene stashed money will simply profiteer from the same shady practices as before -- they would benefit from having no remaining financial obligations as much as most of us. Basically, they'd just be free to run the same game as before.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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No. Bankruptcy if you must, but even that should not be an option for irresponsibility. People cry about the "bailouts" well that applies to all people.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by WakeUpRiseUp
How could they when they are the ones in debt? Its the banks and private corporations that would need to end debts; but they wont unless we make them, which is inevitable.



The government granted the banks the privilege to create those debts by the magic of fractional reserve banking. The government gave them the privilege, they can, they SHOULD take it away.

There is no possible way to ever pay off all of the world's accumulated debt. The only realistic solution is to abolish those debts and reboot the world economy.

Maybe, with a fresh start, we can learn from our mistakes and come up with a more just economic order.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:07 PM
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I believe the OP is right, but in a slightly different sense. This will happen because it's inevitable and unavoidable. Math is a simple language and this writing on the wall is impossible to miss. However, it won't be the Government cancelling the debts as much as a total and uncontrolled collapse of the economies around the world.

That will qualify as an end to all debts, but about the only way it could happen. We'll see how this works in real life when they finally run out of stunts and tricks to avoid it.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:16 PM
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No because the only way to end the debts is to become it
and the only way to do that is a one world govt.
If you are a one world govt. then nobody owes you right?

think about it



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I believe the OP is right, but in a slightly different sense. This will happen because it's inevitable and unavoidable. Math is a simple language and this writing on the wall is impossible to miss. However, it won't be the Government cancelling the debts as much as a total and uncontrolled collapse of the economies around the world.

That will qualify as an end to all debts, but about the only way it could happen. We'll see how this works in real life when they finally run out of stunts and tricks to avoid it.


The system cannot continue as is. There must be a reset sometime. It may come as you say it; after a worldwide financial collapse followed by a period of anarchy.

I think an end to debt would be a better option. It creates a controlled collapse and reordering of the world financial order. It would let the banks know who is really in charge and they would be forced to be more careful in their lending practices in the future if they knew that the government could shut them down.

The threat of shutting down or cancelling debt would go a long way toward reigning in the power of the banks. Bailing them out only encourages them to be even more reckless in the future.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 



The government granted the banks the privilege to create those debts by the magic of fractional reserve banking. The government gave them the privilege, they can, they SHOULD take it away. There is no possible way to ever pay off all of the world's accumulated debt. The only realistic solution is to abolish those debts and reboot the world economy. Maybe, with a fresh start, we can learn from our mistakes and come up with a more just economic order.

Problem is if they changed the rules it would only apply to after the new rules came in, all debts before that are still under contractual obligation.
Governments are only puppets, its the PEOPLE that need to force the end of debts and our scam of a monetary system.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:26 PM
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Here's a thread that shows how the banks shifted their failures onto the backs of the world's people.

Death by Debt ... Charlie McGrath and the best explanation of OWS I have seen yet.




I say the best way to fight back is to declare an end to all debts. Banking should be seen for the criminal enterprise that it is and the criminals should be stripped of their assets. They have raped the people of the world for too long and their time of reckoning is coming.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
No because the only way to end the debts is to become it
and the only way to do that is a one world govt.
If you are a one world govt. then nobody owes you right?

think about it



We already have a One World Government; the banks rule over us all through debt. They control our government policies and we are all their slaves because we are forced to work to make money to pay our debts.

The banking cartels are the shadow world government. The only way we can ever hope to break free is to declare all their debts null and void.

Debt is the chains that binds the modern day slaves and the banksters are the slave masters. The sooner we realize this and fight for our freedom the better.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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People are to blame for their debt and should pay. You rolled up his & hers escalades into your home equity loan. You bought a half dozen rentals in hopes of cashing in. Whose fault is it? I know that the lenders are also to blame. When I got my home loan they sent me a package of material two inches think and stated that I needed to FEDEX it back to them no later than the next day or the application would be dropped. They had changed (increased) every single rate and fee from what we had discussed. The Countrywide person with whom I was dealing apparently was hoping that I would be too rushed to read and correct the material. So if I would have been stupid and not corrected the rates and fought back whose fault is that? Where the hell is personal responsibility? I know couples making $200k who walked away from payments on the rental houses they bought. There are college kids using their loans to buy concert tickets and weed. Maybe instead of letting greedy people walk on your debt we should bring back debtor's prison.
edit on 17-11-2011 by jcord because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Personal debt up to a certain point I could agree with.
A bailout for the little guy would have been great as we are the actual ones who are too big to fail.
But I could see the big corp getting away with murder in the way of gone pensions and payouts.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by jcord
 


Yeah, because the banks deserve to be paid back for the money they created out of thin air.

The money that requires no hard work to create. The money that only exists inside a computer databank somewhere. I'm sure they strained themselves creating that money and worked up a real sweat.

They deserve to be compensated for all the hard work they put into loaning you all that money they don't have and that doesn't exist. With massive interest of course.


The banksters deserve nothing but the gallows for what they have done to their fellow man.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


If you cannot man up and play by their rules, the do not play their game at all.

Two wrongs never make a right. You play into their hands when justify acting just like them.

There is no money. It is all made up to distract you while they finish whatever it is they are building.

So keep your integrity or you have already lost. "The man" is a lame excuse for self willed greed.

How many chess champs have you seen jump up in a fit of rage and throw the chess board at the wall? These "bankers" want chaos. When you react you lose the ability to be rational. When you you scream "I ain't paying these damn bills!" you are doing exactly what they want you to do. So, burn it all down and burn down with it. But remember, they have the microwave weapons and rods from God.
edit on 17-11-2011 by jcord because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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good idea but...
people still wouldnt try to save any money and within a day would be back in debt up to their eyeballs just so they could have the latest clothes and idiot device...



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


What world do you live in where most people dont handle their finances in a responsible way. Yes the banks may not and there are plenty of people who just went spend crazy because it was easy to do at one point. These are the same people who think its their God given right to get life long welfare or that they should be able to declare bankruptcy with no consequences when they get themselves into trouble with all of their fancy things. In my life experience most people do manage their finance in a responsible way because unlike the ultra rich or poor their is no bailout for us. Way to throw that on the conservatives and put no responsibility on anyone else. As for people being sore about not milking the system I have no idea where your coming from. I'd say people are more upset that while they took care of their obligations and didnt get brand new clothes or cars others think that all should be forgiven. We are tired of doing the right thing only to see others rewarded for doing bad, not because we want our piece



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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we wipe the slate, start at zero with everyone else.
at zero our government would pressure us to take a bank loan, probably from the rothschilds, and just unite our banking systems, and put us all in even worse debt in no time.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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Matthew 6:
9“This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name,

10your kingdom come,

your will be done

on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread.

12 Forgive us our debts,

as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,

but deliver us from the evil one.

I'm fairly certain in order for us to be free from debt, and for any 'reset' button to be pressed. We must first forgive those that have given us these debts, even if these debts have been created out of malice or ill-intent.

If we are to create a 'kingdom' on Earth, and have a place in which is conducive to happiness, prosperity, and freedom... It would seem first that we have to come to a point in which we stop demonizing Wall Street, allow for some forgiveness, especially to forgive ourselves for allowing it to come to this point.

You're not going to see this with OWS... I will just leave it at that...

Maybe a little Matthew 7 should be taken into consideration as well.

I am by no means religious, I actually read Matthew 6-7 for the first time a couple days ago, and I'd have to say it makes a lot of sense.
BTW, Something CRAZY! yall might want to check out....
www.abovetopsecret.com...
In the 5th post, I discovered that(as silly as it may seem), the undeniable proof of Schoolhouse Rock(the informational cartoon), The Bible, and Numerology.... It will not disapoint, especially the end.



posted on Nov, 18 2011 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by onfire49
reply to post by FortAnthem
 


What world do you live in where most people dont handle their finances in a responsible way.


Well, almost everyone I know in the US (friends and family) don't! I mean on the outside, they look to be doing okay- they have nice possessions, they eat well, dress well, take vacations...

But it is ALL on credit! They owe for all these things! When I get a chance to ask, I always like to ask how many credit cards they have. Not only do they always have one, but they usually have MANY!

Is that only in the western states that that has become "normal" or common?


My husband and I were talking about this concept of what if all the countries in the world did this "restart".

I mean besides the ethical and moral question of holding people responsible for their choices, and wanting them to suffer for their mistakes (which seems a bit petty in my mind, when either way EVERYONE will suffer ultimately) how would such a thing work? What all would that entail?




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