Perfect discription of how I feel when I hear/read people complaining about OWS.

It's particularly bad on this site.

These people are trying to make a change, you should realize how important this movement is by how much the main stream media hates it.

Would link to source, but I'm unaware of it, the artist has signed this however in the top left corner. Consider that the source.

Not that I don't support OWS cause, but some of the OWS elements is getting quite dangeous.

Occupy Wall Street Vows to Shut Stock Exchange, Subways on Day of Action

But.. who knows maybe they do have what it takes when others have failed.

I don't have a problem with the movement and the power/message behind it.

What I do have a problem with is that every time I mention something that I feel is wrong about OWS, doesn't fit into their little circle of what they believe to be true and right, or I found out something that is corrupting the movement.. I get crapped on and called and troll.

That sounds a lot like a cult or religion to me.

These OWS people need to learn to accept outside views and let others tell them if something is going wrong that can only be seen from the outside.

I didn't know that the mainstream media hated OWS. I thought they were getting a lot of coverage, which is what OWS wants.

As far as bringing change, so we should support them? I remember Obama using the word "change" a lot. Now, I need something more definite than "Change."

The anti-OWS crowd should at least give them credit for doing something, and not try to derail them by spreading hearsay.

reply to post by satron

I don't know if I'm anti-OWS as much as confused-OWS. I agree with you that people should be fair in their dealings with others, but you can't do away with hearsay. Pretty much all news reports are hearsay. I'm willing to accept more things than I actually see myself.

But I'm worried about respecting them for doing "something." Some times, doing something is bad, if it's the wrong thing to be doing. That's why I need a little more than "change" as something to rally around.

reply to post by charles1952


Better to be wrong for something you did, rather than something you didn't do.

It's very interesting/sad, that ATS is so divided on this. With all the threads, topics and knowledge of corupt media spin, negative qoutes from other sites and sources...

I haven't heard too many or any for that matter, of 1st hand "boots on the ground" accounts from ATS members who went to an OWS protest/rally and came back with an honest (with us & yourself) account of how nasty, negative, fear for your safety and health this hippie fest really is.

If there is a thread of an ATSer who went and saw this 1st hand and EVERYTHING on MSM is true, please link it. I missed it and now I can fully trust the news now.

reply to post by satron

Dear satron,

Thanks for the reply. Please check my signature. I think I don't have the mental power to follow you. I understand you to say that an active mistake is better than a passive mistake.

But aren't all mistakes bad? I thought we should spend time analyzing alternatives to avoid, as much as possible, mistakes. I'm having a difficult time understanding OWS's alternative, let alone analyzing it.

I perfectly understand if you go looking for brighter people to talk to.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Not all mistakes are bad, it would be impossible to learn if you didn't make mistakes, but yes, I think a passive mistake is generally worse, because that usually means that there was something you could have been proactive about to possibly thwart the error. But even if you still couldn't make a difference, at least you can say you tried, and lesson learned...the only lesson learned from acting passively is that you should have done something instead of sitting around.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
Not that I don't support OWS cause, but some of the OWS elements is getting quite dangeous.

Occupy Wall Street Vows to Shut Stock Exchange, Subways on Day of Action

But.. who knows maybe they do have what it takes when others have failed.

dangerous to what? our current system that we know doesn't work?

I hope so.

They want to occupy wall street. Fine. Let them. Obviously, they have plenty of free time.

But what about the "occupy" protests in other cities? Like Phoenix, Seattle, Oakland, etc.
What exactly are they occupying? What do they hope to achieve in these other cities?

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Just awful that some members sit here on "the net" and complain ENDLESSLY about the state of things, but any actual ACTION taken to DO something about it...is viewed as futile! How messed up and hopeless! Keep doing nothing while others at least got off their butts to do what you probably are afraid to do!

And, if any of you have better ideas, turn off your computer and form your own protest! Make signs! Here's a website on which you can find events in your area OR make your own for others to find.
civic.moveon.org

So, how about it? For those who are complaining so much, if you are so fantastic, go out and show us all how it's really done. Document your efforts with video. Show us instead of just sitting here and ranting about all the faults you see in the efforts of others!

If you're not going to even attempt at doing anything better, then hush up because nobody who IS actually doing something to affect change is listening to your list of complaints here. Nothing will change if all people do is sit around at home and post messages back and forth for other people to sit around and read. What a passive, ignorant waste of time.

I personally thank all those people who are out in the streets raising their voices and being heard.

reply to post by daynight42


I've heard that the Tea Party was a very large mobilization that put a lot of pressure on elected officials, changed the results of many elections and moved national politics onto a different path.

I can understand what the Tea Party did (even though I'm not a member), how they attempted to change things, their plans and their success.

Does that meet your request for someone to go out and do something?

reply to post by charles1952


Never was my post directly specifically at you. I wrote it without even reading any of your messages.

If you see potential in the OWS protests, then that's great. If the best you can do is complain here, then I'd say direct your comments to the protestors. Let them know of your feedback. If they think your feedback is valid, then maybe they'll change their strategy and you will have helped. Otherwise, complaining is a waste of your life's energy. It also contaminates the focus, which is to help one another out.

Let me make this simpler.

Imagine you have a flat tire for a van full of people. Only a fairly weak person who has trouble reading the owner's manual agrees to change it, while others who figure they could change it much faster sit in the car. Not just that, but they complain about how long it's taking but still refuse to actually help.

If you were the one changing the car, wouldn't you find it appropriate to tell the lazy ones to just shut up if they're not going to help? It's only making it worse for the person actually trying to fix it.

reply to post by daynight42


I agree, i have my complains about the Occupy Melbourne people, i bought it to the attention of one such advocate, and they agree'd what they did wasnt the best idea to get their movement attention they where going for, instead they where annoying the people who they where protesting FOR.

So they moved (im sure it wasnt just me who spoke up).

OWS - USA has a VERY valid complaint and i respect that. I can see where they are coming from and it makes sense.

Occupy Melbourne - Not so much, most of the protesters i have spoken too had no idea what it was for, some that thought they knew what it was for where wrong (if you put it over OWS). It started as support for our brothers and sisters in the US, then it turned into various affairs including Aboriginal rights, and annoying the general public and businesses (When they where in Melbourne Square).

Now in Treasury Gardens it made more logical sense, you want to fight for Economic Equality awesome, better place to go, your not annoying the general public who you are fighting for, and you have the oppertunity to annoy the ones you are protesting. Makes sense.

My other gripe with them is they are not "hippies" as some people put them (actually a fair few of them have a job believe it or not), but a few of them are far from innocent in regards to agression. I took a stroll through tresury guardens because i was bad, and missed my tram stop, and decided to walk (figuring the Protesters would leave me, one of the members of the public they are supposidly fighting for) on the way through a few members handed me flyers etc (which i took to read later, as i was mentally unavailable at the time), again makes sense, i like it, not in my face but want to make me aware. Awesome work, i like it. Then there is the agressive ones in my face, trying to stop me from walking, and in general antagonizing me for simply existing..

Dear daynight42,

I appreciate your answer, thanks for taking the time.

I may have gotten the wrong impression from your post. You seem to be saying that you don't want anyone on ATS to talk about OWS unless they're going to be supportive of the movement. It seems to me that ATSers are pretty independent and may reject your request.

The point I was trying to make was that the Tea Party was successful in bringing about change, is more popular with American than OWS, and did it with protests, the same general method used by OWS. By encouraging OWS to be more like the Tea Party, I think people are offering sound advice. I don't think that's complaining.

Interesting phrase, that, "complaining is a waste of your life's energy." My limited experience here is that most of the threads are complaining about something. So is the Tea Party, so is OWS.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
Dear daynight42,

I appreciate your answer, thanks for taking the time.

I may have gotten the wrong impression from your post. You seem to be saying that you don't want anyone on ATS to talk about OWS unless they're going to be supportive of the movement. It seems to me that ATSers are pretty independent and may reject your request.

The point I was trying to make was that the Tea Party was successful in bringing about change, is more popular with American than OWS, and did it with protests, the same general method used by OWS. By encouraging OWS to be more like the Tea Party, I think people are offering sound advice. I don't think that's complaining.

Interesting phrase, that, "complaining is a waste of your life's energy." My limited experience here is that most of the threads are complaining about something. So is the Tea Party, so is OWS.

With respect,
Charles1952

What I said was originally directed at someone in another thread who said that people in OWS were doing the wrong thing by being offline and missing out on the new bad news here on ATS. Ridiculous of course. Nobody here on ATS is changing anything simply by reading and posting things.

People do a lot of complaining here while they are keeping up with issues that are important to them. That is how I view it. Rants do come, but a lot of people come here to stay on top of a certain "type" of news. A lot of them are frustrated. I get that they want to vent and find people who feel the same. Great. But...if someone is complaining and feeling self-gratified due to their "superior" point of view AND feel like they are better than someone protesting for having that view, THEN that's where I say, Okay, you are wrong.

reply to post by daynight42


Dear daynight24,

Message received and understood. (And I agree with you completely.)

Thanks

With respect,
Charles1952

Mainstream media doesn't hate it, at least not the British media anyway.

Just cause US media doesn't know what impartiality is, doesn't mean the rest of the world follows suit.

Our media reports on both the protesters and what they're complaining about as well as when those same protesters attack police and provoke response. They've showed support from public and clerical figures and condemnation from others.

Also, the "rant" in the OP is weird because the majority of ATS seems to jump into the herd and support the protests while ignoring facts that put the protesters in a bad light and trying to find any excuse to hate those who aren't involved.

I support the idea of us poor folk getting more money to help us live how we're all entitled to but I will never support these protests.