Breakdown of a Huffington Post: "Up to my neck in Debt"

Over the last few weeks I have been reading articles related to the whole OWS situation. This article isn't necessarily about the OWS movement, however it is touching upon one of their main concerns, which is student Debt.

To state my opinion upfront on the issue, I believe that both sides need to change. I agree that gov't subsidies are in turn making tuition more expensive(why not soak up free money?). I also believe there tends to be a lot of predatory lending in these situations, as young adults are forced with a choice- try and survive on a highschool diploma(no thanks), or make it big with a new idea, OR take on student debt and earn a higher degree for the chance at better future job prospects. Both situations come with inherent risks, however I fully understand why people would take the chance for a better future, even if it means incurring debt. I did.

However, this article really struck a note with me, and Its been stuck in my head since I read it.
Here is the link to the article
Huffington Post: Brittany Baker: Up to my neck in Debt It may be a smart idea to read this article first before continuing on mine.
Does any part of this article irk you?

Well it did for me, and here's where it starts-

There are some things you just don't skimp on: ketchup, for instance. Anniversary dinners, toilet paper. In my mind, education was always one of these splurge-worthy essentials. So despite the very blue-collar upbringing I had (my mother is a bookkeeper and my dad, a truck driver), I enrolled in Allegheny College, a private, four-year liberal arts school nestled in a small Pennsylvania town of bars and churches.

Now, four years later and $40,000 in debt, I'm still going to school, this time at more urban (i.e. more expensive) private school, Sarah Lawrence. As if my mounting debt and larger-than-life-interest rates weren't bad enough, I'm going to school for creative nonfiction writing -- a field I've loved since high school and came to appreciate in undergrad, but which offers little direction or lucrative endeavors after these next two years of grad school.

The ignorance in this just blew my mind.
1. " In my mind, education was always one of these splurge-worthy essentials."
Ms. Baker is equating the cost of a college to the level of education she would receive. This is just wrong and stupid in my opinion. In my mind, the only thing that determines the quality of your education is how much work you put into it. You can go to harvard, and have your parents pay/bribe the entire tuition for you, but that does not guarantee you will come out of that school any smarter than you entered it. What does ? How hard you worked and what knowledge you've ingrained into your head. I go to a local Community College and spend only 3k a year on tuition to study Computer Information Technology. And I guarantee I'm coming out of my schooling much more educated and useful than Ms. Baker. Although I will admit, my creative writing skills may not be as up to par as hers, however when she needs the help of an IT person, I doubt they will accept a creative story as payment.

2. "Now, four years later and $40,000 in debt, I'm still going to school, this time at more urban (i.e. more expensive) private school, Sarah Lawrence."

So, you opted to transfer to an even more expensive school? Again, this just blows my mind. Everyone knows these private "for profit" institutions are typically the most expensive schools you can go to. So why transfer to an even more expensive school? You KNOW its more expensive. Its your right as a free person to do so, but I think that takes away your right to complain about the debt your INTENTIONALLY incurring upon yourself. Add in this next line, and I pretty much lost it.

3."As if my mounting debt and larger-than-life-interest rates weren't bad enough, I'm going to school for creative nonfiction writing -- a field I've loved since high school and came to appreciate in undergrad, but which offers little direction or lucrative endeavors after these next two years of grad school."

So you chose to go from one expensive school, to an even more expensive school, to study "Nonfiction Writing", a field that you admit knowing offers little in direction or lucrative endeavors after graduation? Am I missing something? Why are you studying such a (worthless) degree at such a ridiculous cost? I just fail to see how ANY of this made any sense to Ms.Baker. On top of that, she will be going to Graduate school, which is typically even more expensive. It just seems to me she keeps digging herself into a deeper and deeper hole, and then wants to complain about the situation her own actions created.

4. " I won a writing award. I cashed in my Roth IRA savings for a plane ticket to Greece, a gamble which helped write my senior thesis."
Okay, so you plan on coming out of college with 80k? potentially in debt. So what do you do? Cash in your roth IRA for a trip to Europe? She could have just as easily held onto this IRA, and let it continue to accrue interest, which she could then put towards her student debt after graduation. Was a trip to Greece necessary to do your senior thesis? HARDLY. To me, this sounds more like she is using this to excuse and mask her poor judgement.
Dont get me wrong, I would LOVE, absolutely LOVE to travel, especially to Europe. However, I put whatever money I scrape up towards living and school expenses. Sometimes, you have to do what you HAVE to do, instead of what you WANT to do! Life isnt all about unicorns farts and obama-promises. I rarely ever go out and enjoy myself because i know in the real sense that I CANNOT afford to pay 400% markup on crap water beer. look, im even writing this on a saturday night while most of my peers are off getting drunk and feeling up girlies in the club. Would I love to be doing that right now? You bet. But, at this point in my life, securing my future is much more important to me. I'll probably fall asleep tonight reading my book for my programming class.

In Summation: I work my butt off for what I have and where I am. I am delaying my happiness now in the hopes that I will be even happier in the future. It really pisses me off to see people do easy degrees, and have fun all the time, and then not understand why they aren't getting a 100k job for some joke degree that everyone else does, because its an easy degree to complete. I hope to have a great paying job someday (will be transferring after graduation into a BS in cybersecurity next semester!!) This College charges 30k a year in tuition, however, its one of the few colleges in the US offering CyberSecurity, and it is in association with the state police, FBI, DHS, and secret service. Great internship opportunities. However, Ive been saving whatever money I can to go towards this tuition. I have not had a vacation in years. I havent gone to a bar in over a year. Im doing all this hard work and delaying my happiness so that I can afford 30k a year tuition for 2 years. However, I am not doing this so that in the future I can help subsidize someone else's worthless degree, constant weekend partying, and trips to europe.

Thoughts, ATS?

PS- to any younger folk reading this, go to a Community college first. You will save money, get better attention from your profs, and be much farther ahead than your peers by having less student debt!

PS- to any younger folk reading this, go to a Community college first. You will save money, get better attention from your profs, and be much farther ahead than your peers by having less student debt!

Hey man, Is that really true?

Jeez, now we have posts RIDICULING peoples choices of furthering their education!!! Jeeze.

Isnt there better things to focus on like how college kids are azz raped with tuition prices regardless of where they go and how they will not be able to find a job (other than fast food or the grocery mart) when they graduate????

Just seems like more important issues to waste time on rather than a persons choice in FURTHERING their EDUCATION.

Sounds like more of the silly nonsense of placing-the-blame-on-the-people-instead-of-the-flawed-system-and-SNAKES in our country.

Shift-the-blame-distractions. Remove the spotlight from the SNAKES.

Nice try.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


Yes, it is very true.
community colleges are MUCH cheaper, especially if your instate. I only pay 3k a year for tuition.
The class sizes are much smaller, and I deal with my professors on a first name basis. I have almost the same people in all of my classes(well the IT ones) so we get to know each other very well and we are great at working together.
Also, CC's are typically easier and less demanding than Universities. The benefit? Its easier, I believe, to get better grades, more than likely due to more attention from your professors. Then, after graduation, if you wish to complete a 4 year degree, those schools will look highly upon you. They know you are serious and not a quitter, since you were capable of completing a degree already. And since you will have better grades than say if you started out at a major university, your prospects of getting scholarship money will increase greatly. Also, if you go into a school with a 2 year degree, they MAY knock off any additional Liberal Arts courses or gen-ed courses that you would have to take other wise. Atleast this is what is happening for me. I get to go into my program withOUT* having to take an additional 30 gen-ed/liberal arts courses that are, IMO, worthless!

I cant say this enough, Go to a CC your first two years!

why would you put yourself $40,000+ in debt to be a non-fiction writer.

hunter s. thompson must rolling in his grave, if he had one.

she should ask herself, "what would horatio alger do."

reply to post by randomname

hunter s. thompson must rolling in his grave, if he had one.

Yah, no crap. His grave is in the negative. He has -1 grave.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


I think it's true, the first couple years of college are just to get the basic required classes out of the way.

There is no good reason to spend extra money at a full fledged university when the credits count the same. You only list the college you graduate from on your resume, not where you got every credit.

But I also want to add this, if you have no idea what you want to do, or if you are studying something you know there are no jobs for and you have to go into debt to attend, just don't go. We really are getting to the point a college degree only matters for technical jobs, getting a degree in business for instance is pretty much a total waste.

reply to post by VonDoomen

Thoughts, ATS?

No person in this country should be denied the right to an education, regardless of how advanced the education is.. in fact, we should encourage our citizens to be the most intelligent and studied people in the World, and we should use our vast resources to strive to make sure we offer the best institutions to achieve such standings.

Education is a Natural Right. It's a Right given by the creator to all Humans, and to restrict through expense and indenture into servitude the huge expense of attaining that education is a violation of basic Human Rights. Our higher education system is an abomination, an embodiment of all that is wrong with our country. It should be free, the expenses paid by taxes, and no level of education should be restricted, no subject demonized, no expense, it should be a Right for all citizens of this country.

Found this in another thread. Great watch.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


To put in perspective.

for about 12 credits in a term I spent about 1k on tuition, sometimes up to 400 in books. Sometimes it was a little less, sometimes more. Often times the more expensive books were to be used over three terms (or even two years in the case of my language class). 80 dollars per class is sometimes a good average for books..

At my state university it's twice that in tuition. Books are about the same, however Im renting them.

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Jeez, now we have posts RIDICULING peoples choices of furthering their education!!! Jeeze.

Isnt there better things to focus on like how college kids are azz raped with tuition prices regardless of where they go and how they will not be able to find a job (other than fast food or the grocery mart) when they graduate????

Just seems like more important issues to waste time on rather than a persons choice in FURTHERING their EDUCATION.

Sounds like more of the silly nonsense of placing-the-blame-on-the-people-instead-of-the-flawed-system-and-SNAKES in our country.

Shift-the-blame-distractions. Remove the spotlight from the SNAKES.

Nice try.

edit on 5-11-2011 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)

well thanks for taking the time to comprehend my article.

1. "Jeez, now we have posts RIDICULING peoples choices of furthering their education!!!"

On the contrary, Im all for higher education. But I wouldn't consider a degree in creative writing not to be educational. Mark Twain didn't go to school past primary school, and he turned out pretty damn well. I honestly don't believe you can teach someone Creativity.

I do however question this girl for cashing in an IRA for a vacation, when she clearly "understands" her financial situation. I also question this girl for seeking a degree she knows "which offers little direction or lucrative endeavors after these next two years of grad school." I've been practicing creative writing for free for a long time. I've done a lot of it here free, and for free. I may not be as good as one of these highly educated students, but I've seen plenty of appreciation from members of the ATS community. I honestly feel I have become better at writing because of ATS. (But I must admit, I put more effort into my graded writing, than what I do here, so dont go all grammar nazi on me.) However, I didn't decide to borrow 60-80k from public tax funds or private investors to do this. Theres no reason she couldn't have pursued a much more useful degree and work on her creative writing on her own dime. Or atleast pursue it as a minor to a degree in say, Communication? Just because you have a degree in creative writing, does not mean your entitled to be the next Mark Twain, or get a lucrative job in that profession. What will? Hard work, lots of writing/practice, and getting a body of work to put behind your name. As far as i know, you can do all of that for free!

2. "Isnt there better things to focus on like how college kids are azz raped with tuition prices regardless of where they go and how they will not be able to find a job (other than fast food or the grocery mart) when they graduate"

At the very top of my article, I stated, i believe both sides of the argument need to change and compromise. However, had you read my article, you would see that I'm completing a very worthwhile degree for roughly 6K + my own personal living expenses.

reply to post by proximo


Thanks for your input!

I agree with you whole completely!

I delayed college for a few years and got some real world experience while trying to figure out what i wanted to do.
Im not sure where you are from, but in my state, the first 1-2 are all the same. Gen-ed and liberal arts with a few classes specific to your major. However, thats the benefit of a community college. My first two years are about half gen-ed/liberal arts and half IT classes. Since I'm going into this 4 year school with an associates degree, I get to skip past the remaining gen-ed/liberal arts classes and get straight to my core courses.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I agree with almost everything you say. Education is GREAT and should be considered a natural right. Im all for socializing it, to an extent. However, I also believe that people should be allowed to go into contracts with other people. She knowingly and willingly took up debt from public tax payers and private investors and promised to pay them back over time. She knew what she was getting into. She made her choice. This isn't a perfect world. Your not guaranteed to live the high life. You don't have the right to abuse other peoples money, and then flaunt vacations to Europe. Why does this girl expect special treatment? I want to go to Europe, why not me? Oh yea, cause I chose not to live off other people.

reply to post by VonDoomen


S & F

Couldnt agree more, IMO if you take a student loan that is subsidized by the tax payer in anyway or get any special help with funding your education from the government then you should be forced to complete your education at the cheapest location in your area.

THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND>

There is no reason tax payers should be paying for you to try to get ahead of them let alone paying for you to do it through fancy school's where you pay for the name and connections.

reply to post by VonDoomen


I have survived twenty some odd years on a High School diploma because nobody was going to pay for my college, not even the federal loans (my parents claimed me and beat me out of that deal) I also was in the Army (Reserves) which meant I got the GI Bill, but not a full pay one, and in the end they wanted 30,000 out of my pocket (besides what the GI Bill was going to pay) and no thank you ma'am even if I had it they could bugger off especially since it was a Community college.
I am finally getting my schooling hoping to break from just making it, but I did pretty darn good for twenty odd years off HS diploma education, we have had rough spots, in fact we're going through one now, and Guess what we still only have very little debt (medical only) we never had credit cards or a mortgage. We bought our house borrowing the cash from his boss and paid it back just like a loan (also it was a trailer so it's only $10,000 worth of borrowing) we have debit cards only. We had nice things for our kids (bought at pawn shops or sold by people on craigslist). We have struggled, no doubt, but I just cannot imagine if we had other debts from our past...thankfully now I definately can pay off my loan for this schooling because of the ability to go online (which is cheaper) and even at most of my jobs I have made the amount of my loan in one year of work, so it is not way overboard!

People CAN do it!!!

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by VonDoomen

 

Thoughts, ATS?

No person in this country should be denied the right to an education, regardless of how advanced the education is.. in fact, we should encourage our citizens to be the most intelligent and studied people in the World, and we should use our vast resources to strive to make sure we offer the best institutions to achieve such standings.

Education is a Natural Right. It's a Right given by the creator to all Humans, and to restrict through expense and indenture into servitude the huge expense of attaining that education is a violation of basic Human Rights. Our higher education system is an abomination, an embodiment of all that is wrong with our country. It should be free, the expenses paid by taxes, and no level of education should be restricted, no subject demonized, no expense, it should be a Right for all citizens of this country.

"Bullhockey"( "natural right"):Not for some useless ( "creative nonfiction")? liberal arts degree.

Mom was a "legal secretary" ; dad a truck driver: I went from high school directly into the usaf. (up to my elbows wrenching in SAC nuclear warheads at age 18.) My heart bleeds for miss muffy and herself acquired $80k in debt..
.Life is not all "unicorn farts" indeed.

reply to post by byteshertz


Thanks for the support and input!

heres how my idea of what may work-

I believe that from the start, any financial aide should be based off your performance in highschool.
If you earned a Graduating grade of an A, you would receive enough money for your first semester at a state school, say 10k?
A- 100%-81% based on the degree your pursuing, and how much demand there is for it ($10k-$8.1K)
B- 80%-61% based on the degree your pursuing, and how much demand there is for it
C- 60%-40% based on the degree your pursuing, and how much demand there is for it

If you chose to go to a more expensive private school, you would have to come up with the remaining cost on your own, from family, or by borrowing it.

Then, every semester after your GPA is calculated, that determines how much money you get. And as always, its based off the average instate tuition of a state school. I think this would make everyone happier and solve the problem.

It would make getting into college easier and give EVERYONE an opportunity. I believe it would also make people more hopeful, so we would get more effort out of people. Its also based off performance, which should be our main tool of motivation, and would give people an incentive to get that A, instead of just getting by with a C. So we would be motivating people to push themselves, instead of just opting to get by. And we would still have a system for private investors to put their money to work.

We cant demonize ALL investors, because lots of simple Joes invest too and arent multimillionares acting as parasites off people. People get old, and there comes a point in our lives when we HAVE to stop working and start living off our savings. Well, student debt is one of the ways we can make that work. Debt is not necessarily an evil thing. It helps us live comfortably when we are old. However, Theres also a lot of companies that do this for purely to profit, and thats different than say your average joe trying to save enough money to retire comfortably. So the problem here is greed with certain entities.

buyer beware!

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

PS- to any younger folk reading this, go to a Community college first. You will save money, get better attention from your profs, and be much farther ahead than your peers by having less student debt!

Hey man, Is that really true?

Absolutely! This is great advice. Credits transfer right over. The only way to do it.

where is the conspiracy in this..i cant find it..i HATE when people come to a conspiracy site and post non conspiracy things..this should be on a financial website not a conspiracy site