ATS and OWS: What the heck, ATS?

I've been on ATS since 2003. At the time I was lurking, and utilizing this place mostly for the free giggles it gave me as people posted blobsquatches and theorized about the Jersey Devil (I was big on Cryptozoology at the time, hey?) Every now and hen I would wander out of my pen to see what was going on with the rest of the site.

In the near decade I have been giving ATS my attention, I have noticed common refrains passing through this place, day in and day out.

"The system is broken."
"When are the people going to do something?"
"How much can they take?"
"There ought to be a revolution."
"The media is bought."
"Both parties are corrupt in America."
"We won't stand for the NWO."
etc., etc., etc.

So now. It's the latter half of 2011. In cities across the nation - even into other nations, spanning from Jakarta to Copenhagen to Buenos Aires and Sydney - people are stepping up to the plate. They are speaking out, they are pointing out the chasms - previously cracks - in the system. They are questioning the validity of the old systems and the status quo. They are looking at the banks and the corporations and the politicians, all these big pigs snarfing and gobbling at the tough that is our now-empty wallets, and they are saying, "Oh, hell no."

And ATS' response to people doing exactly as it has asked, hoped, dreamed, predicted, and advocated for over a decade?

Derision, scorn, mockery. This movement is nothing, after all, just a bunch of confused dirty hippies, right? Why, the media - who we can rather inexplicably give our total trust now - tells us that there were only a few hundred protestors, so it must be true, after all. Our politicians, formerly bought and corrupt, are now to be lauded and praised, when they dismiss these people. Our commercial and financial institutions, formerly known as "part of the problem" are now the defenseless babes that so many ATS posters have chosen to rally around. While decrying "disinfo," we are subjected to a constant stream of the same sources citing the same BS about how truly bad and terrible and awful and despicable and pointless OWS and its spawn movements are. While pledging ourselves against ignorance, we seem to have a movement within our own ranks to occlude and distract and even just plain lie about hte situations at hand.

Why is that? Why, after ten years, has the mood of ATS reversed course to a point where the media is to be trusted, the corrupt to be praised, the corruptors to be coddled, and the people trying to do something are the ones heaped with abuse? The very men and women so many here choose to identify with as archetypes - "workers," "real Americans," "patriots," "activists," "awakened souls," whatever - are the subjects of disgust and outright hatred when presented in person.

So why? Is it because these folks are, you know, those people? Those... LEFTISTS?!?! What with their demands of living wages and whatnot... Is it because ATS is infested with "paid disinfo agents," as some put it? Or is it just that this place is so cynical, so plagued with hatred in general, that when we see the forest, we're not so much missing the trees as bitching about the lack of plumbing? There does seem to be a rather deep level of misanthropy around here often.

So what's the deal, ATS posters? Why can we demand action for ten years, and then throw beer cans at the people who try? How is it so many of us can stand in solidarity with people whose #1 goal was ensuring the nation's motto remained "In God We Trust," but so few of us can voice even the mildest positive about the people who are trying to change the real problems we're all facing? Why is it we can all be so smug about how many of us are apparently "in the know," yet refuse any information at all about this movement, favoring instead to parrot whatever our absolutely trusted media sources tell us?

I've been to Occupy Tacoma. I've been to Occupy Seattle (Vashon, for a variety of reasons, is a net exporter of occupiers.) I've talked to the people out there on the streets. I've talked to the people at work. I talk and I listen. How many here have done the same? How many here simply tune in to some blowhard on the radio, then come repeat him or her, word for word, here on ATS?

George Soros, together with ACORN, Barrack HUSSEIN!!!!! Osama, and Michael Moore today exerted their immense and diabolical powers to influence the deluded denizens of occupy Tacoma. As a result, Bob Donaldson bought a box of donuts to share with the people at 21st and Pacific. EVIL LIBERAL DONUTS!

So yeah. Hey. What the hell, guys? Just... what the hell? A few years ago I'd have thought we could throw in behind something like this. Was I wrong? Why am I wrong?

The propaganda has worked again!

Divide and conquer!

Brainwash! Brainwash! Brainwash!

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


it's a mystery man.the real conspiracy is why aren't more behind it,too many slaves with too much to loose.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Interesting post. (or rant?)

ATS is member driven, this hasn't changed since you joined. Member driven by the common citizen. I don't buy into this "disinfo agent" stuff. Never did. I am sure ATS is monitored by the different homeland security agencies for obvious security purposes but that would be like most popular member sites on the net.

And unfortunately, the common citizen is still Main Stream Media driven. Heavily influenced. Sad but true.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


You said it brother.

you'll cop it from new guys and old people who cant move, but you said it.

I agree with you. The call for change appears to be limited to an age. Move beyond it, a new one appears, and the old one ridiculed.

Been here just as long, watching, then talking.

all the 2011 guys ... you just can't explain it..

Hahaha just noticed your new avatar sorry,

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


VERY well said, Good on you!

I've observed this behavior as well, and find it both amusing and disgusting. It is an indication of just how much TPTB feared, and still fears the hippy philosophy... put a few skinny kids with scraggly beards on a protest line, and all of a sudden it's THE HIPPIES!!! Run for the hills, the hippies are going to get you!

S&F... a thousand if I could...

All I can guess is that the programming worked.

The dwindling middle and upper middle class, who are comfortable in their homes with their Blu-rays and i-phones aren't going to buck the system that is insuring this comfort. The 'haves' want to keep what they have and not become a 'have not'... What they don't realize is that they are one step away from becoming one.

How people can continue to support a system that insures their own demise is BEYOND me. It IS a conspiracy. One worth talking about. Thanks Fox.

Since"OWS" claims to be protesting against All these different ( "pet") issues (depending on who is speaking and even plenty of posters here; having been to one rally claim to speak for OWS (using the pronouns "we" and "us"):
"Greed"
"corporate greed"
"justice"
"Social justice"
"lgbt issues"
Student debts that are too large."
"Capitalism is the problem (evil)""
"Hey- hey- ho-ho- Capitalism needs to go!"
And of course(the liberal favorite): Generic "Fairness"

It's now wonder few "outsiders" can jump behind and fully "support OWS" in all its many complaints being aired on Wall st..


Just because I can't get behind every "OWS position" doesn't mean I support: "banker bailouts"!

This is yet another amorphic; i.e. "you know what I mean" movement that is molded on the spot in the mind of anyone particular speaker. ( kinda like:"Oh You know, "he"stands for: "hope and change" ."
Then when contested:"Well; He or she doesn't speak for "OWS"!

reply to post by TheWalkingFox
It's not the fact that there are protesters, l'il puddin', it's because their solutions are wrong.

I've been on line, writing in print, since 2003 as well. Started my rants against Bush.

While we all have a common problem, our ideas as to the solutions to these common problems are as different as Kim Kardashians husbands.

Focus on common solutions and you might find a consensus.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


S+F

I've been surprised myself by the amount of ATS members opposed to the occupy protests.

Seeing the forum i've learned to love because of the large quantity of members here all knowing that something has to give, that something has to change, that something needs to be done.... Turn into a forum of members belittling the very people that are trying to do something. People who are getting off their computer chairs and going out onto the streets to fight for what they believe in.

They may be a little unorganised right now, they may not have a full list of clear demands, they may only have small numbers in certain places. But this is just the start. The start of something big. At the moment they are just a few grains of sand on a vast beach. But, atleast they are trying. Trying to raise awareness of the corrupt system we all live in. Soon those grains of sand will start growing in numbers. It's not going to happen straight away and change is not going to happen overnight, but remember, this is only the start.

For those that think they are going about it all wrong, perhaps you should get out there and give them some of your own ideas.... Help them, don't mock them.

I think there are numerous reasons why OWS doesn't sit well with some of ATS, but why it appears that all of ATS is anti-OWS.

1) Primary reason: Those who are against OWS are more likely to be vocal about it on ATS, while those who are for it are more likely to simply agree or show up to the Anti-OWS threads to defend it or very well may be at OWS and not looking at ATS.

2) Even those like myself who agree with OWS are against many of the things I see regarding OWS. Its disorganization, its open door anyone-can-come-and-bitch policy resulting in everyone from the homeless and druggies hanging out to the tea party to communists and everything in between. In a country with as much free time and technology as America, its surprising that OWS appears to have been created without any game plan in mind, without any specific agenda except (look at us, we're mad!). I mean really how can a movement like that work? Blacks had a civil rights movement, the message was clear. Arab spring movements have had a single message (leave the country or die, we want a different government). The gay rights movement is clear and focused- the right to marriage. OWS wants anything and everything, and many things which are unrealistic like "going back to the gold standard". Its a farce and a mess.

3) Whenever someone strongly identifies with something like "I'm a conspiracy theorist and I KNOW WHATS GOING ON!" If the rest of the world starts to actually agree with them and say the same things, suddenly that persons identity is threatened, as is their place in the world. They might not be able to be the exclusive knower anymore, suddenly the sheeple might come to realize the same things. Here I am pointing at what is probably a minority of people who identify with knowing the truth or even thinking they know for the wrong reasons. Its not about liberation, its about having a sense of purpose or meaning to life, and that sense is threatened if it no longer makes them special.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox



Im sure you have your reasons to feel the way you do, but to be 100% honest, I just dont agree with OWS. There is just too much BS about it. Sure, some of the ideals are great and sound really cool, but the basis of the organization for me.. is, well... Baseless.

I simply dont agree with the tactics that brought this together and I certainly will have nothing at all to do with Acorn and Obama or any Democratic snafu to be certain.

I don't live near any of the "Occupy" protests, but it is the subject of a lot of talk in my area. From people I've talked to it seems that a lot more people could "get behind" the movement if there was some kind of CLEAR objective. The problem is that everybody has their own particular pet peeves that they are protesting. At first it seemed pretty clear that people were protesting all of the Wall Street corruption and calling for the criminals involved to be prosecuted. Now nobody is really sure WHAT exactly they are trying to be accomplished.

Almost every protester that you see being interviewed has a different agenda. It's everything from "lock up the Wall Street crooks" to "I deserve a free house and free food and free medical and a six figure job on demand". There's also a lot of "Robin Hood syndrome" meaning let's take away everybody's money and split it up equally among EVERYBODY. Now THAT'S the one that gets the biggest opposition amongst the people I've talked to, and I agree with them. We have all worked hard for everything we have- why should we have to give what we have to people who haven't worked and saved just as hard? And I'm not talking rich people here! Average income in this area is under $45,000 for a family of four! We don't want a "hand out"; we just want to earn what we get and keep what we earn without having to give part of it to people that feel they deserve the same without working and sacrificing for it.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. If the "Occupy" movement could get some real leaders with some common goals that they can all agree upon they might get more support. But until then I believe a lot of folks are just going to watch from a distance and stay out of it.

reply to post by theRhenn


You do not agree that there is a toxic imbalance of wealth distribution in this country? You do not agree that the entire economic system is geared to the benefit of the 1%, to the detriment of the rest of the population?

Or are you so ingrained into the Left-Right paradigm (generated by and for the benefit of the 1%) that you are unable to separate that out?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I have spoken with people from the Occupy Movement. They do not agree with my views. I do not agree with theirs. Very many of them were very liberal and outspoken on issues of welfare, social justice programs, and, in some cases, the implementation of a socialist or Communist system in America. Not all of them, mind you, but I can honestly say that for every person in love with liberty and lax government control over our lives, there are 10 who a pro government expansion, pro going into more debt, and pro handouts.

That is not me. I respect their opinions, but I choose to disassociate with them. I even support their ideals, BUT, I do not support their supposed solutions to the problem. I am a supporter of the Constitution, liberty, and rights that each person was born with. Many of them couldn't tell you what is in the Bill of Rights, but they could certainly quote the Communist Manifesto.

Does the media lie to pain a bad picture? Yes. However, it is the truth from the movement that paints a bad picture for me. I don't watch the media, I don't listen to the lies - I observe, and what I have seen as turned me away. What I have heard with my own two ears has turned me away.

That fact also remains that peaceful change accomplishes nothing in the United States. We are not a nation bound together by religious ideals and philosophy so that we can accomplish what was accomplished in India. We are a nation of brainwashed people, who even on their most dreadful day 90% of them would never even speak out against the government. And we are a nation of a government that does not listen to the people, and this has been proven time, and time, and time, and time again. OWS is no different.

So when this is all said and done, and people do eventually go home... or hell maybe they won't. Somewhere along the lines the real revolution is going to come. The real change to this country is going to come when it returns back to its founding doctrine and sadly, many of these OWS protestors are not going to like that. But that is too bad.

Freedom is dealing with others doing what they want so that you may do the same. Freedom will be here again.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Wonderfully stated, Fox.

I have a feeling that there have been lurkers waiting in the wings to counter OWS support. I find it strange that there have been flocks of newbees shortly before all of this began. We already know that the CIA has been monitoring social networking sites and those who are monitoring these sites are well versed in linguistic programming and memes. They used this to know when to act.

Another thing is that many people need to be told what something is about. They cannot and will not think for themselves. They want the MSM to announce on the 6 o'clock news what the protesters want. This isn't going to happen. The MSM and several other information outlets breed confusion. Confusion is another way to control the masses. Just look at the "leaders" in the major Occupy towns who keep flipflopping on whether or not they'll allow the protesters to stay or go. One day, they tell the cops to clear them out, then 24 hours later, they say it's OK for them to remain. This causes nothing but confusion and frustration. Order out of chaos.

Something else I'd like to mention is that OWS needs to be viewed in the same light as school, the mall, and ATS. Nobody who attends school is there for the same reasons others are. Some are there to learn, some are there for the popularity contest, some are there to sell drugs, some are there because it gets them away from their home life for a few hours a day, etc. Just like ATS, it would be pretty boring if everyone was here to converse about aliens and UFOs.

To those who are saying that the protests haven't done anything positive. Could this be because our "leaders" haven't budged on anything? I wrote a thread about the protests and how to tell when they're working, but I haven't seen our politicians address one of those points I listed!
You can read it here if you so choose: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Many people are here to push the blue pill on us, but for those who have already taken the red pill cannot turn back now. Things are going to be so bright soon that even those who have swallowed the blue pill won't be able to block the light out with their ultra dark sunglasses. These are the ones who are going to suffer in the end while the rest of us laugh and point.

The final thing I'd like to add is that you need to keep your wits about you and take notice to certain members' posting patterns. This will tell you a lot and enable you to see things more clearly.

Best wishes!

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I have to say that I am really glad to see people trying to do something about the condition of our governments.
BUT....I don't agree with what most of the people are protesting, mostly for their own wants and what they think should change rather than the good of the whole.
What I believe they should do is narrow the demands to (Stop the corrupt government). This includes getting rid of lobbyists, getting rid of the IRS, getting rid of corporate donations to politicians ect...
Simply narrow the demands to one great cause that would then start the process, then work on the next agenda.
Most of what they want to do will bring us closer to socialism rather than a cause that will benefit all of the American people.
Start with getting rid of the corrupt government. That will bring everyone together more than having several different views of what people think the protests are about.
I would definitely be i FULL support for that one...and so would the rest of America.

Sorry if this wasn't very clear, my head is still foggy this morning.

Blah, blah, I don't agree with everything they want, so blah, blah, blah.

When was the last time you voted for someone even though you didn't agree with them on every single issue?

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
reply to post by theRhenn

 

You do not agree that there is a toxic imbalance of wealth distribution in this country? You do not agree that the entire economic system is geared to the benefit of the 1%, to the detriment of the rest of the population?

Or are you so ingrained into the Left-Right paradigm (generated by and for the benefit of the 1%) that you are unable to separate that out?

Oh I very much agree that there are many socialists that want wealth in the US to be distributed to the lazy assed poor who dont get up at 5am in the morning, has 5 kids and expect more, and as much of these people involved in OWS has shown, often have the "It's my birthright" attitude with everything around them.

Me??? I believe that I should get every single red cent of the money I work for every day. I dont feel that some hoodlum pothead on welfare should get a dime unless I give it to him myself. I dont believe I should give one cent to the government or anything relating. But I dont complain because some, even if only a very small portion, goes to people who CANT work and are unable to get out of bed in the morning. That does not bother me. What bothers me is the attitude that people have in this and expect everything even though they didnt do a damn thing to deserve it.

I hate banks, they should ALL be investigated yearly and never allowed to make one bit of profit. Banks should be nonprofit from the get go. Yet, I still will not stand beside someone and share a rant if I feel that 80% of what he's ranting about isnt my rant, and if 90% of what he is saying sounds completely baseless. The problem is, people follow one another too closely these days and would have little to no interest in the reasons. I dont follow blindly and I personaly feel that this is exactly what OWS is. The blind leading the blind who was led by some organised entity with a purpose that neither me nor you will be the wiser to.

Once again, as I said above... There are things I agree with that the people are voicing but, as many responces have said since the start of this thing...


For me... Even though I agree with some statements comming from OWS, I mean hey, I have my share in the mortage issues as well, but I dont agree with MAJORITY of what OWS is doing and how they have gone about it, and most importantly, who "seems" to be the hidden push behind it. Please reread my responce if you're confused where I stand.


btw, thanks for shoving those words in my mouth. Now... Since you cant think for me, because you wouldnt even know where to start... I'll say this. Im not left winged, i'm not right winged. I'm a simple guy with his OWN DAMN MIND and I dont have to follow a bunch of idiots to feel like I'm doing something important with my life other than wasting fresh air. I'm educated. I dont HAVE to follow you. I'm Smart... I dont have to assume your answer is the correct one. I'm an induvidual. I dont have to do a damn thing that I dont want to do, follow, say, or feel. Who are you and your croonies to tell me how I HAVE to think? Isnt that what TPTB that everyone is so scared of here, does?



People... Go outside and see the world for what it is! Stop reading it on a damn conspiracy site! No 2 people every agree on a damn thing here anyways.

Originally posted by littled16
...There's also a lot of "Robin Hood syndrome" meaning let's take away everybody's money and split it up equally among EVERYBODY. Now THAT'S the one that gets the biggest opposition amongst the people I've talked to, and I agree with them. ...

I don't mean to derail anything here but I feel like I need to point something out before we let the Progressives steal another word and make it mean the opposite!

The people of Nottingham were OVERTAXED. No matter how much they produced they couldn't feed their families because the the government stole their production.

Robin Hood "stole" back from the tax collectors and the elite that were on the receiving end. He then brought the peoples money back to them. He was no model of commie redistribution! In fact, he was the opposite of that!