RE: Every thread complaining about OWS

Member may complain about OWS, the problem is there's just too many of these damn threads, to the point it feels like spamming.

It's actually worse than Obama birth certificate threads like the previous years. It's as if these members don't actually have anything else productive to do with their time except opening these kind of threads or posting anti OWS posts. Are they like epically unemployed or something?

I agree that things have to change and I welcome OWS as an expression of discontent.
However, I don't believe that they can decide or change anything, because most people just don't care enough.
The gerenal QoL is still too high and it has to get much worse before the people wake up.
The only thing OWS can do right now is raise awareness.

From an outside point of view, the present US society is so fundamentally divided that I'm not sure how they can overcome their counterposed paradigms to unite and solve the mess they're in.
Now would be the time to reform the system before it collapses, but the majority doesn't get it.

I pretty much gave up hope on this... most people only learn through suffering.

Originally posted by ColCurious

I agree that things have to change and I welcome OWS as an expression of discontent.
However, I don't believe that they can decide or change anything, because most people just don't care enough.
The gerenal QoL is still too high and it has to get much worse before the people wake up.
The only thing OWS can do right now is raise awareness.

From an outside point of view, the present US society is so fundamentally divided that I'm not sure how they can overcome their counterposed paradigms to unite and solve the mess they're in.
Now would be the time to reform the system before it collapses, but the majority doesn't get it.

I pretty much gave up hope on this... most people only learn through suffering.

It's unfortunate that you say you have given up hope, but by the very fact you are posting in threads like this indicates to me that you do actually have hope. To me hope is something that stands in the face of improbability, and that's exactly what we face right now as a global society.

Someone else posted that the view of this movement is largely US-centric, when this is actually a global issue, and I agree with that. However it is my opinion that people have to focus on what is within their reach, and in the US that is something inherently US-centric. People in other countries also have to deal with issues that are centered around their spheres of the globe, and I see nothing wrong with that. To me this is why the occupy movement expanded all over the world rather than everyone coming to occupy Wall Street.

To be entirely honest, I am no fan of democracy, and I really don't think that system is the apex of societal evolution. However it is a system available to us at the present time, and it makes sense to me to play with the hand you are dealt. Consequently we have to get the majority of people to reach some level of argumentative stasis before we can even start talking about solutions. We have to get a majority of the collective to admit that there are problems in the way we are running things right now.

However to get this kind of stasis, people need to speak to one another, and not just people who already agree. The idea of this thread is to let those of us who disagree with the occupiers that their voices are equally as important, if not even moreso. They need to be part of the occupy movement to keep it in check. I think it was Patton who said, "if everyone thinks the same thing, someone is not thinking." This applies to activists just as much as it applies to sheople.

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

 

In NYC you pay half a million for a shack. Wake up hon!

Oh boohoo honey. I grew up in the mountains of WV, in a house that my Dad built with his own hands. We lived in a motor home for the three years that it took him to build it. We always had food, and always had heat. It's getting to the point that people can't work to support themselves. It's happening in places where it shouldn't be happening, and that's a problem for me.

edit on 3-11-2011 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)

You misunderstand if you think I want pity, and I am not boo hooing. I just wasn't born "lucky". Unless you consider that I was born in the USA, which I do agree is lucky compared to the rest of the world's population.

I was saying that it is not because I am "lucky" that I don't support the OWS. Believe it or not, there are plenty of other reasons. I know that is hard for you to see.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

very soon, even this thread will be filled with their armchair envy/hatred, self centred, bombostic egoistical diatribes and much more.

Thank you for making my earlier point.

You claim that if we don't agree with OWS, we have armchair envy and hatred. We must be self-centered. We can only give bombastic, egotistical diatribes.

I don't support the OWS group because of the attitudes I see toward anyone who doesn't support the OWS group.

Originally posted by wagnificent

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
I'll bite.

It is VERY immature of the OWS supporters to constantly say things along the lines of "It's obvious...if you don't support us, it means there is something WRONG with YOU."

*We're Sheeple.
*We're stupid.
*We're sitting in front of the computer in our undies eating doritos.
*We're shills.
*We're plants, sent in by TPTB to complain.
*We're obviously part of the 1%.
*We're greedy, and don't care about anyone.

This argument is a failure, and makes those of you making it look petty.

Can you not understand that I can disagree with you without being ANY of the things I listed above?????

Your post exemplifies exactly what I'm describing. You cherry-picked from my post and misrepresented it, then you added in things I never said or even insinuated. I said nothing about you being wrong in any way other than the futility of complaining on a forum. I did say that dissent is necessary, and your dissent is no exception. I also pointed out the consequences of not participating in this movement whether you dissent against the government or the protesters.

I did call people who choose not to participate "sheople." Is it invalid to say that a person who has given up their potential for leadership is choosing to be a follower?

I said nothing about stupidity, shills, TPTB, greed or the 1% whatsoever.

The things I pointed out as obvious were not intended to support any particular view, and I don't think they provided any such support.

I did say that if you are only sitting behind a computer complaining, you are are unlikely to have your grievances heard by those involved in the movement. Is this not true?

I agree that your interpretation of my argument is a petty failure, but your interpretation of my argument bears little resemblance to my actual argument.

I didn't reply only to you. The arguments I listed are things I have seen OWS supporters say all over ATS, and I am sure you have seen those threads as well. The dorito comment, for example...I got that straight out of another thread.

I choose to participate differently. I was active in several tax day tea party rallies in my community over the past few years. I have contacted my representatives. You may not want the same things I want, but I also want to see change. So see....I may not support OWS, but I am not "sheeple" or "sheople" (I've seen both spellings.)

I'm just VERY tired of the idea that there can only be two types of people: those who support OWS and the bad guys. THAT IDEA IS ALIENATING MANY OF US WHO HAVE SHOWN IN THE PAST THAT WE ARE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Yes, I was just shouting.

reply to post by wagnificent
Actually, I know quite a bit about OWS now. I created threads in order to learn and educate myself.

And I have.

OWS is a naive movement that wants bigger government and more government control. They support a larger influence of government over business.
sites.google.com...

Here's a great site (above), I did a small breakdown of their points in another thread of mine. The Cute Baby Kitten thread.

OWS is not for me. I'm for smaller gvernment, personally.

But good luck with your big government thing.

reply to post by wagnificent

I have given up hope that we as a global society can reform the current system right now.

You said that it takes the majority of people to see that there are problems with the status quo to start working on solutions... I agree, but I doubt that this is possible right now.
The majority in the US are still doing way too good to see the problems and the same applies for Germany and for other EU countries over here.

I read that some critics of OWS insist that they are part of the 53% (paying income tax) and not the 99%... and I guess they are right, until they're not.

I am in agreement with the rest of your post... all I'm saying is that those in denial of the current situation need to feel the crisis themselves... they need a good "slap in the face" to wake up and realize what is going on.

Originally posted by malcr

This has already degenerated and we are'nt even past page 1! One thing I would like to remind people about. The protests are worldwide not just US. So when US folks come out with the usual US centric problems and solutions (either side of the argument) they forget the bigger picture.

We are in a global economy and it is failing for the vast majority of people of the world. It's all about too few people with too much wealth and power, even the arab spring is all about that, just more extreme due to governments being dictatorships.

You do bring up an important and relevant point. OWS is not just happening within US centric circles, but on a GLOBAL level, which is a truth, reality and something every human on Earth can watch and see.

OWS started in US, based upon the 99% sufferings, and thousands of americans with their free will and ruled by their conscience, went full swing into OWS, and are not simply armchair critics unlike the anti-OWS whom right now are self centredly justifying their own pathetic whinny actions in comfort and lamblasting these courageous man and women braving the extreme cold and bitter conditions to get the 99%'s voices heard.

These folks in OWS acknowledges there are problems and errors in the current system to be resolve within the american nation, in order to achieve the aims that every HUMAN on Earth seek for - peace, justice, equality, shared prosperity, progress and freedom.

But they do not impose their will upon other nations, unlike the 1% whom regularly does.

However, should other fellow human brothers and sisters around the world, regardless if african goatherder, muslim scholar, buddhist priest, catholilc student, garage mechanic, etc, etc, despite every conceivable differences devised by selfish men whom sought to divide us, can relate to such aims, is FULLY WELCOME to make a stand with OWS but only upon their own free will and not forced, just as OWS stands alongside the courageous fellow human brother and sisters in arab spring to get their freedom and brave worse circumstances in blood and lives lost than others.

What America is today was not the work of one man alone, nor corporations or principalities, but the work of untold millions whom left the legacy of honest labour and conscience to every generations. They were not of noble blood, only simple folks like you and me, to build a better society and world for every human whom is equal to another. It is not only in the sacred US Constitution that americans derived such truths.

It lays also in the greatest monument of our times - the awe inspiring Statue of Liberty, not an idol but only a symbol of mankind's freedom from tyranny, so relevant even in this modern age, of common masses comming together to create a better world for all mankind, as our forefathers had done, to progress, evolve, freely but with responsibilities, and espacially to leave NONE behind. This is the 99%.

Whomever you are, and wherever you are, tyrants and elites alike whom had discarded you and left you to rot, you are one of us when you share our aims and rebuild a better world today, if not for ourselves, it will be for the innocent next generations, this time for the world, the very model our forefathers from all over the world came to USA to create for us all today...

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Well said chum, the 99% movement is indeed catching on worldwide, the UK protest has managed to get the existence of the "Corporation of London" into the public eye. which is surely a good thing.
Despite our differences (perceived or learned) we all must admit that something major is happening in the world today. Our leaders have clearly decided to put greed and power above everything else and most people would agree that this is warped and wrong.
A tiny 1% control everything and make every decision concerning the future direction of mankind and some people think that this is going to lead us into new wars and poverty for the many. History has shown that unless we hold our leaders to account then they will screw us all over time and time again.

Our various political structures have been destroyed by the advent of the corporation, the 1% own the system and we are cut out of the loop. Despite what the media says they aren't even anti-capitalism, they are anti greed and destruction for the sake of a bottom line and how anyone can't get behind that is beyond me.

Guy Fawkes Rocks!!
Viva La Revolution

reply to post by wagnificent


Im glad someone done this i mentioned in a thread recentley i was considering doing the same! S&F


Its real straight forward (for those not interested in understanding it)

Everyone knows bankers/Government have been particularly corrupt and spent our money un lawfully..
A whole load of people on here complained about it for a while because complaining is easy....

Now people are protesting because they are sick of the above mentioned corruption...
People now post on here bad mouthing it because they are scared of the outcome...


These people are not hippies
these people are not commies
these people do not have a socialist agenda

These are normal People standing up to a long drawn out explotation of the masses through taxes and closed underhanded banking and trading deals....

The people who try to make out OWS are simply either -

Scared
Disinfo
Stupid.



Just my thoughts (and every sane western exploited human beings)

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by wagnificent

 

Actually, I know quite a bit about OWS now. I created threads in order to learn and educate myself.

And I have.

OWS is a naive movement that wants bigger government and more government control. They support a larger influence of government over business.
sites.google.com...

Here's a great site (above), I did a small breakdown of their points in another thread of mine. The Cute Baby Kitten thread.

OWS is not for me. I'm for smaller gvernment, personally.

But good luck with your big government thing.

edit on 3-11-2011 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

I challenge anyone to find a talking point that everyone in the occupy movement agrees on. I have yet to find anything that is universally accepted other than a general sense that something is wrong. Yes there are those who want big government, and yes there are those who want more government control. However they don't want that because there is no "they." "They" is a generalization that lumps together people from all walks of life and attempts to assign attributes as if everyone has reached a consensus. If "they" have reached some kind of consensus, I have not gotten the memo. If there is indeed a consensus, it is even more reason for me to re-assert my original post, stressing the importance of dissent.

If people have a profound disagreement with what the occupy movement is asserting, then withdrawing from the movement or trying to otherwise undermine it only serves to perpetuate the division of our society. This is the United states, not the Loosely Affiliated states. The complete failure of one group of people to even understand the perspective of another group, much less to actually resolve differences, is exactly what we see in our government representatives. Finger pointing, isolation, ridicule, stereotyping... which of these things does anything constructive? What I am suggesting is that everyone gets off their high horse and listens to the subjective experiences of other people, regardless of personal biases. Just listen. Listening is something most Americans find extremely difficult and even painful, but it is necessary for resolving problems. I'm no exception. However I have found that when I can manage to actively listen to another person's perspective, they are much more willing to hear what I have to say. Many times my own perspective changes before I even say anything.

This is all I'm suggesting: rather than complaining and demonizing the "them," just go talk with "them." And if you find that you deeply disagree with the other people, that's fine, but disengaging is tantamount to throwing gasoline on a fire. As I said before, these protests are unlikely to fade away any time soon, so maybe we should all just check our egos and try to interact with other human beings and figure out how we can move forward.

For the record, I understand why the hippies are protesting, but I don't agree with how they are doing it.

For starters, why did they take it upon themselves to speak for all when they decided to call themselves the 99%?
That to me is a form of greed.

So to answer the question at hand, all you need to do is look at the current score card:

And the insanity continues, will children are dying around the world, people are starving, killed by wars, inprisoned, beat.

We keep on yelling at each other and behing childish, i am for peaceful protest, and an end to this insanity.

We are living in a dying world, can we plz try to save, and once its saved we can fight over who saved the word.

just my 2 cent

thanks op good thread

reply to post by Alxandro


Is that a joke?

How many rapes and deaths have happened at occupy movements?

I understand why most people are supporting OWS by physical assembly. What I don't understand is whtpy people inflat the numbers of people actually protesting and the total number of cities with OWS rallly's.

Because I work I was only going up on the weekends and even than I had to drive 40 miles to Seattle to get there. Why I stopped going to the Seattle Rally?

Day Two, three men and a lady decided it was ok to burn a couple of US Flags. After the flags where recovered and the individuals talked to things just got increasingly stupid. One gentleman called the police because he felt by us taking the flags away we where assaulting them. That didn't work out in his favor which made him very upset.

From that point the groups lost focus and we became our own worst enemies. Not to many people stayed after that incident. Although I'm hearing nothing about OWS in the whole state I know they're several groups passing out fliers about Nov. 5th.

I agree with the OP and most people regarding this Topic. But we each have our limits and although I truly believe things need to change, I don't think we should burn down our country to do it. I also think people are more likely to get results by assembling in Washington D.C. or other State Capitals.

Just my two cents..

reply to post by GhettoRice


I'm not sure about deaths, but there have been at least two reported rapes that have occurred at Occupy protests. One of the victims was a 14 year old girl.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Jebus, sad to hear.

I still think the list is a perfect example of having the blinders on though.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by GhettoRice

 

I'm not sure about deaths, but there have been at least two reported rapes that have occurred at Occupy protests. One of the victims was a 14 year old girl.

I know there has been reports.. however we can not gaurentee these people have anything to actually do with the movement.. like if i was a criminal an i new there was gonna be alot of people in the one place.. thats where i would go to commit some crime-ing

take festivals, there usually reports of rape/death/theft at festivals.. doesnt mean everyone there is some kind of raping theiving death dealer... we dont stop having the festivals because of these one of occurances....



that list the other poster put up has some funny things written on it i mean.. flag desecration (its there property they are ruining) and mindless chanting.... lol

reply to post by GonzoSinister


Spot on,

I got a checklist too