NEar Death Experience? It's all in your head son.

People in comas and unconscious people have also reported hearing everything that went on around them while they were unconscious or in coma.

Mom always told us to never say anything around an unconscious person or a person in a coma (medical or induced) that you wouldn't want them to hear if they were awake.

Originally posted by nineix
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

You definitely have not had a Psychedelic trip before or had a spiritual experience; I gather that from re-reading your post.

Definitely huh? So, now you're the world authority on knowing exactly what kinds of recreation I did and didn't participate from the ages of 14 - 22?
Alright then.

You might want to take notice of the T & C rules regarding talking about recreational chemical intake.
I will thus not discuss any personal experiences on that front.

Whatever the case. Chemical substances will mess you and your brain up, some, in rather particular ways to rather particular predictable effect.
It's not the spirit, or any other kind of spooky hoodoo. It's the chemical substance making the brain go haywire.

How hard is that to understand?

Every night when you go to sleep there is a stage where '___' is released into your body from the Pineal Gland. This is a completely natural substance and if it does mess you and your brain up than that would mean that every single person on this planet is messed up from a chemical substance. You're nothing but a druggie using '___' every night!

reply to post by FPB214

Please show us where these "case studies" are. Thank you.

Here is a yahoo question about what happens when the brain flatlines:
answers.yahoo.com...

It looks like people here don't want the science because they want to continue to believe whatever fantasy they believe in. I believe we make fantasies because reality is harsh. It's hard to like his reality. Some people are overt about how they entertain their fantasies. They're the type that escapes rather than believes. The others believe their fantasies and it's more conspicuous. Either way, this reality isn't easy. We deal with it in similar ways, though.

I don't know of any evidence that shows people had their NDE AFTER their brain flatlined. As the link above mentions, EEG and EKG are not normally something a doctor will attach to someone. So ti's unlikely that there's any reliable data out there. All of hte evidence i've seen says that if a brain flatlines then you're dead because the heart needs the brain to restart OR you were lucky enough to be in very very cold water. And even then, the longest known case that I am aware of presently was about 3 1/2 hours (she had been stuck in a crack in the snow with icey water). But she had been given cpr/oxygen/etc. I watched a video about it. Was given the best medical care.

Here is what happened to her:
www.webmd.com ...

Lazarus Syndrome (there're about 38 confirmed cases worldwide):
en.wikipedia.org...

Basically, if hte brain dies then you're truly dead. A flatline, as it's commonly known, is whne your heart stops beating. That is clinical death, not true death. But the brain is still alive several minutes afterward. The longer it's without fresh glucose and oxygen the more damage it will suffer and the less likely it will be able to send/receive signals to/from the heart. People have a greater chance of surviving if they receive CPR that focuses on the heart and fresh oxygen (in the blood) from a machine. The problem is that all of this only helps to preserve them, as it cannot restore them. Only when the brain and heart are fully communicating can they return to us.

This incredibly old information, is also very biased, and not scientific protocol. In science, they may research whatever whatever brain chemical they wish and procure results. However to then say as a credo, their results mean: A, B, C. when they don't mean in the least, and should have led to more questions and more accountabilty, is not science its pseudo science.

The '___' the brain releases in non NDE experiences, ie, their studies, was experienced as distortions, much like an drug trip. Unlike all the testimony on NDE's, which was crystal clear, enhanced consciousness. Where those born blind could see and report the activity around them and then more, what happens in between this world and the next. Super clear consciousness.

Their idea of reporting outcomes is simply to IGNORE THE DATA THAT DOESNT FIT THEIR CONCLUSION. And their conclusion isn't factoids, but just assumptions, and false ones, they've gathered on experiments that were limited in conductivity.

Study real NDE's and note the difference.

And to assume the pineal releases something to make people have far out experiences while dying, instead of being the gateway it is, is rather a large assumption. Science isn't supposed to be making ASSUMPTIONS.

Heres a different "theory", the pineal and '___' is a seat of the soul and you enter and exit the tunnel/gateway there, in addition while alive, you can meditate, obtain OBE's, out of body experiences, and multi dimensional experiences, natural, or with drugs.

Its not science to choose your favorite theory our of a list of several possiblities and then DECLARE YOUR CHOICE TO THE WORLD AS FACT. That is called Credo and a complete misuse of science for propaganda.

The Vatican has a huge unopened pineal statue right out front, with Egyptian heiroglyphs and statues.

The en.wikipedia.org...

The Menorah is used in Hanukkah, and bears a very strong resemblance to a certain sage plant that obviously had much to do with their mystery school Kabbalah. Though they want our pineals to remain immature, closed and green.

They have a very strong vested interest in lying to the public, misusing public funds to conduct experiments that are not Scientific but propaganda, because having masses wake up, would put their whole pyramid system ponzy scheme in jeopardy.

Now, when my son had an NDE, he was very very ill, for days. When he was out of body, he was given a choice to stay or go home. He was super consciousness, all was light, though it was nightime and he could hear a pin drop miles away. He chose to stay and help us, he knew he was needed.

When he woke up, 100% cured.

reply to post by Unity_99

Sorry, what you're peddling here along others is not science.

It's wishful thinking. It's fantasy. It makes me feel sad for you.

We won't save lives by believing in santa claus.

I know this world sucks. -I- can't change it. I wish I could.

How many have died because their luck had failed them?

It makes me angry too. But... I am helpless. Peace.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Peddling????

I am NOT peddling my dear. I am pointing out, as my uncle was a physcist, and my father a science teacher, WHAT SCIENCE IS.

Science is a body of enquiry. When you have an outcome: You have a list of 10, or more possibilities and probabilities to explore to explain your outcome.

If you don't do that, you are peddling propaganda.

Scientists would never draw a conclusion and then say, its all in your head. Their experiments only proved what shamans have known for years, and the hippy era as well. Take substances that increase the pineal and you'll have experiences. But that doesnt explain the pineal or why. Nor as as scientist may they choose their favorite theory on the list and promote it as fact.

Quite Peddling PSUEDO SCIENCE.

reply to post by Unity_99

You're milking BS.

But I can't stop it.

People are hurting and want an explanation.

So they turn to fantasy. Some escape. Some believe.

But it's all BS. Fantasy is a drug.

Science is too factual for us. The truth hurts too much.

Anyway, going back to my fantasy land where I push thoguhts about death to the back of my mind. I don't believe like the others do. They believe in a fantasy after-life. In my own way, I'm not any different than them. Instead of believing that death is something other than what it actually is, I just push it out of my mind and absorb myself in a different fantasy altogether.

Nobody said death is easy.

And you know what? You can't stop me. I can't stop you either.

reply to post by jonnywhite


You must have an enormous problem with reading and comprehension. Reread what I wrote. The only peddler of anything is you.

I can tell who is a real poster and who isn't by the way certain people twist information. The very agenda they're on they fob off on someone who is discussing the difference between studies and outcomies, theories and facts, and what science is. And that Science does not take one possible answer that could explain the data, out of a list and then report that one as fact. and still remain Science.

I know this for a fact. My uncle was a scientist. Science is a body of enquiry, not credo.

There is propaganda there. Its cold hard factoids.

But you twisted it. So that explains why you post on ATS, or reveals you are incapable of logic and reading with comprehension.

I guess I am the only one that read the article. Otherwise no one would be arguing. There is life after death...if you don't know this fact...research it. There is no logical reason why we would not live on after this existence. If anyone thinks you just die and thats it.... OK..fine...think what you may but be prepared to keep on a living.

www.sciencedaily.com...
World's Largest-Ever Study Of Near-Death Experiences


Near Death Experience - Blind woman SEES while OUT OF BODY

scienceonyourside.blogspot.com...

ear Death The Blind See
During clinical death 80% of the blind report being able to see. That is correct; your eyes are not deceiving you. This holds true even for people who are born blind and have never experienced vision. This is the stunning finding of research done by Dr. Kenneth Ring, Professor of Psychology at the University of Connecticut and his co-researcher Sharon Cooper. Dr. Ring co-founder of the International Association for Near Death Studies has been researching near death experiences (NDE) for over 20 years and is a well-known author in the field.

www.2012changesarenow.com...

During clinical death 80% of the blind report being able to see. That is correct; your eyes are not deceiving you. This holds true even for people who are born blind and have never experienced vision. This is the stunning finding of research done by Dr. Kenneth Ring, Professor of Psychology at the University of Connecticut and his co-researcher Sharon Cooper. Dr. Ring co-founder of the International Association for Near Death Studies has been researching near death experiences (NDE) for over 20 years and is a well-known author in the field. ...

Interestingly, when the blind have NDE’s they report exactly the same phenomena. They see both this world and the next. When people who are born blind recover their sight through a natural process, such as a medical procedure, they report an initial period of disorientation because it takes their minds sometime to learn how to interpret the new visual input. This is exactly what the blind report during an NDE. Those who were blind from birth report having difficulty relating to what they are seeing, whereas those who lost sight later in life immediately recognize the return of vision.

BBC: PAM SEES GOD. NDE Pam Reynolds. Amazing! Full version!

This one interviews the medical team.

www.time.com...

This article shows the different, THEORIES, whilst they are discussing, the anomalies in data that doesnt fit the DRUG Induced theory.

The second camp is as adamant that no theory based purely on the workings of the brain can account for all elements of an NDE, and that we should consider the mind-bending possibility that consciousness can exist independent of a functioning brain, or at least that consciousness is more complex than we suppose. Though NDEs are driven in part by neurochemistry and psychology, says Auckland psychiatrist Karl Jansen, it has "underlying mechanisms in more mysterious realms that cannot currently be described."

These are the best of times in the NDE field, with research gathering pace and new insights emerging. University of Virginia psychiatrist Bruce Greyson reported recently on a tantalizing investigation into whether the observations people claim to make during an NDE (details of their resuscitation, the color of a nurse's shoes) are in fact accurate. Meanwhile, University of Kentucky neurophysiologist Kevin Nelson theorizes that NDEs are what can happen when a particular sleep state intrudes on the imperiled brain. "I wouldn't say it's definitive," says Nelson. "But it's an intriguing hypothesis that answers a great deal."

Note the words, Hypothesis.

Gee that almost sounds like science. Unlike the title of this thread!!!

reply to post by jonnywhite


I said it was a long time ago when I read about it, the man being dead for days. I tried finding it but I can't. As for other NDE's, there are stories everywhere about them. I love science, but science cannot and will not ever explain everything. I don't believe in "fantasies", I believe in actuality. I love "this" reality, it offers it's beauty in every way. I don't believe in an afterlife just because this "reality" is harsh. This is physical existence, it's supposed to be that way. Hell, if there was more evidence that was provided that displayed to me when we die there is nothing, then maybe I would give that a second thought, but there is too much evidence supporting life after death. I have experienced things, even within the last 2 years that neither you, or any scientist would be able to explain. I can share with you if you'd like.

today.msnbc.msn.com...

That was one of the stories I saw on TV a long time back. They discussed it further on TV, with the doctors talking about how they don't understand how he could hear there conversations while his brain was dead and so on. This kid was dead, legally. They were a few hours away coming to begin collecting his organs. He described hearing their conversations and floating above his body seeing everything that was going on, after his brain was DEAD. That was not in the article, but it was in the episode of what I was watching.

reply to post by nineix


First, the reports says it requires a variety of different chemicals to simulate.

Second, the report says that these various chemicals CAN cause, euphoria, tunnel of light, etc.

Third, it makes an enormous leap in suggesting that, for example, euphoria and tunnel of light are DEFINING of near death experiences, and further that hovering over the body is DEFINING of an OBE.

Lastly, all of the presumed hallmarks of many profound spiritual experiences can can be repeated with well-known (and presently illegal) chemicals. That the brain can process a spiritual experience, and even made conducive to doing so, does not equate to the brain creating it

But the content of NDE (or any other expereince which the subject finds to be "profound") is not at all predictable. In fact, my own NDE (at a very young age) was neither euphoric nor did it include relatives or even a tunnel of light. Most of my spiritual activity has not at a been typical of "popular" portrayals, but are very much in line with common experiences.

There are tons of case studies on this. Perhaps the researchers might have been well served to have read some of them?

This report sounds like Grad-students at play and with an agenda; not like good science.

reply to post by nineix
I don't believe everything can be explained scientifically,especially the human experience and definitely don't believe the bbc

Originally posted by FPB214
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

I said it was a long time ago when I read about it, the man being dead for days. I tried finding it but I can't. As for other NDE's, there are stories everywhere about them. I love science, but science cannot and will not ever explain everything. I don't believe in "fantasies", I believe in actuality. I love "this" reality, it offers it's beauty in every way. I don't believe in an afterlife just because this "reality" is harsh. This is physical existence, it's supposed to be that way. Hell, if there was more evidence that was provided that displayed to me when we die there is nothing, then maybe I would give that a second thought, but there is too much evidence supporting life after death. I have experienced things, even within the last 2 years that neither you, or any scientist would be able to explain. I can share with you if you'd like.

today.msnbc.msn.com...

That was one of the stories I saw on TV a long time back. They discussed it further on TV, with the doctors talking about how they don't understand how he could hear there conversations while his brain was dead and so on. This kid was dead, legally. They were a few hours away coming to begin collecting his organs. He described hearing their conversations and floating above his body seeing everything that was going on, after his brain was DEAD. That was not in the article, but it was in the episode of what I was watching.

edit on 3-11-2011 by FPB214 because: (no reason given)

Well his brain was obviously not dead was it, he was mis-diagnosed. I also see nothing in that article that verifies his claims of hearing conversations and floating above his body - maybe he was just dreaming?

All these stories "he saw a shoe on the roof that he could never have known about!" etc are never accompanied by links or any verification at all. All urban myths IMO.

reply to post by nineix


You should read fabric of the cosmos. That book restates that everything happening is always happening now, that there is no past nor future, so to say that I'm going to die twenty years from now implies that death is here with me now (sorta like the ending space odyssey). Anyways death exists inside our neural pathways just like everything does. . . you already dead brudda you just yet to realize it, what your expiercieng now as well as what youll be experiencing in your "after life" (now) is your own manifestation. --------just think the ending of space oddesey or eat some acid or mushrooms, try not using your own imagination, that'll just confuse you and make you think i'm a dumbass.

reply to post by EnzoD


Where does it say he was "mis-diagnosed"?

"But 36 hours after the accident, doctors performed a PET scan of his brain and informed his parents, along with other family members who had gathered to keep vigil at the hospital, that there was no blood flowing to Zack’s brain; he was brain-dead."

"Doctors have no explanation for why Dunlap is alive"

Also if you read my reply, you would see I stated those claims he made were on the TV program which I saw it first, the article I found just covered the gist of it.

I think instead of arguing back and forth if it is real or not...one must take a look at ALL the hard evidence that suggests it is real and it happens all the time and has happened.

What is even more realistic is that it can be manipulated as well in studies. We can make our self get in a trance or hypnotic state and command our manifestations in the after life. We do not have to be bound by this realm....we can astral travel.

For those of you who are denying this fact or will deny it....

..PLEASE..

.. do us all a favor and try it before you knock it, that is if your mama will let ya.

I know for some it is hard to grasp and maybe you don't want to live on and see your loved ones...but it is true...there IS an after life that is more real than this one.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by nineix

 

Neron's fire randomly as you are dying. Guess what Neron's are?

You mean neurons? Yes they do fire randomly, even while youre alive, so that is a sh*tty explanation because when your brain "flatlines" that means all brain activity has ceased and your are then clinically dead. Oh sure your brain cells are still alive until they start dying and causing brain damage at about 1.5 minutes in, but do not mistake that for actual brain activity because it is not.

The truth is no one knows 100% what happens after we die, its the greatest mystery that will never be solved. The only thing we can do for those of us who believe is have faith and for those who don't have faith? Well you get to find out wether or not hell exists. Personally hell isn't something i want to experience, that or the lake of fire or outter darkness.

Originally posted by MamaJ
I guess I am the only one that read the article.

Otherwise no one would be arguing. There is life after death...if you don't know this fact...research it. There is no logical reason why we would not live on after this existence. If anyone thinks you just die and thats it.... OK..fine...think what you may but be prepared to keep on a living.

Because most people cannot believe in what they cannot see. To them seeing is believing and if they can't see it, it isn't real and doesn't exist to them. To these people once your physical body dies, it is lights out even though in doing this they ignore the fact that the human body runs on electrical impulses from the brain and electricity is energy and energy cannot be destroyed, it only changes form.