Occupy Oakland: Death to Capitalism

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
When your corporate lobbyist owns the Congress person enforcement of said law is complicated as your regulator happens to be in your backpocket means effectively no law can touch you. Ever heard of the phrase "Friends in high places"? This applies to this! Not irrelevant as this is how the skirt the law. Restore clearcut "black and white" to laws with no "grey" areas as companies will time and time again refer to the grey area and not to the law.

Irrelevant. The law is STILL on the books and is actionable. Using your analogy it would not matter if the factory were union or non-union, only that they had the nefarious 'lobbyist' putting Congresspeople in their back pockets to avoid prosecution. More laws lead to higher production costs and more job loss.

The SCUM have been systematically sending all global manufacturing to China to maximize profits as what they pay people for a day's work stateside they can they pay the same amount for 7 times the amount of labour and payout that once a week. Any nation who tries to get its manufacturing base back gets threatened by The SCUM. Take them out and we all can move the jobs lost back stateside.

No one makes you buy goods from China, if you do not like the policy stop buying Chinese goods. Innovative and agressive companies can still make a great deal of money by manufacturing in the United States. Being proactive, instead of reactive, makes a great deal of difference.

The recent college grad or HS grad did not have a hand in the economy as they haven;t been given a chance to entre the workforce and there should be laws requiring companies to hire.

Really? More laws? Laws to 'force' people to hire? What else would you like your government to force people to do? Society is not obligated to support you through life, nor should it be. There is no reason for anyone to have to hand you a job. You need to earn the job on your merits.

OSHA is circumventable it is not funny. When lobbyists compete with entities like OSHA - OSHA will always lose.

Give me some examples of lobbyists overturning worker safety laws or circumventing OSHA.

Welcome fellow Jerseyian! Jersey City here!

The land of stupifyingly high taxes.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


1. Laws are only enforcable when you don't have the money to buy your way around them.
2. When nothing is being made anywhere else makes buying from somewhere else other then China really complicated and hard.
3. Yes we need laws to make companies hire. 9.1% official and 16.5% unofficial unemployment stats beg to differ.
4. Walmart is a primo example fo a company skirting and circumventing OSHA!
5. Yup, amongst the highest in the nation!

Jersey City PD force has been cut back from about 1,200 to a mere 660. That's nearly 40% reduction in recent years, all due to lack of tax revenue coming in.

reply to post by The_Oracle


Which is exactly why it should either be ended or restructured so that greed cannot crash the system the way it's been doing now for years!

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
1. Laws are only enforcable when you don't have the money to buy your way around them.

That makes zero sense as evidence by people who do have money that have been convicted of crimes.

2. When nothing is being made anywhere else makes buying from somewhere else other then China really complicated and hard.

Then you are not trying hard enough. I constantly look to see where items I purchase are manufactured. I consciously endeavor to purchase as little as possible from Chinese manufacturers.

3. Yes we need laws to make companies hire. 9.1% official and 16.5% unofficial unemployment stats beg to differ.

And what if they do not need the added laborers? Do you just start forcing people to hire unneeded employees? What does this doe to the cost of goods and services if businesses have to retain unnecessary workers?

4. Walmart is a primo example fo a company skirting and circumventing OSHA!

Give specific examples.

5. Yup, amongst the highest in the nation!

No, it is the highest and is causing more people and jobs to flee to other states. I pay enough in property taxes to buy a car every year.

Jersey City PD force has been cut back from about 1,200 to a mere 660. That's nearly 40% reduction in recent years, all due to lack of tax revenue coming in.

New Jersey does not have a revenue problem, it has had a long standing spending problem. It is a microcosom of the federal problem.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


1. Yes it does, when you've got money you could buy your way around any law on the books.
2. Find me an American made cell phone, laptop, or computer and guess what? You can't!
Find me a household appliance like a tv or a refrigerator that was made stateside? You can't!
The only thing we pretty well have stateside that is a big ticket item that is wholly American made is cars.
3. No, do not force companies to hire people that have no work for them, what you then do is make it easier for a startup to get it's funding and financing so that it can begin to put people to work.
4. Walmart, Bernie Madoff Securities, Goldman-Sachs, Bank Of America, The Federal Reserve just to name a few!
5. OK, 2nd highest in the nation behind NY!
6. NJ has always had both a revenue and management problem. If we had proper management apparatus for which to correctly handle the money then both items would be solved using one stone.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
1. Yes it does, when you've got money you could buy your way around any law on the books.

So how do you explain people with money that have been convicted of crimes or corporations that have payed fines for breaking the law?

2. Find me an American made cell phone, laptop, or computer and guess what? You can't!

Motorola manufactures in Mount Pleasant, Iowa.

Find me a household appliance like a tv or a refrigerator that was made stateside? You can't!

Dacor and General Electric both manufacure kitchen appliances in the United States, there are many more. Sony has an assembly plant in San Diego for the XBR line.

The only thing we pretty well have stateside that is a big ticket item that is wholly American made is cars.

There are many more items than just cars. You need to be more dilligent in your search.

3. No, do not force companies to hire people that have no work for them, what you then do is make it easier for a startup to get it's funding and financing so that it can begin to put people to work.

You do not achieve this with more governmental regulation, you do it with LESS.

4. Walmart, Bernie Madoff Securities, Goldman-Sachs, Bank Of America, The Federal Reserve just to name a few!

I said specific, you know, with details. How did/does Walmart circumvent OSHA? How does Goldman-Sachs circumvent OSHA? How does the Federal Reserve circumvent OSHA? I have no clue why you would even list places/persons such as Goldman, Madoff and the Fed as companies that circumvent OSHA safety laws, but if you have specific details list them.

5. OK, 2nd highest in the nation behind NY!

Still nothing to be proud of, we continue to loose jobs to other, more competitive states (and countries).

6. NJ has always had both a revenue and management problem. If we had proper management apparatus for which to correctly handle the money then both items would be solved using one stone.

Incorrect. Unlike the federal budget, which is invariably in deficit-with no solutions except borrowing-the State of New Jersey is required to have a balanced budget without borrowing for operations. New Jersey spends more than it makes. Much of this can be blamed on our radical Supreme Court and mandated spending.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Sony is based out of Japan.

1. They were caught on misdermeanor's and got slapped on the wrist while their even larger and sinister crimes remain well hidden!

2. With parts from The Congo.

3. Again, with parts imported from Africa and Asia!

4. Specifics is look at the 08 crash, not one prosecution, not one jailing and when you are bankrolling your regulator makes it that much harder for your regulator to do their job as it is always a "Conflict Of Interest"!

5. Remember when Christie cut funding for education and the State Supreme Court overturned it and made him issue it back? This is mismanagement of the highest order, blocking the ARC Tunnel project because that would keep NJ jobs in NJ and cannot be outsourced!

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Sony is based out of Japan.

So what? The XBR is assembled in San Diego.

Another example is Merceds Benz who are based in Germany but nearly all of their sport utilities are manufactured in the United States. It is a German car but it is made HERE.

1. They were caught on misdermeanor's and got slapped on the wrist while their even larger and sinister crimes remain well hidden!

So rich people and corporations never do prison time or pay fines resultant to their activities? Do you realize how juvenile that sounds? Where is Madoff now? He had a little bit of cash laying around, where did that get him? What about Martha Stewart? She had some money too. How about tabaco companies? No fines or judgements there either, right? How about automotive companies? Any of them ever get fined? Do you see how absurd you sound?

2. With parts from The Congo.

So what? It is still assembled here and that means American workers have jobs.

3. Again, with parts imported from Africa and Asia!

Again, see above. Do you honestly think that every component of every item manufactured can originate from the same country? Using your logic you would not really be buying Chinese goods because they import parts for them from other countries.

4. Specifics is look at the 08 crash, not one prosecution, not one jailing and when you are bankrolling your regulator makes it that much harder for your regulator to do their job as it is always a "Conflict Of Interest"!

And this has what to do with OSHA? Stop deflecting. You specifically refered to Walmart, the Federal Reserve, Bernard Madoff and others as having circumvented OSHA. Explain how.

5. Remember when Christie cut funding for education and the State Supreme Court overturned it and made him issue it back? This is mismanagement of the highest order, blocking the ARC Tunnel project because that would keep NJ jobs in NJ and cannot be outsourced!

No, that is judicial legislating. They force other towns to foot the bill for poorer districts and cause New Jersey to have the highest property taxes in the nation.

There was no money in the budget for the ARC tunnel. The Port Authority is supposed to be able to fund all its projects through the tolls and fees it collects from the bridges, railroads, buses, airports, seaports and properties it manages (or is it MIS-manages?). This is another glaring example of why government should run as little as possible. It is wasteful and totally inefficient.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


1.For every foreign company that has shop setup here sends something like 25 - 30c per dollar back home out of nation, this is after taxes, bills, payroll. With a company like Daimler, it makes a cool million a day and has done so for each day for the last like 25 years. Where is that tax revenue, hell, Germany shouldn't have to want for anything on that taxrate alone. They make around $10 Billion a year. That kind of tax revenue with a small populous of 81 Million is a somewhat middle sized population wise means dispensement system infrastructure can remain smaller.
2, They threw Bernie to the wolves the second an inkling of the scandal even was uttered by one person and put him through the second worst ringer in their arsenal. Prison time!
3. You don't understand what companies do to African nations, look at the Blood Diamond trade for examples. Similar tactics are being employed to harvest a certain item that goes into and makes the lcd screen of all electronics functional.
4. Denying people things like healthcare coverage, a decent pay with incremental cost of living increases as they'd like nothing more to see them go, The SEC, CPSC, CFPB, FEMA, EPA, DOA, DOI, Red Cross, Salvation Army!
5. When the banks and corporations are allowed to write the laws like they've been doing for the last hundred years and further nothing will ever change until the pen is effectively taken is from them.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
1.For every foreign company that has shop setup here sends something like 25 - 30c per dollar back home out of nation, this is after taxes, bills, payroll. With a company like Daimler, it makes a cool million a day and has done so for each day for the last like 25 years. Where is that tax revenue, hell, Germany shouldn't have to want for anything on that taxrate alone. They make around $10 Billion a year. That kind of tax revenue with a small populous of 81 Million is a somewhat middle sized population wise means dispensement system infrastructure can remain smaller.

But they are still paying American workers to manufacture prodducts in the United States. Would you prefer they kept all their manufacturing elsewhere?

2, They threw Bernie to the wolves the second an inkling of the scandal even was uttered by one person and put him through the second worst ringer in their arsenal. Prison time!

Which completely disproves your point.

3. You don't understand what companies do to African nations, look at the Blood Diamond trade for examples. Similar tactics are being employed to harvest a certain item that goes into and makes the lcd screen of all electronics functional.

What? Nitrogen trifluoride? You really need to be more specific when you are attempting to make a point.

4. Denying people things like healthcare coverage, a decent pay with incremental cost of living increases as they'd like nothing more to see them go, The SEC, CPSC, CFPB, FEMA, EPA, DOA, DOI, Red Cross, Salvation Army!

Irrelevant. What does any of that have to do with circumventing OSHA as you originally claimed. How many times do I have to request specifics instead of hyperbole?

5. When the banks and corporations are allowed to write the laws like they've been doing for the last hundred years and further nothing will ever change until the pen is effectively taken is from them.

The laws in the country have only gotten lengthier in the past century as evidence by the amount of bureaucracy present in modern America. Businesses flee to other countries due to the oppresive tax rates and over regulation. There is a happy medium between no rules and too many, we are closer to the latter.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


1. With none of that money but Social Security being paid to the Govt using tax breaks to avoid paying property taxes.
2. No it does not, swear your blind allegiance to the banks and Wall Street and you are a God go against them and get the horns!
3. Items harvested from The Congo is cobalt, coltan, cassiterite, copper and gold
www.worldpress.org...
4. Completely relevant, this is why companies jump ship, yes, in order to do business in the United States and to setup a manufacturing plant here you must keep your work conditions sanitary and safe! No other nation on Earth has a better policy that protects workers. That's why you are against it, it protects workers instead of the rich! I get it! Given the chance they'd jump at the chance to defund OSHA.
House caught red handed trying to defund OSHA
healthcareemploymentcounsel.com... -care-act-slash-agency-bud/
You were saying?
5 Laws over the last 25 years has undone a majority of laws that were passed in the 100 yr period prior to it. Over regulation? Are you serious? Companies have proven time and time again that they can't be trusted to watch over their own houses. Allow corporations further control and you will say goodby to lunch breaks, mandatory breaks every 4 hours. No benefits, no workman's compensation, no paid sick or vacation leave, no investment opportunities, no 101(k)'s, no IRA's, no stocks, no future and no hope. Deregulation of any kind? You have got to be flipping kidding me!

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
1. With none of that money but Social Security being paid to the Govt using tax breaks to avoid paying property taxes.

Do you always just make things up to try and prove a point without supplying specifics?

2. No it does not, swear your blind allegiance to the banks and Wall Street and you are a God go against them and get the horns!

You conveniently ignored the other examples I provided which seems to be endemic for you.

3. Items harvested from The Congo is cobalt, coltan, cassiterite, copper and gold
www.worldpress.org...

Cobalt, coltan, cassiterite, copper and gold are NOT used in to make a LCD screen function as you claimed. Nitrogen triflouride is used.

4. Completely relevant, this is why companies jump ship, yes, in order to do business in the United States and to setup a manufacturing plant here you must keep your work conditions sanitary and safe! No other nation on Earth has a better policy that protects workers. That's why you are against it, it protects workers instead of the rich! I get it! Given the chance they'd jump at the chance to defund OSHA.

Show me where I said I was against OSHA. As a matter of fact I said it works well and that we do not need further regulations. You need to stop the class warfare rhetoric that is permeating your thought process. I am not for the 'rich', I am for America where ANYONE can become rich if they work hard enough and do not have the government oppressing their efforts to do so.

House caught red handed trying to defund OSHA
healthcareemploymentcounsel.com... -care-act-slash-agency-bud/
You were saying?

It was not what I was saying but what YOU were saying. You claimed that Madoff, Lehmans, Walmart, etc, had circumvented OSHA. I asked for examples. You still have not given any.

5 Laws over the last 25 years has undone a majority of laws that were passed in the 100 yr period prior to it.

Such as? You are consistently and purposefully vague.

Over regulation? Are you serious?

Yes, completely.

Companies have proven time and time again that they can't be trusted to watch over their own houses.

But you rail about how the 'rich' and 'coporations' can buy their way out of problems so you want the people they are allegedly buying to do more of the monitoring. Which leads to what? More corruption, less corruption, the same amount of corruption? The more laws you pass the more people try to find the loop hole. The codification of regulations is already burdensome and causes more business to flee to other countries. Only a blind man would argue otherwise.

Allow corporations further control and you will say goodby to lunch breaks, mandatory breaks every 4 hours.

Now you are just being hysterical. No one is advocating ending lunch breaks (which are federally mandated) or any other such extremist nonesense. This is just an appeal to emotion.

No benefits, no workman's compensation, no paid sick or vacation leave, no investment opportunities, no 101(k)'s, no IRA's, no stocks, no future and no hope. Deregulation of any kind? You have got to be flipping kidding me!

Why is anyone entilted to or obligated to offer benefits, IRA's and stock options? This is why the federal government is bloated with union employees draining the private sector dry. Double-dipping, padding, excessive pensions at early retirment. No one is entitled to any of that. People need to EARN their way, not have others pave it for them.