Now that Greece is dragging us all under, what is going to happen?

Originally posted by GoalPoster
reply to post by Cosmic4life

 

Exactly . . . unfortunately the hardest thing to rid the world of is greed. But, if we all hunker down and cut their supply lines, we'll be a better society for it.

Unfortunately, that probably won't happen and the beast will grow new and more tentacles in which to snare us common folk!

Seeing that you didn't reply to my latest comment to you, there was no valid point in your "two guys walk into a bar" story then?

thanks for confirming that.

reply to post by Cosmic4life


Also, why the hell should the rest of us have to pay Greece's debts? Do you pay the debts of your neighbours when they can't afford their lifestyles?

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Cosmic4life

 

Also, why the hell should the rest of us have to pay Greece's debts? Do you pay the debts of your neighbours when they can't afford their lifestyles?

because the debt of my neighbours do not affect my life. Yet Greece affects all countries that are in the EU, and that there are agreements in the EU to help eachother out in need.

Let me ask you this.

If you have a business partner who is in debt and they are about the take away all his belongins including his part/share in your company and declare him bankrupt, whould you not help him out from going under and potentionally your company as well?

If you answer no to that, your basicly a selfish person, and the EU would be selfish to if they didn't try to help them out. Yet Greece is about to turn down that help tho.

In assessing 'blame' for the issues facing Greece and in time Italy, Spain and the like, I came across this from CNN Money on the net. The gist of the article is that Europe is letting the banks call the shots instead of setting parameters . . . realist and safe parameters . . . in terms of assessing risk. I've bolded the part that gets my anger boiling because it's not even thinly veiled any longer . . .

The problem has been exacerbated by Europe's adoption of a complex Basel II methodology, which essentially lets bank managers use their own judgment in determining the riskiness of their assets. That is naive. It is in a bank manager's interest to say his assets have low risk, because it enables the bank to maximize leverage and return on equity, which in turn can lead to bigger pay and bonuses. Indeed, even during the Great Recession, as delinquencies and defaults increased, most European banks were saying their assets were becoming safer.

Source

reply to post by Required01


Why is it selfish to ask that Greece pays its own share? If i buy tv's, cars, etc on credit that i cannot afford i would not dream of going around the neighbours asking for help to bail me out of a mess i knowingly got myself into. Even if i got into that mess unknowingly, why is it anyone's responsibility but my own?

No one forced Greece to live beyond its means. They will have to start working to the age of 65 and bail themselves out

Originally posted by Required01

Originally posted by Kelmi
Greece is not draging anything, we are all in deep # in this FIAT money system that is doomed to crash.
Only way out is to print more money or let the system crash, thats all they can do

Sorry but Greece IS dragging the world economy under. Instead of accepting one of the most generous emergencyfunds ever, they feel they need a referendum! Seriously they lost ALL rights to hold a referendum at this point. There economic collapse could be seen coming for at least a year now!

There actions are selfish, they want there people to 'vote' to either DEFAULT or stablize there country and market. In my opinion it's not up to them anymore, they had 2 oppertunities to change and resolve there financial issues/ And what did they do? They go on national stikes! have they got any clue to what a default means? Do they think they will still have there government payed jobs? retirement at 50?

Just by the mention of the referendum the markets tumble down! And this is WITHOUT the outcome, that will happen somewhere in 2012 Greece says! On top of that Italy and Spain aren't doing great either, but there overlooked right now with what's going on in Greece.

....

No doubt Greece's economy is messed up to begin with, but what makes anyone think the public of Greece is going to go along with "austerity measures" that will effectively destroy a generation or more of Greece's way of life. Truth be told, they (the people of Greece) will be better off flipping the bird to the Banks and just starting over then becoming some kind of third world country for multiple generations. Sure their credit will be crap, but it's crap anyway. Eventually, banks will start lending to them again, their greed will force them to.

I think the solution proposed is just as bad as the problem for the citizens of Greece. The kicker is, even with the bailout......it probably won't solve the problem. The banks were already willing to take a 50% haircut on the debt, they will probably end up just writing it all off. Don't make loans like that in the first place. Greece would have been forced to solve the problem nationally, rather than drag the EU down with it. As it stands, Greece has more of the negotiating strength, the rest of the EU just wants to save what they can from this fiasco.

Greece is just one domino too.......

reply to post by pavil


And in the meantime, taxpayers in other countries are committed to these losses. These loans were financed under government schemes i believe - rich investors will not be hit, taxpaying ordinary joe's around the world will carry the can. Meanwhile, Stavros is still protesting (and therefore not working and helping reduce deficits) whilst still expecting to retire at 50 and get generous wages. Im sorry but get real

This attempt to blame Greeks for the corruption of the Western "Economic" Model is doomed to fail.

Packed in row behind Greece are: Italy, France, UK, Spain, Ireland, USA, etc. It is a matter of days we are all going to be victimized by those who did everything to screw things like this. And there will always be those who will hope that denouncing others will bring them the favor from the King.

Greece isn't doing anything. They're using their Democracy to tell the IMF and EU banking cartel to piss off, we won't give you Greece.

I'm sure the Government and Media want you to believe Greece are the guilty party in the wrong here, but they are not.

The EU and IMF scum have purposely over-lended to every nation in Europe. And when they decide to come collecting they're stealing nations entire sovereignty.

This could just as quickly happen to England. You don't think investments can be pulled like what happened in Ireland and Greece?

Everyone in Europe should support Greece.

Yes lets all allow ourselves, our kids and their kids to be enslaved by worthless paper that an elite few use to keep power over the majority.

Screw that!

Pay their debts?? What?? Bundles of worthless paper?

On most bank notes it says "promise to pay the bearer" whatexactly? There is nothing backing it up! Its a lie! Worthless!

So we allow the few to keep us all in virtual slavery on a worthless lie!

Well done to Greece for waking up.

You cant owe what does not exist

reply to post by Flavian


As i was alluding to, we don't have to pay nor should we, the shareholders and creditors should pay.

When business's and banks were raking it in by the bucket-load did we get a cut ? no we didn't, the shareholders and creditors did.

Markets rise and FALL, buyer beware, that's the risk investors take, the financial system is attempting to make us pay for their losses, that's a rigged no-loss game, that is extortion and fraud.

At least here in the UK we got a major sharehold of these banks for our money, in time we will get our money back.

Our problem is the debt and the interest on our debts, which actually we could easily pay off with the 345 billion dollars we currently hold to purchase oil, if oil could be bought with any currency we could pay our debts with the 345 billion dollars and buy oil with pounds Stirling.

I don't know why you think that if Greece defaults that the rest of us will pay, that will not be the case at all, indeed it may encourage the rest of us to follow suit and tell the Banksters and Politocrats where to shove it.

Cosmic...

I once put a few dollars on a internet ponzi hyip that paid 2-3% weekly. I just wanted to try that if i can get in
profit... Well i didnt. Ponzi scheme can run as long as people keeps putting money in it.
I didnt blame those people taking profits out, for crashing the ponzi.

Only differences in Debt money ponzi is that these greedy wan###g banksters dont go to jail for running it.
...And if the system starts to crash they can print print print to keep it going....

reply to post by Flavian


Personally, it's your government's fault for backing loans to Greece. Greece has been an economic basket case for as long as I have been alive. That you let your Government back loans to them was stupid to say the least. What I am saying is Greece's obligations are to it's own people first and foremost. They will do what is in the best interest of the citizens of Greece, not play nice EU partner and bend over and take it. Sorry if it screws up your Country and the Worlds economy, they are not going to take one for the team. I'm not saying it's right, it's just what they will probably do. Ultimately countries act in their own self interest first and foremost. Put yourself in the shoes of a Greek citizen, what would you do?

You shouldn't have backed loans to Greece and you should not have allowed your banks to loan them so much that they put themselves (the banks) at risk.

It's not like you didn't know Greece was a very "iffy" bet, shame on you for doing it in the first place.

That's the one thing I never got about the EU, the southern countries economies for the most part, were a lot more messed up than the northern ones. Sooner or later, this problem was bound to emerge.

reply to post by Cosmic4life


I agree, but the bail out funds have been financed by governmental backing rather than private investors. Therefore, that debt is passed back to us rather than to investors

"Now that Greece is dragging us all under, what is going to happen?"

I'm going to open a champagne and drink for the failure of the thief banking system.

reply to post by pavil


Actually, British banks are exposed to French and German banks. US banks are, i believe, also exposed to British banks and therefore to the French and German banks which in turn are exposed to the Greek debt through government backed bonds. So yes, it does really affect all of us.

I would like to make clear that i am in no way defending the role of banksters and international finance. I am pointing out that this affects all of us and isn't, in this particular case, entirely down to the world of finance. Greece also has to take its share of the responsibility for living way beyond its means

reply to post by Flavian


I know that, we all are guilty of allowing our Govt's and Banks and Investment firms to do these stupid things. In America we let investment firms sell horrible mortgage back securities that they knew were junk as AAA and then covered themselves with Credit Default Swaps that made them money when the MBS tanked. And we bailed out these criminals.

Shame on all of us, I agree.

reply to post by Required01


I'm behind the Greeks the whole way. They NEVER wanted to become part of the EU, only the Greek politicians did.

Greece wants their Sovereign back and not be sold out and controlled by the IMF.

In time, many other countries will follow suit and shut their borders to all immigration....this will happen as the NWO fail in their bid to control the world.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I was under the impression that the Greeks want to be part of the EU. Membership of the Euro is something else entirely. Greece has done very well from EU membership (like Spain - who do you think paid for shiny new roads, etc?)

reply to post by Flavian


To be part of the EU means accepting the Euros and the Greek population never wanted it in the first place.