Greece's Papandreou In Crisis Talks Over Bailout Revolt

Greece's Papandreou In Crisis Talks Over Bailout Revolt

www.bbc.co.uk

Greece's government is holding an emergency meeting following a day of turmoil triggered by PM George Papandreou's announcement of a referendum on the proposed EU bailout.

One MP from the governing Pasok party has resigned, cutting Mr Papandreou's parliament majority to two.

Six other leading party members have called on him to resign.

US and European markets, calmed by last week's EU bailout plan, have fallen sharply since the announcement.

(visit the link for the full news article)

So it seems that all of the extended meetings and talks have surmounted to, essentially nothing.

The Greek people aren't buying the proposed bailout package and why would you with proposals such as the following?:

-New pay and promotion system covering all 700,000 civil servants
-Further cuts in public sector wages and many bonuses scrapped
-Some 30,000 public sector workers suspended, wages cut to 60% and face lay off after a year
-Wage bargaining suspended
-Monthly pensions above 1,000 euros to be cut 20% above that threshold
-Other cuts in pensions and lump-sum retirement pay
-Tax-free threshold lowered to 5,000 euros a year from 8,000

It may very well be what is necessary for Hellas to get back on it's feet however, these are some tough cuts (pending verification on the wages of Greek civil servants).

Also a quote from a joint statement by German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President, Nicolas Sarkozy;

"France and Germany are determined to ensure the full implementation in the quickest time frame, the decisions adopted at the (EU) summit."

Exactly how determined are the combined efforts of France & Germany in implementing this and what extent will they go to?

Former (until quite recently) German economics minister, Rainer Bruederle had the following to say;

"Europe would have to consider turning off the flow of money which was keeping Greece afloat"

What I take from this (dis?)information is that the bailout package for Greece agreed on by EU members has been taken half seriously by the Greek president (based on conditions of the bailout) even WITH a 50% debt write-off (I wish I could get one of those!), the Greek people (perhaps rightfully) see it as detrimental for Greece/Greeks and will vote against it in the pending referendum, it has/will enrage France & Germany, the Greek opposition are adamant about maintaining their EU membership.

What a melting pot, I am awaiting to see what sort of action will be deemed necessary by France & Germany post-bailout rejection. I can see Greece being liquidated to divide amongst creditors.

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

It sounds more like blackmail.
make the cut and sell all the greek state assets to
those nice bank run adventer capitalist groups or
we cut the cash.

Its nice to see a little demorcracy breaking out as
the greek people are realy going through hell right
now and it right for them to have a say in they own
country and its fate.

Lets hope nothing unfortunate happens to greek president
seeing as he just upset a lot of powerful people.

To keep everyone upto date and with people very close to me, far closer than the shirt i wear that elections are to be held within the month. if not early first two weeks of December.

Get your stocks and bonds ready.

reply to post by skuly


Like all the populations of nations affected by the stock market problems over the last few years , the Greek population is NOT at fault for the state of thier nations finances, nor the state of Europe. So it must NOT be thier responsibility to fix it either. Whos responsibility that is , is a matter for further discussion, but the actions of the majority of Greeks cannot be considered responsible for the issues that thier nation is having. Making ANY negative change to thier living circumstances is unjustifiable from a moral stand point, and the moral standpoint should be the one which takes absolute precedence over every other consideration.

The same BS to a lesser degree , happened here in the UK. Crap happened to our economy ,that was in NO WAY the fault of the people of this nation, and yet, our students are now being screwed for almost ten thousand pounds if they want a university education, and our older citizens are now having to retire much later, and will recieve much less from the pensions they have put into for years. Jobs are being cut across the board, from both the public and private sector, and businesses which are institutions of this nation are being sold off , and gutted.

Our government did these things because it was desperate to claw back money due to the huge losses we had. However, there is no way to operate a claw back , if you respect and care for the people of a nation. That crap should never have happened here,and it shouldnt be happening in Greece. I say good on Mr Papandreou for offering his people thier right to democratically choose thier fate.

The EU personages who are calling for the mans head, ought to have forced the richest in thier nations (read : the people who most successfully dodged tax) to cough up the balance, and take the money that the nations are OWED by the banks, by force if required, from the banks, WELL before even DARING to proposition the hard working lower and middle classes in thier respective nations. You take from the top first, and the top MOST. If you want a percentage point out of the poor, you must demand FIFTY percent from the rich.If you are not prepared to do that, then you must do nothing and watch the world collapse.

Originally posted by cerebralassassins
To keep everyone upto date and with people very close to me, far closer than the shirt i wear that elections are to be held within the month. if not early first two weeks of December.

Get your stocks and bonds ready.

Where has this come from? The article states that elections are not scheduled until 2013.

Originally posted by Pirateofpsychonautics

Originally posted by cerebralassassins
To keep everyone upto date and with people very close to me, far closer than the shirt i wear that elections are to be held within the month. if not early first two weeks of December.

Get your stocks and bonds ready.

Where has this come from? The article states that elections are not scheduled until 2013.

I kid you not, the info is real, this isn't a hoax post, nor am i playing some ego trip role here.

(My reply in my opinion doesn't require a second line since my post points to one particular direction.)

reply to post by cerebralassassins


I get your point mate just trying to decipher from your post where this info came from...

There is a lot more going on than that article mentions... well it does mention it without explaining here:

Opinion polls in Greece show that most people do not support the austerity deal. The most recent general strike, on 19-20 October, brought tens of thousands out on to the streets nationwide.

This article shows SOME of the "austerity" measures:

These are some of the austerity measures planned.

TAXATION

Taxes will increase by 2.32bn euros this year, with additional taxes of 3.38bn euros in 2012, 152m euros in 2013 and 699m euros in 2014.
A solidarity levy of between 1% and 5% of income will be levied on households. It will be raised twice next year.
The tax-free threshold for income tax will be lowered from 12,000 euros to 5000 euros, rather than the original plan of 8,000 euros.
There will be higher property taxes.
VAT rates are to rise: the 19% rate will increase to 23%, 11% becomes 13%, and 5.5% will increase to 6.5%.
The VAT rate for restaurants and bars will rise to 23% from 13%.
Luxury levies will be introduced on yachts, pools and cars.
Some tax exemptions will be scrapped.
Excise taxes on fuel, cigarettes and alcohol will rise by one third.
Special levies on profitable firms, high-value properties and people with high incomes will be introduced.

....

PRIVATISATION

The government aims to raise 50bn euros from privatisations by 2015, including:
Selling stakes this year in the betting monopoly OPAP, the lender Hellenic Postbank, port operators Piraeus Port and Thessaloniki Port as well as Thessaloniki Water.
It has agreed to sell 10% of Hellenic Telecom to Deutsche Telekom for about 400m euros.
Next year, the government plans to sell stakes in Athens Water, refiner Hellenic Petroleum, electricity utility PPC, lender ATEbank as well as ports, airports, motorway concessions, state land and mining rights.
It plans further sales to raise 7bn euros in 2013, 13bn euros in 2014 and 15bn euros in 2015.
LABOUR MARKET REFORM

The law will make it easier for companies to cut their payroll costs. It will do this by suspending industry-wide wage bargaining..

See article for more of the measures. Typically "austerity" measures include draconian taxes like seen here, PLUS they give all the nations wealth (natural resources) and tax away IN PERPETUITY! i.e. forever!

The IMF (especially with Soros) go into a country and set up a government that takes on too much debt then "save" the country with these "austerity" measures.

More countries should do like Iceland and jail these politicians and banksters while giving the middle finger to the IMF.

Originally posted by Pirateofpsychonautics
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

I get your point mate just trying to decipher from your post where this info came from...

No problem, i guess i could have posted, right from the horses mouth, but we all know that horses cant talk, that is, unless its the famous mr ed.

Simply stay tuned. As we all know, during elections, tens of millions if not hundreds float around. I guess you should also keep on eye on or look at who accompanied U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton back in July when she visited Athens, only to be followed by another non official delegation from Russia. So yes, there is a massive power struggle on who will acquire the energy reserves under the Mediterranean , Ionian sea. This also indicates the most likely scenario outcome since Israel is know officially drilling for natural gas side by side with Cyprus and as we all have come to see that Turkey is like the kid kicking sand in all direction but has no place to go. Lets not forget that Mr. Obama warned and made it crystal clear to Turkey that Israel has no hesitation in sinking any commercial or military vessel that approaches the rig without prior consent while in a meeting last week. So in short, yes, the gloves are off and now we have the big boys playing the big leagues.

Some say the Libyan crisis was a disguise to move NATO strength in the Mediterranean to deter Russia from actively creating a default within the new energy basin. We are sure or should i say, perhaps some are even aware that the Nordic company who deals only with deep sea oil and gas drilling has supplied a detailed map of the Med basin some years ago with the agreement that when ever and who ever drills there, that they will be called to conduct the structure and drilling part of the agreement. If you search closely most U.S. and U.K. oil and gas platforms have one common Nordic company as their sole and primary initial stage of drilling. Yes its the same company that supplied Greece with the detailed map, free of charge...so to speak.

Its the big leagues.

edit:

Perhaps i should have added this little gem for the ats community.

Originally posted by pianopraze
There is a lot more going on than that article mentions... well it does mention it without explaining here:

Opinion polls in Greece show that most people do not support the austerity deal. The most recent general strike, on 19-20 October, brought tens of thousands out on to the streets nationwide.

This article shows SOME of the "austerity" measures:

These are some of the austerity measures planned.

TAXATION

Taxes will increase by 2.32bn euros this year, with additional taxes of 3.38bn euros in 2012, 152m euros in 2013 and 699m euros in 2014.
A solidarity levy of between 1% and 5% of income will be levied on households. It will be raised twice next year.
The tax-free threshold for income tax will be lowered from 12,000 euros to 5000 euros, rather than the original plan of 8,000 euros.
There will be higher property taxes.
VAT rates are to rise: the 19% rate will increase to 23%, 11% becomes 13%, and 5.5% will increase to 6.5%.
The VAT rate for restaurants and bars will rise to 23% from 13%.
Luxury levies will be introduced on yachts, pools and cars.
Some tax exemptions will be scrapped.
Excise taxes on fuel, cigarettes and alcohol will rise by one third.
Special levies on profitable firms, high-value properties and people with high incomes will be introduced.

....

PRIVATISATION

The government aims to raise 50bn euros from privatisations by 2015, including:
Selling stakes this year in the betting monopoly OPAP, the lender Hellenic Postbank, port operators Piraeus Port and Thessaloniki Port as well as Thessaloniki Water.
It has agreed to sell 10% of Hellenic Telecom to Deutsche Telekom for about 400m euros.
Next year, the government plans to sell stakes in Athens Water, refiner Hellenic Petroleum, electricity utility PPC, lender ATEbank as well as ports, airports, motorway concessions, state land and mining rights.
It plans further sales to raise 7bn euros in 2013, 13bn euros in 2014 and 15bn euros in 2015.
LABOUR MARKET REFORM

The law will make it easier for companies to cut their payroll costs. It will do this by suspending industry-wide wage bargaining..

See article for more of the measures. Typically "austerity" measures include draconian taxes like seen here, PLUS they give all the nations wealth (natural resources) and tax away IN PERPETUITY! i.e. forever!

The IMF (especially with Soros) go into a country and set up a government that takes on too much debt then "save" the country with these "austerity" measures.

More countries should do like Iceland and jail these politicians and banksters while giving the middle finger to the IMF.

Excellent insight and further research- if Greece adheres to the bailout suggestion they're cutting their own throat! also, by the way your paintings are excellent and when I'm in a better financial position (just assembled my first ice hockey kit!) I want to buy a print of the 'Solarity' painting..it's awesome.

reply to post by cerebralassassins

Thanks for the further insight, I wouldn't be surprised either if elections were called soon either. Where did you get this info from?

You know what this reminds me of? Iceland!

The population basically said F you to the bankers and the bankers were almost aghast that the people would have the nerve to stand up to them.

I laughed my butt off when I heard about this. He basically just sprung it on everybody and who was the among most aghast? Greece's Finance Minister, Merkl, and Sarkozy. In other words, the money and the Illuminati figureheads. (In fact I interpret the beast with the 10 crowned heads from revelations to be the leaders of the G-10 but that's for another time.)

Perhaps this will be the straw that broke the camels back, because you know which way the referendum will go. As opposed to Iceland, the future of the Euro is up to the voice of the people-a lot more is at stake in a Greek F you to the bankers.

Papandreou needs to watch his back from here on out. His actions have made him a target of people who have proven that they can assassinate either in character or in body with near impunity. I suggest they hold the referendum as soon as possible.

And to the Bankers, to quote The Simpson's Nelson Muntz: "Ha Haw"

reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics


Exactly what information are you referring to.

It is not just the bankers that will take a huge loss though, it will be anyone that has bought greek bonds and finds out they are worthless papper, that is if the government defaults! Cutting 50% of the debt sounds good but the strings attached means selling any and every public enterprise of what was left. Basically good bye socialism and good morning capitalism.

Yet some ignorant idiots in america(especially the tea party type) fear socialism and/or communism. How can their be a socialist world dictatorship if everything belongs to private hands? Telephone, electricity, public transporation(buses, rail, airplanes), water and sewage, sea ports, air ports, highways, libraries, universities, parks, hospitals, etc.

The greeks made the mistake of trying to live beyond their means because no one told them what would happen if they continued down this path from the begining. They lived a wreckful existance of few taxes and maximum expenditures. A classic example was the 2004 olympic games that cost the nation billions of euros in stadiums, subways, airports, security equipment, etc and now that stuff is rotting away because no one is taking advantage of those opportunities.

They have made so many mistakes the last 30 years its really a miracle the government has not defaulted 5 years ago, but european money from germany and france kept it afloat. I don't think the free ride will continue much longer though. I guess enough is enough. They should have been more careful!

I agree, it is surprising that Greece has made it this far..

They really are in a no-win situation. If they go with the proposed bailout solution, Greece owns none of their resources or infrastructure. If they don't go with it they lose EU membership and will have absolutely nothing by the way of support, stability or relent from internal turmoil.

Where are those 300 warriors sworn to an oath in defense of Greece?

reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics


I guess you will see my thread regarding the set date in Alternative Breaking News , i guess Mr. Ed can talk

Originally posted by cerebralassassins
reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics

 

I guess you will see my thread regarding the set date in Alternative Breaking News , i guess Mr. Ed can talk

edit on 2-11-2011 by cerebralassassins because: (no reason given)

Mr. Ed doesn't know the difference between a referendum and an election then...

Originally posted by Pirateofpsychonautics

Originally posted by cerebralassassins
reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics

 

I guess you will see my thread regarding the set date in Alternative Breaking News , i guess Mr. Ed can talk

edit on 2-11-2011 by cerebralassassins because: (no reason given)

Mr. Ed doesn't know the difference between a referendum and an election then...

I said elections, would i be so forward to say that if the vote is no then its an instantaneous step down as prime minister and elections are to be held. So on a technical side, you are correct, now if you step back, and view it on a spherical level then that means its one in the same.

Originally posted by cerebralassassins

Originally posted by Pirateofpsychonautics

Originally posted by cerebralassassins
reply to post by Pirateofpsychonautics

 

I guess you will see my thread regarding the set date in Alternative Breaking News , i guess Mr. Ed can talk

edit on 2-11-2011 by cerebralassassins because: (no reason given)

Mr. Ed doesn't know the difference between a referendum and an election then...

I said elections, would i be so forward to say that if the vote is no then its an instantaneous step down as prime minister and elections are to be held. So on a technical side, you are correct, now if you step back, and view it on a spherical level then that means its one in the same.

I don't care about your spherical level. Elections are NOT happening in the timeline you suggested- referendums are.

Even if the Greek people vote for not remaining part of the EU you can not conclude that elections will be called. Papandreou is giving this crucial decision to those who most deserve a say...THE GREEK PEOPLE.

If I was a Greek I would put my full support behind him for not bowing down to and adhering to external powers alternatively, giving his people a say.

George Bush was at Goldman Sachs HQ in Manhatan. OWS protesters showed up to confront him. Keith Olbermann I guess confirmed he was there. The thing I want to know is what was he doing there. Goldman Sachs was deep into Greek debt. Gary D. Cohn Has played a big part in Greek debt. And tonight Bush was at his office. Some thing big must be about to happen. The crashing of the EU? The break up of the EU?

www.nytimes.com...

The bankers, led by Goldman’s president, Gary D. Cohn, held out a financing instrument that would have pushed debt from Greece’s health care system far into the future, much as when strapped homeowners take out second mortgages to pay off their credit cards.

It had worked before. In 2001, just after Greece was admitted to Europe’s monetary union, Goldman helped the government quietly borrow billions, people familiar with the transaction said. That deal, hidden from public view because it was treated as a currency trade rather than a loan, helped Athens to meet Europe’s deficit rules while continuing to spend beyond its means.