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Greek referendum ignites German anger

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posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:23 AM

Prime Minister George Papandreou's shock decision to call a referendum on Greece's bailout drew veiled threats from Germany on Tuesday and hammered markets edgy over the euro zone crisis.

European politicians complained that Athens was trying to wriggle out of the rescue deal agreed only last week, concerned not so much about the fate of Greece as the possibly dire consequences for the entire currency union.

One senior German parliamentarian suggested the euro zone might have to cast Athens adrift, cutting off its aid lifeline and allowing the nation to default.

Others were stunned by Papandreou's apparent bolt from the blue on Monday on the plan for a 130 billion-euro bailout and a 50-percent write-down on Greece's huge debt, which has unleashed fury among Greeks due to its price -- yet more austerity.

But they also urged caution as the exact question to be put to the Greek people remains unknown. EU officials said they had yet to be officially notified of the vote.

The reaction from Germany which funds a large part of European Union rescues for Greece as it struggles with a huge debt, was of scarcely disguised fury.

A leader in German Chancellor Angela Merkel's center-right coalition said he was "irritated" by Papandreou's announcement and said the euro zone would have to consider turning off the flow of money which has kept Greece afloat over the past year.

"This sounds to me like someone is trying to wriggle out of what was agreed -- a strange thing to do," said Rainer Bruederle, parliamentary floor leader for the Free Democrats and a former German economy minister.

"One can only do one thing: make the preparations for the eventuality that there is a state insolvency in Greece and if it doesn't fulfill the agreements, then the point will have been reached where the money is turned off."

The Greek PM is handing his fate over to the Greek people by the look of it, probably as he tires from passing waves of fresh austerity upon his own people. Either that or he is committing Greece to a Eurozone suicide, probably not a bad thing.

So now we read Germany is reacting to the referendum with anger. Could get interesting from here. Let's see what other European Union leaders have to say here.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:34 AM
After the two biggest wars in history the germans can shut the hell up.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:37 AM
reply to post by Garfee

It isn't that simple though is it? I feel sorry for the Germans AND the Greeks in this. The Greeks as they are suffering (but then it is largely self inflicted by serious mismanagement and total lack of taxes as a nation).

The Germans as they are having to bail out the Greeks - at the end of the day, if your nation was paying out hundreds of billions in extra taxes to save another country and they threw it back in your face, how would you feel?
edit on 1-11-2011 by Flavian because: spelling

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:38 AM
reply to post by surrealist

Greece is doing a good job .....payback for history.....

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:39 AM
reply to post by Flavian

My nation paid a lot more than just money and there was a lot of money thrown at germany. Sorry, but it has to be said - it's just their turn to actually help.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:46 AM
reply to post by Garfee

As did mine and to be honest that is all history now. Are the current inhabitants of Germany responsible for past generations? Think hard about that as that has ramifications in every single country on the planet.

You are in Australia right? How about if your nation lent Indonesia $100 billion Aus dollars to prevent it going bankrupt, meaning your personal tax contributions went up around $500 per year. You have started paying for this but then they decide they do not want the money and are prepared to default. All well and good but the problem remains that your nation has already committed to this action on the financial markets, meaning that even with the default, you would still have to pay this increased tax contribution and there is no long term benefit.

Like i said, this is a difficult situation. If it was only rich private megalomaniacs that would suffer then fine but it is all of us through taxes

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:49 AM
The greek PM is taking the road less traveled and letting the people decide to default,
clever I think. he knows he'll have revolution unless the people feel that they have a say,
If it fails he has a legitimate excuse to leave the Euro-zone, and defalt. in the long run
it's better for greece to default outright, than to enslave it's people for generations, with
little chance of getting out. a good political move but probably not the one germany and
the rest of the world want to hear. i hope the peoples voices will be heard.
and well germany can jam it there banned for invading on monetary grounds, sucked in
to the banks for not looking at what the investment looked like before they lent.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:52 AM
reply to post by Flavian

Please don't take my cander for lack of understanding the situation. I am angry that the german chancellor, recently was alleged to have hinted at what might happen should germany get really angry. Well, I'm sorry but at the slightest hint of that they should be bombed out of existence once and for all because the quite obviously can not be trusted.

I would be very upset if cash was not paid back but not all investments pay off.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:55 AM
reply to post by wondera

I kind of agree but the thing is it kind of smacks of that was Greece was always going to do anyway. So why wait so long and after so much money has been committed? That is more bad management by the Greeks (admittedly they definitely did not create the problem as they should never been allowed into the Eurozone).

It was obvious months and months ago that Greece would never be able to get itself out of this mess. They should have done the honourable thing then and not expected other countries to pay their bills for them. To be honest, the more i think about it, the angrier i am getting with the Greeks. It is all very well protesting about how unfair the austerity measures are but the simple fact is they do not have any money. Are we supposed to pay for them? Default and leave the Euro - do they think that will magically make money appear for them? They still have to get their heads around the fact that they have to pay taxes if they want services......

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:59 AM
reply to post by Garfee

That is true and one aspect that i hadn't considered. However, wasn't that comment after another night of long protracted dialogue? It doesn't excuse it but if so it does give it a bit more context - we are all capable of saying stupid things when tired, stressed and crabby - that is human nature

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:00 AM
If i was germany, I'd be angry too. and as for WW1+2 germany doesn't have the fists to go with their balls.
But as germany is the butt kicking economy in europe i say let them be angry.
germany has paid for their past mistakes so lets not rub it in mkay.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:08 AM
reply to post by listerofsmeg

I only stated that they probably ought not to have implied something would happen from their side, and also that history shows they can not be trusted. It happened twice. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

How about if the germans looked at all that money of theirs as ours that they so graciously accepted over the years to rebuild?

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:11 AM
Hold a grudge much?

Maybe you should worry more about what hat Gillard is not wearing and let the big boys sort out their own problems.

If the Greeks would even bother to pay their taxes they might not even be in this mess, give them the arse I say
edit on 1-11-2011 by pazcat because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:12 AM
reply to post by Garfee

Well to be fair, most of it came from America. And although America may be Britains' baby, i believe there are more people there now of Germanic descent than British descent - if they were fine with rebuilding the 'fatherland' then who are we to judge?

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:18 AM
reply to post by Flavian

Where it all came from is not the point, they are incredibly ungrateful and seem to have a very short memory.

To the other member who accuses me of holding a grudge, My grandparents were german and emmigrated in the 1950's.

Everyone seems to want the system to change, well the greeks are about to trial it and all we can do is whinge about how it's going to hurt the current system.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:25 AM
Someone needs to be totally stupid to actually believe the current economic situation is self inflicted in Greece. The whole economic situation globaly is controled by few to make money on the backs of the many.

Greeks didn't make any more mistakes as any other mediterenean country.

MAYBE EU could offer the border security against the "enemy" neighbouring us. but nooooo.... who will then buy the FRENCH and GERMAN weapons?

freaking hypocrites go hang yourselves

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:25 AM
Papandreaou the PM just wants to leave office gracefully...

history will look favor on the man who voiced the peoples' anger as one of his last acts...

self-serving inho

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:29 AM
Markets Plunge On Shock Greek Referendum Call

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:44 AM
reply to post by Alda1981

Actually, you are a bit off the mark with this statement. Greece should never have been accepted into the Euro as it did not meet the criteria. That is 100% fact and i agree with you on this point.

However, Greece has always had a problem with tax avoidance. They have a massively bloated state system and they do not collect enough in taxes to pay for it - that is also 100% fact. One of the towns that has had the austerity measures imposed still only managed to collect 18,000 euros in taxes for the past year - that is a TOWN not an individual from that town.

This is what makes Greece such a difficult issue. There are clearly many problems there not of their own making. However, there are also problems that are of their own making. The problem is as i have said above, it would not be the mega rich taking a hit, it would be all of us normal taxpayers that are struggling enough to get by ourselves.

The real question should be, how in hell do we all get out if this mess?
edit on 1-11-2011 by Flavian because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:53 AM
reply to post by Flavian

I guess the greeks need to sort their **** out if they are that useless with taxes but I wonder if it's not a good idea just to let them have their vote and if things fall apart, just let it and see what happens?

Sometimes when a structure is weakened so much, even though the facade may be intact the whole thing needs to come down and be rebuilt.

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